Discussion
The_Doc said:
Dr.Hellno said:
Sorry to hear UTH!
I knew a good few people who had been through the same injury, sometimes several times, and they all said to avoid surgery if possible, which is what I did.
Whilst your friends' sentiments and comments are undoubtedly correctly quoted, and I have nothing to unseat them, they do not represent the groundswell of ACL surgery results. I knew a good few people who had been through the same injury, sometimes several times, and they all said to avoid surgery if possible, which is what I did.
We see success of 90-95% with the return to pivoting sports, including at club level being a realistic goal. Mean age for surgery in the UK is late twenties and patient selection is important.
It's an operation to get you back on the pitch, snow, court etc.
Edited by The_Doc on Friday 21st April 21:17
In 2022, heading towards my 40's, I very nearly qualified for the Commonwealth Games in the same sport so ACL surgery definitely does work. I've never had issues except needing some meniscus trimmed in both knees 4-5 years ago.
The surgeon that did my first ACL surgery was http://nicolamaffulli.com - not surprised I haven't had issues since!
Hi,
My own experience mirrors several others here.
ACL torn then eventually ruptured so surgery the only way I could get back to competition.
The key for me was 'pre-hab' - I worked extremely hard strengthening the quad and hamstring prior to the operation which most definitely aided recovery. I was back competing around 9 months post op and still competing to this day.
Good luck!
My own experience mirrors several others here.
ACL torn then eventually ruptured so surgery the only way I could get back to competition.
The key for me was 'pre-hab' - I worked extremely hard strengthening the quad and hamstring prior to the operation which most definitely aided recovery. I was back competing around 9 months post op and still competing to this day.
Good luck!
All of this is true.
Failure or re-rupture rates of 5%, doubled in the under 16s and younger female athletes (we don't know why)
Surgery only for pitch, pivot or serious court participation.
6 months bare minimum to return to a full game.
New tweaks to surgical technique being developed and researched, but not necessarily deployed, all the time.
Failure or re-rupture rates of 5%, doubled in the under 16s and younger female athletes (we don't know why)
Surgery only for pitch, pivot or serious court participation.
6 months bare minimum to return to a full game.
New tweaks to surgical technique being developed and researched, but not necessarily deployed, all the time.
I ruptured my ACL and tore my meniscus playing rugby on a 4g pitch. If it was a grass pitch, it wouldn’t have happened…
I pass the Lachman Test, but the MRI showed the full extent of the damage. As I passed the test, I was given the choice of having the surgery, or going through physio rehab. The general advice from the BUPA consultant was to try the rehab route first and With a young son, I went for the rehab version - when I did my injury I couldn’t play with him on the floor or even bath him as I couldn’t get off the floor
I did this for about a year, and was then told that realistically if I ever wanted to play rugby again I would need the surgery and all that that entails. The general feeling was, either way I’d likely need a knee replacement in my 60s with or without the surgery.
I opted against - again for the same reason as above. Being able to run around and play with my son is more important than anything. And my rugby career was winding down anyway.
I have to do a lot of leg strengthing exercises weekly, and still in pain - not major but a constant 3/10 and sometime more - particularly if I’ve had to walk/run downhill the day before. It feels ‘unstable’ - but I’m told that’s more psychological.
Knowing what I do know, I wish I had the surgery first time of it being mentioned. I expect when my son is a grumpy teenager that no longer wants to spend time with his Daddy I’ll get it done.
I pass the Lachman Test, but the MRI showed the full extent of the damage. As I passed the test, I was given the choice of having the surgery, or going through physio rehab. The general advice from the BUPA consultant was to try the rehab route first and With a young son, I went for the rehab version - when I did my injury I couldn’t play with him on the floor or even bath him as I couldn’t get off the floor
I did this for about a year, and was then told that realistically if I ever wanted to play rugby again I would need the surgery and all that that entails. The general feeling was, either way I’d likely need a knee replacement in my 60s with or without the surgery.
I opted against - again for the same reason as above. Being able to run around and play with my son is more important than anything. And my rugby career was winding down anyway.
I have to do a lot of leg strengthing exercises weekly, and still in pain - not major but a constant 3/10 and sometime more - particularly if I’ve had to walk/run downhill the day before. It feels ‘unstable’ - but I’m told that’s more psychological.
Knowing what I do know, I wish I had the surgery first time of it being mentioned. I expect when my son is a grumpy teenager that no longer wants to spend time with his Daddy I’ll get it done.
I’ve had 2 ACL reconstructions (both legs) in 2009 and 2011.
