Arghh Cutting! Not working well for me

[stargazer30]

Okay lets get the rant out the way first.
[RANT] Cutting sucks, I mean really sucks ass. That book Bigger Leaner Stronger, the bit where it says you can eat healthy and still enjoy your food.... Utter bks, it will make you hate life and hate eating. You cannot, simply cannot hit cutting fat, protein and carb macros on clean foods and have anything remotely like what you like, ever. Any remotely nice/naughty food will screw up your fat macro, wack the cals up and you won't hit on the protein! And breathe.... [/RANT]

Right, anyway. I'm 4 weeks in of this hell. Have tracked on MFP religiously, no alcohol at all, 90% clean foods, sticking to macros 190P, 190C, 43F and about 1900-1950 calories on average per day. Current stats 39 year old male, 183lbs, 23%BF. My weight is dropping about 1 to 2 lbs a week but my body fat is simply not. I check both 3 times a week and best I can figure I am loosing lean mass and weight roughly at a 1:1 ratio. Gym 3 times a week, mostly compound based on the Bigger Leaner Stronger routine. Karate twice a week for cardio. Gym lifts are not going down thankfully but its getting painfully hard, especially legs.

Any ideas where I'm going wrong here?

PS looking at the sample pics on the net, I don't look 23% BF in the mirror, more like 20 or slightly less. Maybe wishful thinking.

Edited by stargazer30 on Wednesday 15th February 08:48

Edited by stargazer30 on Wednesday 15th February 20:39

[chris_c201]

Totally agree on the cutting, i'm not that aware of it personally but my wife often gets to breaking point when i'm cutting before i do... apparently i'm just a little bit grumpier ;-)

Anyway, if you're following macros (40/40/20 by my calculations) and eating clean, lifting well, then i'd question the measurements. How are you measuring BF? Have you done tape measurements?

I'd stick with it another few weeks and check waist measurements etc. Have you done a proper cut before? I find i'm very carb sensitive so while its even more brutal, tend to do as close to no carbs as humanly possible, allows more protein intake and generally works well for a natural fatty like me....

Good luck and stick at it... !

[PurpleAki]

I thought this was someone self harming not a whiny dieter.

[stargazer30]

PurpleAki said:

I thought this was someone self harming not a whiny dieter.

I'm getting near that point! Plus this makes dieting look like child's play.

[272BHP]

4 weeks is the worst point for me when I am trying to get in shape.

The first few weeks are great as you are pushed along by initial enthusiasm but the 4 week point is something you have to struggle through - it does get a little easier!

Have one or two nights off a week and it will keep you sane - Looking forward to Friday night Pizza keeps me going.

Edited by 272BHP on Wednesday 15th February 11:16

[stargazer30]

chris_c201 said:

Anyway, if you're following macros (40/40/20 by my calculations) and eating clean, lifting well, then i'd question the measurements. How are you measuring BF? Have you done tape measurements?

I have a over priced set of scales that measure weight and BF% using sensors on your feet and hands. I've heard any scales that measure BF% are not accurate but I was hoping them to be consistent at least, ie number maybe high but as long as its going down all is well.

For a laugh we tried them out on my best mate who is a genetic mutant. He doesn't lift, can eat crap all day everyday and is skinny as a rake. They recon he is 20% BF which did make me laugh.

[KamSandhu44]

Your fat intake looks rather low. Try dropping some carbs and protein in favour of fats. It should help.

I'm 35 183 pounds and about 24% BF, I cut on 137c 130p and 66f, 1662 cals. It sucks, but the higher fat helps.

[tankplanker]

chris_c201 said:

Totally agree on the cutting, i'm not that aware of it personally but my wife often gets to breaking point when i'm cutting before i do... apparently i'm just a little bit grumpier ;-)

Anyway, if you're following macros (40/40/20 by my calculations) and eating clean, lifting well, then i'd question the measurements. How are you measuring BF? Have you done tape measurements?

I'd stick with it another few weeks and check waist measurements etc. Have you done a proper cut before? I find i'm very carb sensitive so while its even more brutal, tend to do as close to no carbs as humanly possible, allows more protein intake and generally works well for a natural fatty like me....

Good luck and stick at it... !

I agree with this. 40% carbs would be way too high for me on a cut, I aim for around 25% carbs, 45% protein and 35% fat. I consider that amount of carbs quite high and protein quite low, typically I'm eating 1g of protein for 1lb of body weight, normally I'd like to eat 1.5lb of protein to 1lb of body weight. I don't always hit the exact macros but I'm normally only a percent or two out. Cutting processed sugar then sugar from fruits/veg is the biggest area I cut from my carb intake. I find I am much happier eating less when I am not spiking my hunger with sugar.

