High fat diets - anyone else do them?

[joshcowin]

oldbanger said:

I love chorizo, but unfortunately a lot of preserved meat has milk protein in it. Argh!

That's a shame!

What are you doing for fibre intake? I struggle to get any decent amount in!

I have friends who make their own biltong and jerky!!

They make their own dryers to keep the costs down, its very good stuff!

[oldbanger]

joshcowin said:

What are you doing for fibre intake? I struggle to get any decent amount in!

Green veg and salad

[J4CKO]

Defcon5 said:

I'd struggle without carbs, bread, rice, pasta or potatoes are in pretty much every meal!

You think you will but once you adapt to life without them, it isnt a big deal, I am not religiously following this but am mainly avoiding bread on a regular basis.

[AlexC1981]

oldbanger said:

I am not sure what nutrients I am missing by avoiding dairy products and trying to reduce extra/hidden carbs from nuts, chocolate, diary subsitutes etc.

Assuming no hidden carbs in processed meats, nuts etc, 20g of carb per day equates to something like this, for example

50g fresh spinach (2.8g)
1 medium tomato (4.9g)
50g cucumber (1.8g)
50g olives (3g)
100g cauliflower (5g)
5 asparagus spears (2.5g)

I have no problems getting enough veg, the issue is that many things like nuts or avocado, even salmon, are described as high fat, when in reality they really aren't, not for the purposes of an 70-80% fat diet. So whilst I can eat them for their protein or carbs (and vitamins/minerals), they are not going to help me get my fat ratio up very much.

So far the only things I've found other than very fatty cuts of meat (but I've still got to watch protein intake), and just eating/drinking butter and coconut oil, are coconut yoghurt and processed pork sausage, both of which have added starches so have the unfortunate trade off that I have to reduce vegetable intake to compensate. Eggs are great, but actually contain a little carbohydrate, which needs to be offset the same.

It might be that given I can't take cream, cheese etc, that I just have to get the extra fat via butter, olive oil and coconut oil, but I have been wondering if there was anything else. I have been considering pemmican (basically beef tallow cake) but it seems like a complete and utter faff to be honest, especially without a proper dehydrator.

I am no dietician, but using myfitnesspal the above veg + say 15 rashers of streaky bacon? Gives you:

Plenty vitamin A.
About half the daily recommended amount of vitamin C.
A quarter of the recommended amount of potassium.
A very small about of fibre.
Practically no iron.
Practically no calcium.

I suppose it's ok if you take supplements too. I take a vitamin+minerals supplement and an omega 3 capsule.

How many calories are you eating in total? The veg you listed above amounts to 106 calories. How much meat are you having with that? Even 15 rashers of streaky bacon would only be another 615 calories, plus dressing for the veg - 100 calories? That's only 821 calories a day. If you are only eating that much now, you are going to pile it on when you go back to normal eating.

Sorry if I sound like I am criticising, I only know what I have picked up online, but I find this a really interesting topic and I like to learn more about nutrition and what and how people eat.

[oldbanger]

AlexC1981 said:

oldbanger said:

I am not sure what nutrients I am missing by avoiding dairy products and trying to reduce extra/hidden carbs from nuts, chocolate, diary subsitutes etc.

Assuming no hidden carbs in processed meats, nuts etc, 20g of carb per day equates to something like this, for example

50g fresh spinach (2.8g)
1 medium tomato (4.9g)
50g cucumber (1.8g)
50g olives (3g)
100g cauliflower (5g)
5 asparagus spears (2.5g)

I have no problems getting enough veg, the issue is that many things like nuts or avocado, even salmon, are described as high fat, when in reality they really aren't, not for the purposes of an 70-80% fat diet. So whilst I can eat them for their protein or carbs (and vitamins/minerals), they are not going to help me get my fat ratio up very much.

So far the only things I've found other than very fatty cuts of meat (but I've still got to watch protein intake), and just eating/drinking butter and coconut oil, are coconut yoghurt and processed pork sausage, both of which have added starches so have the unfortunate trade off that I have to reduce vegetable intake to compensate. Eggs are great, but actually contain a little carbohydrate, which needs to be offset the same.

It might be that given I can't take cream, cheese etc, that I just have to get the extra fat via butter, olive oil and coconut oil, but I have been wondering if there was anything else. I have been considering pemmican (basically beef tallow cake) but it seems like a complete and utter faff to be honest, especially without a proper dehydrator.

I am no dietician, but using myfitnesspal the above veg + say 15 rashers of streaky bacon? Gives you:

Plenty vitamin A.
About half the daily recommended amount of vitamin C.
A quarter of the recommended amount of potassium.
A very small about of fibre.
Practically no iron.
Practically no calcium.

