Arghh Cutting! Not working well for me

[Pvapour]

Think hes on a fat loss diet and its for vanity (like most people) closer to the bodybuilders reference of cutting than anything else, makes no difference if hes a bodybuilder' weightlifter or strongman, guy needs help finding a way that works on loosing fat.

Personaly I dont agree with vanity being a primary drive for loosing fat on the whole but its better than nothing, i refer to myself as a bodybuilder so people understand what i do but i'm not a bodybuilder really, i dont compete and dont show my body off to anyone so hardly bodybuilder.

If you look at lengthening your life through fitness you'll keep going allot longer & harder imo, it has to be about you and not how you appear to others, its the only way to be proud of yourself (on a health level)

[J4CKO]

I think "cut" sounds better and more manly than "diet" but I do think you need to be a bodybuilder preparing for a competition to use it, it is a pretty specific context and form of dieting.

I do some strength training and am in the process of dropping from 18 st to 14 or under but I would feel a bit strange saying I am "cutting", I am a fat lump that is on a diet but whatever works.

Motivation for me is not being fat, I cant say the aesthetics arent a factor but its simple things like getting up off the couch, getting out of cars, clibing stairs, all get easier the less weighty you carry, I feel really sorry for properly big people as it must be so hard to carry all that round, losing weight is actually easier than what they have to do daily I would say, and that is discounting all the health issues it can generate.

[thebraketester]

Am I missing something here?

183lbs is 13 stone.

Let's presume you are 5"11. I would say that's a fairly healthy weight.

Why put yourself through all this? Just eat sensibly but "properly"

[Pvapour]

thebraketester said:

Am I missing something here?

183lbs is 13 stone.

Let's presume you are 5"11. I would say that's a fairly healthy weight.

Why put yourself through all this? Just eat sensibly but "properly"

Think you are, as said, its not about health its about vanity and lowering BF for a better apearance.

[Hoofy]

Pvapour said:

Hoofy - no, not needed anything else so far but i'll give it a go, good to have different stuff in the arsenal to keep the body guessing whats going on, although I never eat after 8pm in the evening anyway so means just skipping breakfast, can't see it being drastic enough but i'll give it a go, have you migrated to this from the 5:2 then?

I never used 5:2. Did use 16/8 and it seemed to work plus, as you suggest, easy to do.

[ORD]

If you're 20% bodyfat, you're not 'cutting' - you're just trying to stop being fat. Eat a bit less; move a bit more.

[ORD]

That sounded harsher than I meant it to.

I think the sad truth is that losing fat QUICKLY is hard unless you're already moderately lean or very fat. If your body is used to being lean, it will gladly hover around 12-15%; if you've not been lean for most of your adult life, various mechanisms will work against fat loss.

If you try to do it quickly, it's unlikely to work well and will be very tough. Better to make slow and easy progress by eating really clean and not worrying about tracking macros and all that bodybuilding stuff. You don't need to lose fat in 6 weeks. You can take a year over it. It's a long term change, surely?

The smartest doctor I know talks about the body as comprising a number of very effective systems that take, sadly, ages to recalibrate (which makes sense from an evolutionary standpoint).

[J4CKO]

ORD said:

If you're 20% bodyfat, you're not 'cutting' - you're just trying to stop being fat. Eat a bit less; move a bit more.

Am guessing Bodybuilders get anywhere near that even when not "cutting" ?

Arent most pros between 3 and 5 percent B/F when competing, wonder what they go up to when not getting ready ?

[ORD]

J4CKO said:

Am guessing Bodybuilders get anywhere near that even when not "cutting" ?

Arent most pros between 3 and 5 percent B/F when competing, wonder what they go up to when not getting ready ?

I don't know, but I expect it varies a lot. Some people 'clean bulk' and aim to keep fat to about 30% of increased mass; others get quite chubby, I think. They then cut very hard. Normal people should try to keep a more stable %. Bound to fatten up a bit, but it's a lot harder to lose than to gain!

[tankplanker]

J4CKO said:

Am guessing Bodybuilders get anywhere near that even when not "cutting" ?

Arent most pros between 3 and 5 percent B/F when competing, wonder what they go up to when not getting ready ?

Aren't nearly all pros going to be on gear? Does make it easier to cut and to gain lean depending on what they are using.

[popeyewhite]

J4CKO said:

Am guessing Bodybuilders get anywhere near that even when not "cutting" ?