The first one I opted to fairly intense ‘pre-Hab’ (strengthening for a couple of months pre operation) and the second I just went in asap. The leg which was operated on more quickly recovered better - I lost muscle mass during ‘pre-hab’ which made recovery slower for sure.
Both are now 99% and I run and cycle without worrying. I’ve been told I’ve got the beginnings of arthritis, but at 46 that’s not totally unheard of, but probably linked to the acls.
Get the op I’d say - and rehab as soon as you can. I feel like my knees only really got strong again when I upped my cycling though.
The first one I opted to fairly intense ‘pre-Hab’ (strengthening for a couple of months pre operation) and the second I just went in asap. The leg which was operated on more quickly recovered better - I lost muscle mass during ‘pre-hab’ which made recovery slower for sure.
Both are now 99% and I run and cycle without worrying. I’ve been told I’ve got the beginnings of arthritis, but at 46 that’s not totally unheard of, but probably linked to the acls.
Get the op I’d say - and rehab as soon as you can. I feel like my knees only really got strong again when I upped my cycling though.
In for ACL Surgery yesterday with meniscus tidied up on both sides of my right knee.
Long day as I had a bit of low blood pressure, possibly too much pain relief, so didn’t get discharged until later in the evening.
Hamstring graft for the ACL and told the operation went really well.
Lots of water on the knee and a bit nippy but overall not too bad considering.
16 sessions of physio signed off by Bupa so physio in 10 days to start work on rehab and recovery plan.
Will update on my progress and see if overall I have made the right decision to get it done.
Long day as I had a bit of low blood pressure, possibly too much pain relief, so didn’t get discharged until later in the evening.
Hamstring graft for the ACL and told the operation went really well.
Lots of water on the knee and a bit nippy but overall not too bad considering.
16 sessions of physio signed off by Bupa so physio in 10 days to start work on rehab and recovery plan.
Will update on my progress and see if overall I have made the right decision to get it done.
Update: it's getting on for 10 months since surgery.
Been going to the physio every 2-3 weeks since then. It's still not 100%, I can definitely feel it's a bit 'messy' in the knee compared with the normal one. Physio seems very happy with progress, passing a lot of the 'tests' I need to pass etc. She's got me running a few 5 min spells before I see her next.
Not sure what to expect now though, should it be aiming to feel 100% and pain free like the other knee, or will there always been something not right? My leg is very strong, but I wish it felt like I had two normal knees.
Been going to the physio every 2-3 weeks since then. It's still not 100%, I can definitely feel it's a bit 'messy' in the knee compared with the normal one. Physio seems very happy with progress, passing a lot of the 'tests' I need to pass etc. She's got me running a few 5 min spells before I see her next.
Not sure what to expect now though, should it be aiming to feel 100% and pain free like the other knee, or will there always been something not right? My leg is very strong, but I wish it felt like I had two normal knees.
UTH said:
Update: it's getting on for 10 months since surgery.
Been going to the physio every 2-3 weeks since then. It's still not 100%, I can definitely feel it's a bit 'messy' in the knee compared with the normal one. Physio seems very happy with progress, passing a lot of the 'tests' I need to pass etc. She's got me running a few 5 min spells before I see her next.
Not sure what to expect now though, should it be aiming to feel 100% and pain free like the other knee, or will there always been something not right? My leg is very strong, but I wish it felt like I had two normal knees.
UTH, it all depends on what else was damaged in your knee. The ACL doesn't 'hurt' usually, but meniscii, hyaline cartilage and scaring does.Been going to the physio every 2-3 weeks since then. It's still not 100%, I can definitely feel it's a bit 'messy' in the knee compared with the normal one. Physio seems very happy with progress, passing a lot of the 'tests' I need to pass etc. She's got me running a few 5 min spells before I see her next.
Not sure what to expect now though, should it be aiming to feel 100% and pain free like the other knee, or will there always been something not right? My leg is very strong, but I wish it felt like I had two normal knees.
In many cases the operation is about getting stable, and not always about getting prefect.
The_Doc said:
UTH said:
Update: it's getting on for 10 months since surgery.
Been going to the physio every 2-3 weeks since then. It's still not 100%, I can definitely feel it's a bit 'messy' in the knee compared with the normal one. Physio seems very happy with progress, passing a lot of the 'tests' I need to pass etc. She's got me running a few 5 min spells before I see her next.
Not sure what to expect now though, should it be aiming to feel 100% and pain free like the other knee, or will there always been something not right? My leg is very strong, but I wish it felt like I had two normal knees.