I suppose it's ok if you take supplements too. I take a vitamin+minerals supplement and an omega 3 capsule.

How many calories are you eating in total? The veg you listed above amounts to 106 calories. How much meat are you having with that? Even 15 rashers of streaky bacon would only be another 615 calories, plus dressing for the veg - 100 calories? That's only 821 calories a day. If you are only eating that much now, you are going to pile it on when you go back to normal eating.

Sorry if I sound like I am criticising, I only know what I have picked up online, but I find this a really interesting topic and I like to learn more about nutrition and what and how people eat.

I am getting around 1700-2000 calories per day.

I think what you've missed is that when I say high fat diet, I mean high fat diet. I mean at least 75% calories from fat. I am aiming for about 20g carbs, 85g protein, 150g+ fat.

I couldn't eat that much bacon. I love it, but it's quite salty. However, I eat quite a few eggs, I'd say on average 3 a day (some days more, some days less). I also regularly eat bone in fish (e.g. mackerel). I am definitely not short of calcium, in fast I stopped supplementing many years ago as I was worried about overdoing it. My nails are rock hard.

I do still supplement, but not regularly and only with vit D3 and magnesium.

If not intermittent fasting, a typical menu would be something like

Breakfast - Black coffee, butter and coconut oil smoothie (bulletproof coffee)
Lunch - Eggs with prosciutto, green salad and olives, with olive oil
Dinner - Fatty cut of meat, with green veg, extra butter

I am not going to go back to normal eating, by the way. I haven't touched pizza, bread or pasta for more than a decade. I ate some biscuits whilst drunk in 2013, and I still remember the experience. I will eventually go back to moderate carb either because I've actually lost what I want to, or I'm fed up of dieting.

Edited by oldbanger on Tuesday 7th February 23:55

[dirty boy]

I used to advocate the low carb diet (10% of calories from carbs) certainly lost a lot of weight doing it last year.

However, this year, i've adjusted so I'm 35% protein, 35% fats and 30% carbs.

Whilst i'm still losing weight at the moment (calorie restriction) my performances in the gym are much much better, so my muscle mass retention and strength gains are far outweighing the slighly slower weight loss (which ultimately, is due in no small part to varying water retention - dependent on timing)

Whilst I too will agree, I did have plenty of energy and could cycle all day, that's a heart rate thing and what zone you're operating in.

Start to throw 200kg deadlifts and five-a-side sprint recovery type stuff and my stats this year are miles above what I was doing last year.

Calories are king.

Nice to have a lifestyle this year where I can pretty much eat what I like too, not putting the chips on the wife's plate or not ordering something...I just adjust.

[joshcowin]

Thats fine dirty boy, but it wouldnt work for some!

If I ate 30% carbs even on 1300 cals a day I would find it hard to loose weight!

I am currently eating between 30 and 40g of carb a day and although have lost strength I feel fine in the gym and know if I was going for a pr or a super hard session I could add a few more carbs the day before!

Anyone tried carb cycling?

[AlexC1981]

oldbanger said:

I ate some biscuits whilst drunk in 2013, and I still remember the experience

Was it a good or bad experience?

Eating 1800 calories of meat, fat and veg must be very filling, if boring. As you are not doing much exercise, drop it to 1550 and you should lose a couple of pound a week and not go hungry. Has this not worked for you before... is that why you eat how you do?

[grumbledoak]

Macadamia nuts are highest in fat but they are pricey.

Peanut butter isn't too bad - get one made only from peanuts and salt(*). 100g (about half a jar) of "meridian" is 46g fat for 12g carbs.

---

* i.e. what peanut butter should be made of, not the gloop based rubbish they try to fob us off with.

[oldbanger]

AlexC1981 said:

oldbanger said:

I ate some biscuits whilst drunk in 2013, and I still remember the experience

Was it a good or bad experience?

Eating 1800 calories of meat, fat and veg must be very filling, if boring. As you are not doing much exercise, drop it to 1550 and you should lose a couple of pound a week and not go hungry. Has this not worked for you before... is that why you eat how you do?

I am teetotal now, it was that bad!

I have been on various low fat, low calorie diets since I was a kid, initially instigated by my parents. I have only ever lost weight through low carbing and now I am an old fart I seem to need to be stricter than before.

[oldbanger]

grumbledoak said:

Macadamia nuts are highest in fat but they are pricey.

Peanut butter isn't too bad - get one made only from peanuts and salt(*). 100g (about half a jar) of "meridian" is 46g fat for 12g carbs.