[stargazer30]

KamSandhu44 said:

Your fat intake looks rather low. Try dropping some carbs and protein in favour of fats. It should help.

I'm 35 183 pounds and about 24% BF, I cut on 137c 130p and 66f, 1662 cals. It sucks, but the higher fat helps.

From what I've read that protein looks too low for a cut. The science says you need to avoid loss of muscle by trying to stop your body breaking down that protein for energy, to do that stick to 1g or protein per lb of body weight. You find this macro split doesn't impact your lifts at all? How long is your cutting cycle? (I have another 6 weeks at least :-( )

EDIT: my Fat macro is one of the worst to hit. I tend to run over it 5g ish some days. Short of living on chicken, most meats/eggs or dairy tend to push the fat too high to get the protein in. Also finding low fat foods tend to be loaded with sugar instead which again is no good.

Edited by stargazer30 on Wednesday 15th February 09:00

Edited by stargazer30 on Wednesday 15th February 09:00

[KamSandhu44]

stargazer30 said:

From what I've read that protein looks too low for a cut. The science says you need to avoid loss of muscle by trying to stop your body breaking down that protein for energy, to do that stick to 1g or protein per lb of body weight. You find this macro split doesn't impact your lifts at all? How long is your cutting cycle? (I have another 6 weeks at least :-( )

EDIT: my Fat macro is one of the worst to hit. I tend to run over it 5g ish some days. Short of living on chicken, most meats/eggs or dairy tend to push the fat too high to get the protein in. Also finding low fat foods tend to be loaded with sugar instead which again is no good.

Edited by stargazer30 on Wednesday 15th February 09:00

Edited by stargazer30 on Wednesday 15th February 09:00

I've been cutting since 2013. Had a lot of fat to cut. I've always gone by the rule of 0.8g per pound of lean body mass. As far as I can tell I've not lost muscle. My lifts never decrease.

Have a watch...

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=hZjxWqwoWTg

[roboxm3]

Funny you should post this today, as I've just been on the Boditrax scales at the gym this morning and have been equally disgusted and depressed by my 20.4% body fat measurement!!

I've just downloaded the MyFitnessPal app again and am going to try and religiously stick to my cals / macros in an effort to get below 15% BF.

Currently 35yo, 1.68m, 76.2kg and as above 20.4% BF.

Apparently my ideal weight is 62.1kg but I haven't weighed that much since I was about 15yo. My initial goal is sub-15% BF and 75kg.

I've set my macros goals at 30% carbs / 40% protein / 30% fat and we'll see how that goes for a few weeks.

Edited by roboxm3 on Wednesday 15th February 11:20

[Jefferson Steelflex]

I get inundated with these bloody cutting guides and other bks all over Twitter. First mistake is to believe everything you read....

I've been trying to lose body fat and grow lean muscle at the same time since 1st January. Similar stats to the OP (170cm tall, started at 75kg and now down to 69.4kg). People will say different things but what worked for me, working on my own preferences for types of food is:

1,800 calories per day
45% Protein (200g perday)
30% Fat (60g per day)
25% Carb (110g per day)

The point is, you need to find what works for you. My opinion is that reducing carbs to a manageable level is key, on most days I won't get to 90g carbs so always have some spare. In the 6 weeks i've not gone over Carbs once, I have on fat and protein (and overall calories) but never carbs.

My energy is up, i've gained strength on bewnch, squat, pull-up etc. and am about 16% bf. Just find the right macro, try and enjoy your food (I love bacon and eggs for brekkie every day) and the results will come.

[Hoofy]

stargazer30 said:

Any ideas where I'm going wrong here?

You're going too extreme and it won't last. Unless you're cutting for a competition, there are easier ways of binning the fat. Enjoy a cheat meal once a week, indulge in the occasional pint.

Once you bail, you'll put a lot of it back on and so it will begin again.

[Pvapour]

5:2 fasting

I dont have time to write the details (sorry, loads of info out there on it) but having been a competitive bodybuilder in my early days and been training for 30 years (47 - 13%bf - 210lb) it is by far the easiest way to drop fat and not lean mass, any routine or control over your diet and macros and your body will adapt, you need to shock your body.

Remember 3000kcal deficit is needded to loose 1lb of fat and thats if ur hitting fat stores alone which is unlikely..

[Hoofy]

Pvapour said:

5:2 fasting

I dont have time to write the details (sorry, loads of info out there on it) but having been a competitive bodybuilder in my early days and been training for 30 years (47 - 13%bf - 210lb) it is by far the easiest way to drop fat and not lean mass, any routine or control over your diet and macros and your body will adapt, you need to shock your body.

Remember 3000kcal deficit is needded to loose 1lb of fat and thats if ur hitting fat stores alone which is unlikely..

