Is a rowing machine the silver bullet to weight loss?
Discussion
Tiggsy said:
clonmult said:
All the people I know with rowing machines use them regularly, very regularly ....
The water rower is, er, rubbish. They don't give a consistent workout, the monitor on them is amongst one of the worst pieces of computerised gear ever to be used on fitness equipment - it is probably comparable to the monitor first used by C2 on the Model A rower.
There's a reason why the C2 is the mainstay in boathouses and gym (plus crossfit) - they're sensibly priced, ridiculously reliable and just work. The only comparable device is the rowperfect RP3, which costs something like 3 times the price. The waterrower is not comparable.
On the other hand..... I bought one (with adjustable resistance) and find it great. I use it (6ft6 17 stone) she uses it (5ft6 8 stone) and can adjust resistance as needed. The action is lovely and smooth and looks nice enough indoors and is quiet enough to use at 6am without waking the house.The water rower is, er, rubbish. They don't give a consistent workout, the monitor on them is amongst one of the worst pieces of computerised gear ever to be used on fitness equipment - it is probably comparable to the monitor first used by C2 on the Model A rower.
There's a reason why the C2 is the mainstay in boathouses and gym (plus crossfit) - they're sensibly priced, ridiculously reliable and just work. The only comparable device is the rowperfect RP3, which costs something like 3 times the price. The waterrower is not comparable.
I've plenty of experience on c2 (done a few sub 6m 2K's in my youth) and I cant see a benifit of a C2 over the water rower for home use.
UNLESS....you are fixed on the monitor...its not as good as the C2 and doesn't relate to a C2 either as the calibration is out. I can do well under a sub 1.30 500m with ease on a C2 but would kill me on mine. Maybe the water unit is too full? Doesnt matter, I row for a set time at a set heart rate or HIIT. For both of those I need a clock and heart monitor only and dont even use the rowers display sometimes.
You're still getting a good workout, sure. But the C2 is cheaper and more reliable, very easily stored - it is the most popular device for good reason, it really is the best by far (apart from the RP3). The water rower is style thing, the C2 is for those who are more serious about their training.
Serious about quite specific rowing training.
The water rower gives as good a workout as a c2. Consistency of training for hiit or cardio isn’t needed, just effort, hrm and a clock.
The action is, IMO, nicer and for home use it looks better and is quieter. Too many people are put off water machines because they are told c2’s are the only way to go. Unless you are training to me fast on a c2, I don’t see it.
The water rower gives as good a workout as a c2. Consistency of training for hiit or cardio isn’t needed, just effort, hrm and a clock.
The action is, IMO, nicer and for home use it looks better and is quieter. Too many people are put off water machines because they are told c2’s are the only way to go. Unless you are training to me fast on a c2, I don’t see it.
Tiggsy said:
Serious about quite specific rowing training.
The water rower gives as good a workout as a c2. Consistency of training for hiit or cardio isn’t needed, just effort, hrm and a clock.
The action is, IMO, nicer and for home use it looks better and is quieter. Too many people are put off water machines because they are told c2’s are the only way to go. Unless you are training to me fast on a c2, I don’t see it.
People are told C2s are the way to go for good reason. They are better than water rowers. The water rower gives as good a workout as a c2. Consistency of training for hiit or cardio isn’t needed, just effort, hrm and a clock.
The action is, IMO, nicer and for home use it looks better and is quieter. Too many people are put off water machines because they are told c2’s are the only way to go. Unless you are training to me fast on a c2, I don’t see it.
We've got some water rowers at our gym and no one uses them. They aren't aesthetically pleasing, looking like something Fred Flintstone would use, and they aren't very good.
If you LIKE the water rower, then it's the one for you. But trying to argue it's better than the C2 by any objective measure is tricky.
Model D arrived yesterday, had a 30 minute row on it this morning. Great start to the day. Feel like my technique is two thirds there, using the concept 2 guide here: http://www.concept2.co.uk/indoor-rowers/training/t...
I feel the drive through my legs, arms straight, lean back, bring my arms in and then reverse, and start over. It's the up and over motion with the handle that throws me as I'm so used to just bringing the handle back and forth in a near straight line. Next step will be to video it and have a look and maybe be brave enough to post it on here.
I feel the drive through my legs, arms straight, lean back, bring my arms in and then reverse, and start over. It's the up and over motion with the handle that throws me as I'm so used to just bringing the handle back and forth in a near straight line. Next step will be to video it and have a look and maybe be brave enough to post it on here.
So said:
Tiggsy said:
Serious about quite specific rowing training.
The water rower gives as good a workout as a c2. Consistency of training for hiit or cardio isn’t needed, just effort, hrm and a clock.
The action is, IMO, nicer and for home use it looks better and is quieter. Too many people are put off water machines because they are told c2’s are the only way to go. Unless you are training to me fast on a c2, I don’t see it.
People are told C2s are the way to go for good reason. They are better than water rowers. The water rower gives as good a workout as a c2. Consistency of training for hiit or cardio isn’t needed, just effort, hrm and a clock.