---

* i.e. what peanut butter should be made of, not the gloop based rubbish they try to fob us off with.

Thanks I had forgotten about macadamia nuts. They are lovely, if a bit hard on the teeth

Meridian makes a nice almond butter too

[dirty boy]

joshcowin said:

Thats fine dirty boy, but it wouldnt work for some!

If I ate 30% carbs even on 1300 cals a day I would find it hard to loose weight!

I am currently eating between 30 and 40g of carb a day and although have lost strength I feel fine in the gym and know if I was going for a pr or a super hard session I could add a few more carbs the day before!

Anyone tried carb cycling?

Lose weight or fat?

Don't underestimate the affect of carbs on water retention. I'm pretty sure I could drop carbs completely for a few days and lose a few pounds on the same calorie intake...up them to say 150grams again and I'll see the weight back on in a few days

[joshcowin]

dirty boy said:

Lose weight or fat?

Don't underestimate the affect of carbs on water retention. I'm pretty sure I could drop carbs completely for a few days and lose a few pounds on the same calorie intake...up them to say 150grams again and I'll see the weight back on in a few days

Well my aim is to loose fat!

Yes I completely agree with the water retention, in my first week I lost 7 pounds that has slowed to a healthier 2 pounds a week now.

[dirty boy]

joshcowin said:

dirty boy said:

Lose weight or fat?

Don't underestimate the affect of carbs on water retention. I'm pretty sure I could drop carbs completely for a few days and lose a few pounds on the same calorie intake...up them to say 150grams again and I'll see the weight back on in a few days

Well my aim is to loose fat!

Yes I completely agree with the water retention, in my first week I lost 7 pounds that has slowed to a healthier 2 pounds a week now.

I think you're too focussed on the breakdown of what you're eating.

If calories in are less than calories expended, you'll lose weight. Consistency is key.

[joshcowin]

dirty boy said:

I think you're too focussed on the breakdown of what you're eating.

If calories in are less than calories expended, you'll lose weight. Consistency is key.

Honestly I have tried this for years now, I could eat 30%carbs 50%protein and 20% fat and I would not loose weight say eating 1700 cals a day!

As soon as I come off the carbs to say 30g-40g a day I start to loose weight steadily!

I honestly do not believe it is as easy as saying calories in vs calories out, yes easy to say and should in theory work, but in my experience it is not the case.

[grumbledoak]

joshcowin said:

I honestly do not believe it is as easy as saying calories in vs calories out,

It isn't. You are not a bomb calorimeter.

[oldbanger]

Interestingly, as I've increased the amount of saturated fats like butter and coconut oil, I am really going off vegetable oil. So much so that I've not been able to eat mayo and have even started to feel queasy going past fast food places.

I have a recipe for bacon fat mayo, but I never seem to have enough bacon fat to make a decent portion, and topping it up with chicken fat or olive oil have been total disasters.

I had noticed the aversion to vegetable oil (and it's smell) the first time I went strict low carb - and also how strongly sugar smells, though the awareness of sugar is something that's stayed with me ever since.

I am going to have to cut back on butter though - I can tolerate a bit but at probably 5 or 6 times my usual intake, I have developed arthritis in my right hand and the given my problems with dairy the most plausible cause of any inflammation right now would be the butter.

[Sir Lord Poopie]

Being a stone or so too heavy for my liking I'm going to give this Atklins diet a go.

[Insanity Magnet]

I went high fat / low carb halfway through 2015. By Christmas 2015 my weight had dropped from 95 to 75 kg and BP had dropped from 140/100 on betas and Ramipril down to 110/70.

My weight hovered 75-77Kg until just before Christams last year, when I succumbed to the pestering of my OH to eat more grains / veg and less meat / fat. (She's a professional ecoweenie with views on vegetarianism, animal welfare and energy inputs to raise meat). I immediately put on 5Kg and started to experience a load of nasty spots on my limbs. My mood, which had finally been nice and calm for a year or so, spiralled out of control...

She's taken the hint and I've reverted to high fat / low carb again. Finding it difficult to stay off the grapes, tho...

[mikiec]

Have you looked at time restricted eating - basically it's an alternative to fasting with similar longevity benefits. Optimal time supposed to be 9 hours but anything under 12 good. Couple of cheat days a week okay as well
For example all my eating is done between 9am-6pm, with only water okay outside of those times. Few studies showing some interesting results with good fat loss compared to a non TRE diet with the same calories consumed.

I'm only a week in on it but seems to be working and for me a lot more appealing than fasting. Just miss my coffee first thing in the morning