Arent most pros between 3 and 5 percent B/F when competing, wonder what they go up to when not getting ready ?

Ones I knew hovered around 10-14%. Even during bulking they didn't eat rubbish.

[RJB_666]

popeyewhite said:

J4CKO said:

Am guessing Bodybuilders get anywhere near that even when not "cutting" ?

Arent most pros between 3 and 5 percent B/F when competing, wonder what they go up to when not getting ready ?

Ones I knew hovered around 10-14%. Even during bulking they didn't eat rubbish.

10-14% is about right. I haven't competed, but I try and keep mine below 12% in off season. I heard Dave Titterton saying that if a bodybuilder can't see his abs in the off season then they're too far out from competition.

[Autopilot]

Jefferson Steelflex said:

I've been trying to lose body fat and grow lean muscle at the same time since 1st January.

Have you tried doing one or the other? The reason I say that is because this approach will limit the results you get as your diet can't support both objectives. If you're in a calories deficit to burn fat then you won't be able to put muscle on as your diet won't support this and vice versa.

[popeyewhite]

Autopilot said:

The reason I say that is because this approach will limit the results

You certainly need good discipline!

Autopilot said:

..you get as your diet can't support both objectives.

Why not?

[J4CKO]

Autopilot said:

Jefferson Steelflex said:

I've been trying to lose body fat and grow lean muscle at the same time since 1st January.

Have you tried doing one or the other? The reason I say that is because this approach will limit the results you get as your diet can't support both objectives. If you're in a calories deficit to burn fat then you won't be able to put muscle on as your diet won't support this and vice versa.

I seem to be managing ok, not a bodybuilder by any means but am sticking to around 2000 cals with a good amount of that from fats and protein, with enough carbs to keep me going.

Not planning on getting massive, prob too old at 46, dont actually want to be and dont have anywhere near the dedication anyway but noticing positive change, just want to look alright in t shirts that cant be used for a Circus

Wouldnt trying to do both at the same time be similar to thee concept of cutting then, I am guessing Body Builders still train when preparing for a competition ?

[ORD]

I'm 33 and cannot, any longer, gain muscle or strength without gaining a little bit of fat. I could when I was younger, but it seems to be affected by testosterone levels...and lack of sleep.

[J4CKO]

ORD said:

I'm 33 and cannot, any longer, gain muscle or strength without gaining a little bit of fat. I could when I was younger, but it seems to be affected by testosterone levels...and lack of sleep.

Maybe losing weight is giving me the illusion of gaining muscle ? definitely look and feel like I have gained some though, my gentleman breasts are now more muscle than fat, there is, in the right light, the faint outline of abdominal muscles, suggesting there is some muscle hidden under there.

Had my testosterone levels checked a few weeks back, all good, I have been told that losing weigh, cutting booze out/down and strength training amp it up and have certainly noticed, er, "benefits"..

[popeyewhite]

ORD said:

I'm 33 and cannot, any longer, gain muscle or strength without gaining a little bit of fat. I could when I was younger, but it seems to be affected by testosterone levels...and lack of sleep.

33 Eh? Dwindling testosterone levels will encourage more fat storage...when you get to your forties and beyond. At your age you should have no issues with t levels at all. T and GH production can be enhanced by intensity of lifting (heavy weight, short breaks). Sleep is important obviously but at your age you should be able to grow standing up

[ORD]

popeyewhite said:

ORD said:

I'm 33 and cannot, any longer, gain muscle or strength without gaining a little bit of fat. I could when I was younger, but it seems to be affected by testosterone levels...and lack of sleep.

33 Eh? Dwindling testosterone levels will encourage more fat storage...when you get to your forties and beyond. At your age you should have no issues with t levels at all. T and GH production can be enhanced by intensity of lifting (heavy weight, short breaks). Sleep is important obviously but at your age you should be able to grow standing up

Probably right - must be mostly lack of sleep! I get about 5-6 hours, contrasted to 8 when I was a lad. To be fair, I am gaining muscle fast now I've increased my calories, but I am also getting chubby (15% bf, maybe).

[Nezquick]

Pvapour said:

If you look at lengthening your life through fitness you'll keep going allot longer & harder imo, it has to be about you and not how you appear to others, its the only way to be proud of yourself (on a health level)

That's the most sensible thing I've seen someone say on this subject.

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