The action is, IMO, nicer and for home use it looks better and is quieter. Too many people are put off water machines because they are told c2’s are the only way to go. Unless you are training to me fast on a c2, I don’t see it.
We've got some water rowers at our gym and no one uses them. They aren't aesthetically pleasing, looking like something Fred Flintstone would use, and they aren't very good.
If you LIKE the water rower, then it's the one for you. But trying to argue it's better than the C2 by any objective measure is tricky.
The two best rowing machines on the market are the C2 Model D/E and the RP3. There is a reason that most boat houses around the world use the C2 models, and many will still have their original Model Cs, and a few may even have Model Bs around.
I'm currently suffering from having had some one on one coaching from a colleague who used to row for England, and also used to be a rowing coach. He was brutal, but I couldn't back down. But damn, is it good to be pushed hard.
To answer the thread title, no a rowing machine is not the silver bullet.
In the home environment, for calorie burning, I would argue that a stationary bike is probably the best, for the simple reason that as your upper body is still, and the equipment quiet, you can watch a movie whilst cycling on it.
That means you are almost passively exercising and so more likely to actually use regularly, unlike a rower.
Rowers are good for people who like rowing, and appreciate its full body workout, but noisier, takes more space and requires more commitment.
In the home environment, for calorie burning, I would argue that a stationary bike is probably the best, for the simple reason that as your upper body is still, and the equipment quiet, you can watch a movie whilst cycling on it.
That means you are almost passively exercising and so more likely to actually use regularly, unlike a rower.
Rowers are good for people who like rowing, and appreciate its full body workout, but noisier, takes more space and requires more commitment.
Paddy_N_Murphy said:
Tiggsy / Anyone offer an opinion on this as an Idea ?
I understand that some prefer a C2 for the 'workout' but a Water Rower dipping of my toe for a few months appeals. (as much for stowage and aesthetics in a smallish house. It would need to morph around furniture)
They say £11.50 a week... seems perhaps a little much ?
I'm seeing the ones on Ebay alternatively.....
Not sure on the costs - I suppose the issue is, after a year, you are fast heading towards having paid for one outright if you just bought it.I understand that some prefer a C2 for the 'workout' but a Water Rower dipping of my toe for a few months appeals. (as much for stowage and aesthetics in a smallish house. It would need to morph around furniture)
They say £11.50 a week... seems perhaps a little much ?
I'm seeing the ones on Ebay alternatively.....
As for whether you should get one at all - as I've said I'm a big fan.
For me, it blends into my living room (although my living room is very "industrial - Manhattan Loft" in design so it fits. If your house is all fabrics and wall paper...maybe not! A mate was over the other day and was in my lounge for an hour before even noticing there was a rower in the corner!
Takes, literally, 3 seconds to store away or put up.
I prefer the "feel" to a concept. The catch feels like.....catching water to me, very soft and natural. I've never rowed on water but kayak a lot and it reminds me of a blade catching real water.
I also enjoy the sound. Shut your eyes and it sounds like what it is - a blade through water. Not a wind turbine.
As for the work out.....the "exercise" is no different to any rower. You are pulling a handle with your body. Your cardio fitness and the impact on your involved muscles is the same.
Where it is not as good is that the readout is not consistent (although more than enough for me) - its more that it doesn't relate to every other rower. So a 1.20 split on mine will feel different to another persons machine - and very different to a C2. So, if you are looking to set good/improving C2 times, its useless as a measure.
But for fitness, I dont need that any more than I need to run on the exact same route each time I go jogging. I just pick 10k and head off. If there's a monster hill during it, I'll be slower! *
I understand the C2 people and they do get excited about their kit and rightly so! If I was planning to get back down to fast times I'd certainly use a C2 more.....but for fitness in the home, I think water suits many people.
I've worked in gym, been a personal trainer, maintained/used/trained people on C2's and rowed 2k's faster than the vast majority of other people in the world......but when I get up at 6am I still enjoy sloshing away on my water rower while listening to LBC
- Should add - When I lift I would never dream of just chucking on random weights. I know to the gram what I last lifted and how much I need to add this time. So appreciated the desire to monitor a form of exercise closely - So for people into rowing the way I am into weights, I get the C2 thing - it would be like me using random bags of fluid for weights instead and just accepting that it was probably heavy enough!
Birdster said:
Model D arrived yesterday, had a 30 minute row on it this morning. Great start to the day. Feel like my technique is two thirds there, using the concept 2 guide here: http://www.concept2.co.uk/indoor-rowers/training/t...
I feel the drive through my legs, arms straight, lean back, bring my arms in and then reverse, and start over. It's the up and over motion with the handle that throws me as I'm so used to just bringing the handle back and forth in a near straight line. Next step will be to video it and have a look and maybe be brave enough to post it on here.
Up and over? You're doing it wrong. In the stroke, arms remain nearly straight until late, so the knees should be down when the hands pass over them. On the recovery, arms lead, so the handle should be way out in front when the knees come up.I feel the drive through my legs, arms straight, lean back, bring my arms in and then reverse, and start over. It's the up and over motion with the handle that throws me as I'm so used to just bringing the handle back and forth in a near straight line. Next step will be to video it and have a look and maybe be brave enough to post it on here.
