Discussion
Hainey said:
Ah ok, fair enough. I do have some experience of martial arts but there are enough ninjas on here without my tuppence going in as well.
I was just keen to see why it was so flippantly dismissed, that's all.
Just google Master Ken.I was just keen to see why it was so flippantly dismissed, that's all.
And ALWAYS re-stomp the groin!
Edited by Wildfire on Thursday 12th January 16:47
Liokault said:
Hainey said:
Hoofy said:
Krav Maga is bulls
t.
What makes you say that Darren?t.I say that as when I studied it in the late 90's (and no bugger had ever heard of it then, my trainer was an IDF trainer) it had certain useful core IA drills. Ten or so years later I went along almost by accident to a demonstration of it, and the chap who was taking the demonstration was horrendous. It was nothing at all like the discipline I studied. He would have been destroyed by any competent MMA or boxing guy.
As for usefulness, well as I admitted once in another thread I was the subject of an attempted murder by multiple attackers many moons ago. If you ever meet me you'll note the horrendous scar. I lived through that and if I hadn't known what I did from KM as it was the edged weapon IA drills I used then I doubt it would have worked out that way. Who knows though? I don't and I try not to think about it.
To go back to my first point, I now do combatives and KM was built on the first principles of combatives before it diluted into the housewives martial art it gets punted around as these days. I'm in my 40's now and combatives works well for me and what my body can do (and what it cant) anymore. But then I started at 5 with Judo so almost 40 years of getting a good skelping on a regular basis (I never said I was any good
) means I have to know my limitations or else I'm necking brufen and walking like a tick tock tin robot for a week.All said though I think as long as you do something, anything, and you enjoy it and realise your not invincible then that's what counts.
Hainey said:
I dont want to get dragged into a debate because it would be pointless, but I think one of the issues with KM is that when it became popular it became greatly diluted away from what it actually is and its core principles.
I say that as when I studied it in the late 90's (and no bugger had ever heard of it then, my trainer was an IDF trainer) it had certain useful core IA drills. Ten or so years later I went along almost by accident to a demonstration of it, and the chap who was taking the demonstration was horrendous. It was nothing at all like the discipline I studied. He would have been destroyed by any competent MMA or boxing guy.
As for usefulness, well as I admitted once in another thread I was the subject of an attempted murder by multiple attackers many moons ago. If you ever meet me you'll note the horrendous scar. I lived through that and if I hadn't known what I did from KM as it was the edged weapon IA drills I used then I doubt it would have worked out that way. Who knows though? I don't and I try not to think about it.
To go back to my first point, I now do combatives and KM was built on the first principles of combatives before it diluted into the housewives martial art it gets punted around as these days. I'm in my 40's now and combatives works well for me and what my body can do (and what it cant) anymore. But then I started at 5 with Judo so almost 40 years of getting a good skelping on a regular basis (I never said I was any good) means I have to know my limitations or else I'm necking brufen and walking like a tick tock tin robot for a week.
All said though I think as long as you do something, anything, and you enjoy it and realise your not invincible then that's what counts.
Very interesting, and you raise a good point about the dilution, of stuff vs the hardcore stuff. I've been (halfheartedly) looking into places in London that teach it, and trying to see who has the most direct levels of training going back to the original people. I vaguely recall going to see a demo many years ago in London, but it looked a bit naff. I know there's some teachers that teach who are ex-israeli military, but they're a lot further from me, and again, who knows how good they are. I just think its a very interesting looking style, and it does I suppose have the distinction of being properly 'battle tested'. I was at a wedding in israel years ago and obviously there everyone does military service and chatted about it to one of the guys there. He said something along the lines of 'I do karate to keep fit, I do krav maga to keep my life". Mind you, his daily routine was a bit different to walking back from waitrose at 8pm.I say that as when I studied it in the late 90's (and no bugger had ever heard of it then, my trainer was an IDF trainer) it had certain useful core IA drills. Ten or so years later I went along almost by accident to a demonstration of it, and the chap who was taking the demonstration was horrendous. It was nothing at all like the discipline I studied. He would have been destroyed by any competent MMA or boxing guy.
As for usefulness, well as I admitted once in another thread I was the subject of an attempted murder by multiple attackers many moons ago. If you ever meet me you'll note the horrendous scar. I lived through that and if I hadn't known what I did from KM as it was the edged weapon IA drills I used then I doubt it would have worked out that way. Who knows though? I don't and I try not to think about it.
To go back to my first point, I now do combatives and KM was built on the first principles of combatives before it diluted into the housewives martial art it gets punted around as these days. I'm in my 40's now and combatives works well for me and what my body can do (and what it cant) anymore. But then I started at 5 with Judo so almost 40 years of getting a good skelping on a regular basis (I never said I was any good
) means I have to know my limitations or else I'm necking brufen and walking like a tick tock tin robot for a week.All said though I think as long as you do something, anything, and you enjoy it and realise your not invincible then that's what counts.
On a lighter note, there's a great book, well worth a read "Angry white pyjamas" about an Oxford scholar learning jujitsu with the tokyo riot police for a year...
https://www.amazon.co.uk/Angry-White-Pyjamas-Oxfor...