What do you think of 16/8 IFing? Have you tried that as well?

[RJB_666]

Dieting is not easy and good results aren't quick. Depending how quick and what results you want you can do it being a bit more flexible. A lot of it is about calories in vs calories out. But with dieting it is often about making adjustments. The amount of calories you are on is very low. I'm trying to gain weight at the moment on 3500 calories a day and I'm only gaining weight steadily. Only when in the last few weeks of a strict cut did I go on 2100 calories a day, with a 4 low carb days on 1900 calories. This got me down to around 5-6% body fat though. Personally I'd initially experiment with upping your calories by 100 per week if you're struggling with dieting. More food brings more energy and often more productive workouts.

What are your workouts like? Do you do much cardio? If so, is it LISS or HIIT? One thing I find works well for me in workouts is supersets and giant sets. When I was making sure my workouts were planned with intense supersets and higher reps I found I was getting leaner on 3200 calories.

At the end of the day it sounds like you are aiming for a healthy maintainable lifestyle and pysique and not to look like Frank Zane. Being in a calorie deficit for long periods is not too healthy. Perhaps try upping your calories gradually to 2500. It's better to increase expenditure rather than drop calories when possible.

[J4CKO]

The body fat pictures can be misleading, you get skinny folk at 10 percent and they look dreadful and then someone who trains so difficult to say from pics, my scales are saying 21 percent, I am 6ft and currently weigh 209 pounds, 14 st 13, I would say that is about right or maybe a smidge optimistic, I came down from 34 percent, aiming for low teens, not super low but maintainable, aiming for a pound a week to come off, this weeks target is 14.12, you have to be utterly dug in and on it for it to keep falling, funny how it has no qualms about going up but I want to be lean for once in my life.

Just keep at it and mix it up a bit is my advice.

[stargazer30]

Pvapour said:

5:2 fasting

I dont have time to write the details (sorry, loads of info out there on it) but having been a competitive bodybuilder in my early days and been training for 30 years (47 - 13%bf - 210lb) it is by far the easiest way to drop fat and not lean mass, any routine or control over your diet and macros and your body will adapt, you need to shock your body.

Okay I downloaded the book on my kindle and read half of it this afternoon. I'm sold on it being a good way to lose weight but I can't see how it can work with lifting. Some of the claims in the book are big no's for lifters. Example - 0.8g of protein per KG (not lb) of body weight? Thats like 70g or something. Also claiming that lifting while fasting (and therefore with muscles depleated of glycogen) will still promote muscle gain? That's got to be wrong.

How have you adapted this diet for weight lifting? I am thinking stick to standard macro's and eat maintenance on 5 days. Do the 600 cal fast on 2 days and make sure they are not lifting days?

[Pvapour]

stargazer30 said:

How have you adapted this diet for weight lifting? I am thinking stick to standard macro's and eat maintenance on 5 days. Do the 600 cal fast on 2 days and make sure they are not lifting days?

on the right tracks, fasting is basically extreme kcal deficit and your body digging into fat stores as theres nothing else, i need 200g of protein in maintain stance, but on fasting days i'll get away with 150g of protein, whatever this equates to in Kcal (depends what protein is ingested) i'll expend a further 3000kcal with medium & low impact aerobic activity (no weights as you say) not a problem as energy levels go through the roof on fast days, strength most certainly doesn't

Only thing to be careful of is cortisol and sugar levels, sugar and insulin spikes you'll probably be ok with (unless you have problems regulating sugar, in which case get doctors advice) considering the protein your eating as this tends to surpress / flatten out insulin spikes, the cortisol is a stress hormone released when you body panics (back to caveman days; short term energy/adrenalin to catch some food) and can eat into muscle tissue, magnesium is your friend in battling this, difficult to eat foods that contain magnesium (apricots, mushrooms etc) in the amount you'd need due extra calories you'd ingest, so supplement, about 7out of10 people are magnesium deficient anyway (this is how i found out i was) so no biggy taking a sup.

its really effective doing your cv stuff whilst fasting, i swear i can feel it dropping off, but to be fair when if you have a higher than average muscle mass then your body is so efficient in this fasting state at burning fat its crazy, I get pretty high when fasting, love listening to rave while doing something aerobic, queue the jokes...


Hoofy - no, not needed anything else so far but i'll give it a go, good to have different stuff in the arsenal to keep the body guessing whats going on, although I never eat after 8pm in the evening anyway so means just skipping breakfast, can't see it being drastic enough but i'll give it a go, have you migrated to this from the 5:2 then?

Edited by Pvapour on Thursday 16th February 06:15

[popeyewhite]

Are you a bodybuilder or weightlifter OP? Because if you're not then you're on a weightloss diet, not a cut.