Perhaps up and over is the wrong term. In the Concept 2 training video as the rower is at the beginning of the catch she raises the handle up and then drives and as she starts the recovery she lowers it slightly from her chest/ribs. Plan is when my partner is at home the weekend to have her video me when I'm not looking to monitor my form. At the moment I seem to be thinking about it too much,
Birdster said:
Perhaps up and over is the wrong term. In the Concept 2 training video as the rower is at the beginning of the catch she raises the handle up and then drives and as she starts the recovery she lowers it slightly from her chest/ribs. Plan is when my partner is at home the weekend to have her video me when I'm not looking to monitor my form. At the moment I seem to be thinking about it too much,
Rowing in front of a big mirror is helpful. Put the rower at 45 degrees to it.
Birdster said:
Perhaps up and over is the wrong term. In the Concept 2 training video as the rower is at the beginning of the catch she raises the handle up and then drives and as she starts the recovery she lowers it slightly from her chest/ribs. Plan is when my partner is at home the weekend to have her video me when I'm not looking to monitor my form. At the moment I seem to be thinking about it too much,
She's just trying to replicate rowing in a boat, where you have to drop the oar in at the catch and extract it at the finish. Nobody does that on an erg.Zod said:
Birdster said:
Perhaps up and over is the wrong term. In the Concept 2 training video as the rower is at the beginning of the catch she raises the handle up and then drives and as she starts the recovery she lowers it slightly from her chest/ribs. Plan is when my partner is at home the weekend to have her video me when I'm not looking to monitor my form. At the moment I seem to be thinking about it too much,
She's just trying to replicate rowing in a boat, where you have to drop the oar in at the catch and extract it at the finish. Nobody does that on an erg.
ks....So said:
To quote many "proper" rowers: Ergs don't float.
Oh yes, at uni I was faster than a few rowers (certainly college ones) on the erg, but the only things I could do in a boat was either miss the water with the blade or fall in, or often both. 45 mins in a single scull was 44 minutes falling in....Derek Chevalier said:
Zod said:
Birdster said:
Perhaps up and over is the wrong term. In the Concept 2 training video as the rower is at the beginning of the catch she raises the handle up and then drives and as she starts the recovery she lowers it slightly from her chest/ribs. Plan is when my partner is at home the weekend to have her video me when I'm not looking to monitor my form. At the moment I seem to be thinking about it too much,
She's just trying to replicate rowing in a boat, where you have to drop the oar in at the catch and extract it at the finish. Nobody does that on an erg.I've joined the party too, I did a bit of rowing last year at the gym and for various reasons enjoyed/hated it in equal measure.
More recently I've been doing other things at the gym and lost touch with the C2. So I looked at getting a machine for home use, I'm very tall and very heavy so needed something sturdy. The Concept machines take up to 227kg's, so you know they are built like tanks.
The new PM5 was the clincher for me, links up to your phone, heart rate monitor, uploads to your C2 online log so you can track your progress etc.
It's currently sat in my office, so I smashed out a quick (for me anyway) 1000m this morning and I'll do another before I leave this afternoon.
More recently I've been doing other things at the gym and lost touch with the C2. So I looked at getting a machine for home use, I'm very tall and very heavy so needed something sturdy. The Concept machines take up to 227kg's, so you know they are built like tanks.
The new PM5 was the clincher for me, links up to your phone, heart rate monitor, uploads to your C2 online log so you can track your progress etc.
It's currently sat in my office, so I smashed out a quick (for me anyway) 1000m this morning and I'll do another before I leave this afternoon.
Coin Slot. said:
I've joined the party too, I did a bit of rowing last year at the gym and for various reasons enjoyed/hated it in equal measure.
More recently I've been doing other things at the gym and lost touch with the C2. So I looked at getting a machine for home use, I'm very tall and very heavy so needed something sturdy. The Concept machines take up to 227kg's, so you know they are built like tanks.
The new PM5 was the clincher for me, links up to your phone, heart rate monitor, uploads to your C2 online log so you can track your progress etc.
It's currently sat in my office, so I smashed out a quick (for me anyway) 1000m this morning and I'll do another before I leave this afternoon.
Model E; I get vertigo when I sit on these, and tend to feel like I'm about to head butt the monitor. I'm so used to the slightly lower seating position on the C and D. Although I did get a 200m PB on one last year (1:19.5 average - must have been a bad month, as I averaged 1:19.3 doing the same on the ski erg).More recently I've been doing other things at the gym and lost touch with the C2. So I looked at getting a machine for home use, I'm very tall and very heavy so needed something sturdy. The Concept machines take up to 227kg's, so you know they are built like tanks.
The new PM5 was the clincher for me, links up to your phone, heart rate monitor, uploads to your C2 online log so you can track your progress etc.
It's currently sat in my office, so I smashed out a quick (for me anyway) 1000m this morning and I'll do another before I leave this afternoon.
Due to the single "foot" arrangement at the front, they're actually easier to hold down with a couple of weights than the Model C & D.
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