Regarding dilution, Japanese Ju-Jitsu is the same with some very good and some very st clubs/instructors/organisations out there.
Same could be said with BJJ as well, with some clubs seemingly promoting on time served and others via success in competiton. Then youve got old school instructors complaining about it becoming to soft and away from its 'roots' as it becomes more popular and sport orientated
t clubs/instructors/organisations out there. Same could be said with BJJ as well, with some clubs seemingly promoting on time served and others via success in competiton. Then youve got old school instructors complaining about it becoming to soft and away from its 'roots' as it becomes more popular and sport orientated
HotJambalaya said:
Hoofy said:
Most martial arts have that "distinction".
True I suppose, though mainly for jitsu's then do's? I suppose I should have said modern battle tested!
If it was about "modern battle testing" then it's not an issue really as I don't remember the last time I saw a chav walking along Epsom high street threatening people with an Uzi.
Anyway, I suspect the likes of Geoff Thompson would kick my arse into the next decade regardless of whether he did Tae Kwon Do, BJJ or KM. In other words, it's the attitude you take when the s
t hits the fan. If you learn KM but are still "beta" (for want of a better word), then you might as well invest in running lessons.As an aside, I wonder how KM would look in 300 years' time. Coloured kippahs, perhaps, white for beginners, black for experts?
Its funny you say that, I remember being at a talk by a guy that had taken a 5th dan grading of taekwondo in korea, and his teacher had said to him much earlier on, "I'm going to teach you the secret to never loosing a fight in your life"
He said, "I got really excited and thought to myself, this is it! I'm going to learn the death touch!!, 'what is this great secret master?'
and his teacher replied, "I'm going to make you so fit that you'll be able to run away from anybody"
He said, "I got really excited and thought to myself, this is it! I'm going to learn the death touch!!, 'what is this great secret master?'
and his teacher replied, "I'm going to make you so fit that you'll be able to run away from anybody"
One of our instructors has a similar attitude that if you can do enough to basically get away from an attacker that's far better than sticking around!
Had a good session last night whereby I was in a position to teach some of the newer guys early parts of the syllabus which I did years ago but will be tested on again in following gradings.
Had a good session last night whereby I was in a position to teach some of the newer guys early parts of the syllabus which I did years ago but will be tested on again in following gradings.
Thread's gone quiet for a while so I thought I'd post the a quick vid of the best in the world vs somebody who is clearly no mug. Not strictly to do with health, but ever so slightly humbling nonetheless... 
So much going on in this video beyond the obvious. A joy to watch. Been on the wrong side of this too many times
https://www.instagram.com/p/BPaB9belKrB/?taken-by=...
So much going on in this video beyond the obvious. A joy to watch. Been on the wrong side of this too many times https://www.instagram.com/p/BPaB9belKrB/?taken-by=...
ben5575 said:
Thread's gone quiet for a while so I thought I'd post the a quick vid of the best in the world vs somebody who is clearly no mug. Not strictly to do with health, but ever so slightly humbling nonetheless... So much going on in this video beyond the obvious. A joy to watch. Been on the wrong side of this too many times
https://www.instagram.com/p/BPaB9belKrB/?taken-by=...
I can totally empathize with the bearded guy....... So much going on in this video beyond the obvious. A joy to watch. Been on the wrong side of this too many times https://www.instagram.com/p/BPaB9belKrB/?taken-by=...
ben5575 said:
Thread's gone quiet for a while so I thought I'd post the a quick vid of the best in the world vs somebody who is clearly no mug. Not strictly to do with health, but ever so slightly humbling nonetheless... So much going on in this video beyond the obvious. A joy to watch. Been on the wrong side of this too many times
https://www.instagram.com/p/BPaB9belKrB/?taken-by=...
That question mark kick (or whatever you want to call it) freaks me out, I don't even see how it's possible, makes my hips, knees and brain hurt just watching it. So much going on in this video beyond the obvious. A joy to watch. Been on the wrong side of this too many times https://www.instagram.com/p/BPaB9belKrB/?taken-by=...
Not a great session for me last night in rolling. I had a heavy guy in half guard lockdown and he insisted on attacking the Americana, when that failed attempt Ezekiel...and repeat...over...and over..and over.
He eventually caught the Americana and I was forced to tap, my initial feelings were of annoyance at his persistence in progressing with an attack that clearly wasn't the most efficient thing to do followed by annoyance at myself for getting ground down and caught with it.
With the benefit of thought and clarity he did what people are only going to do in competitions and I should have capitalized on his focus at that single submission and worked my way into full guard.
Definitely a learning experience for me.
He eventually caught the Americana and I was forced to tap, my initial feelings were of annoyance at his persistence in progressing with an attack that clearly wasn't the most efficient thing to do followed by annoyance at myself for getting ground down and caught with it.
With the benefit of thought and clarity he did what people are only going to do in competitions and I should have capitalized on his focus at that single submission and worked my way into full guard.
Definitely a learning experience for me.
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