UTH, it all depends on what else was damaged in your knee. The ACL doesn't 'hurt' usually, but meniscii, hyaline cartilage and scaring does.Been going to the physio every 2-3 weeks since then. It's still not 100%, I can definitely feel it's a bit 'messy' in the knee compared with the normal one. Physio seems very happy with progress, passing a lot of the 'tests' I need to pass etc. She's got me running a few 5 min spells before I see her next.
Not sure what to expect now though, should it be aiming to feel 100% and pain free like the other knee, or will there always been something not right? My leg is very strong, but I wish it felt like I had two normal knees.
In many cases the operation is about getting stable, and not always about getting prefect.
Skiing was my main priority, and that window has closed until next March, so no rush I guess, but I was hoping it would feel close to 'good as new' by now....
Don't be afraid of getting a second opinion from either a physio or surgeon if you are not 100% happy.
I had one surgeon who did 3 ops on my knee over a period of around 2 years and told me I was fine - first was ACL and then 2 more to remove scar tissue as the knee had limited movement/was stiff.
After a few years of being unhappy with stiffness - I then went for a 2nd opinion and he found some torn meniscus- when that was trimmed it made a world of difference. Unfortunately I had to pay for the opinion privately but they did the operation on the NHS.
My first surgeon was much older and experienced than my second so just because they tell you something,... doesn't mean they are always right.
I had one surgeon who did 3 ops on my knee over a period of around 2 years and told me I was fine - first was ACL and then 2 more to remove scar tissue as the knee had limited movement/was stiff.
After a few years of being unhappy with stiffness - I then went for a 2nd opinion and he found some torn meniscus- when that was trimmed it made a world of difference. Unfortunately I had to pay for the opinion privately but they did the operation on the NHS.
My first surgeon was much older and experienced than my second so just because they tell you something,... doesn't mean they are always right.
z4RRSchris said:
i had ACL MCL PCL Meni back i 2012 with Fares Haddad, took up cycling to build muscle around the joint and all ok back to normal now.
Found running however to be a massive ball ache and recovery times hard.
Skiing was / is fine
Good to know, thanks. I did a 10 mins run on the treadmill at the physio's yesterday, so I must be getting somewhere Found running however to be a massive ball ache and recovery times hard.
Skiing was / is fine
UTH said:
z4RRSchris said:
i had ACL MCL PCL Meni back i 2012 with Fares Haddad, took up cycling to build muscle around the joint and all ok back to normal now.
Found running however to be a massive ball ache and recovery times hard.
Skiing was / is fine
Good to know, thanks. I did a 10 mins run on the treadmill at the physio's yesterday, so I must be getting somewhere Found running however to be a massive ball ache and recovery times hard.
Skiing was / is fine
His recovery is no guide to anything apart from his good luck, his hard work, and Fares' skill. I've just published with Fares et al on the UK's 5 and 10 year results for plain ACL. He's a great mind.
ACL/PCL/MCL is a whisker away from "you'll never walk without a limp again" They only injuries I see worse than this are the arterial tears, which aren't too bad, (but who really wants to risk limb loss?) and the nerve tears which are essentially impossible to repair.
Push hard and long on the rehab. BOL
The_Doc said:
UTH said:
z4RRSchris said:
i had ACL MCL PCL Meni back i 2012 with Fares Haddad, took up cycling to build muscle around the joint and all ok back to normal now.
Found running however to be a massive ball ache and recovery times hard.
Skiing was / is fine
Good to know, thanks. I did a 10 mins run on the treadmill at the physio's yesterday, so I must be getting somewhere Found running however to be a massive ball ache and recovery times hard.
Skiing was / is fine
His recovery is no guide to anything apart from his good luck, his hard work, and Fares' skill. I've just published with Fares et al on the UK's 5 and 10 year results for plain ACL. He's a great mind.
ACL/PCL/MCL is a whisker away from "you'll never walk without a limp again" They only injuries I see worse than this are the arterial tears, which aren't too bad, (but who really wants to risk limb loss?) and the nerve tears which are essentially impossible to repair.
Push hard and long on the rehab. BOL
Physio continues to be pleased with my progress, and my discomfort/pain is very minor, and pretty much vanishes as soon as I do the exercises, my frustration is that it's still not perfect, and if I skip a day of the exercises, I can feel it's still a bit painful. I hope that I'll get to a day where there is no pain at all?
The_Doc said:
With the greatest respect, z4RRSchris's injury is a football pitch size of complexity away from an ACL tear.
His recovery is no guide to anything apart from his good luck, his hard work, and Fares' skill. I've just published with Fares et al on the UK's 5 and 10 year results for plain ACL. He's a great mind.
ACL/PCL/MCL is a whisker away from "you'll never walk without a limp again" They only injuries I see worse than this are the arterial tears, which aren't too bad, (but who really wants to risk limb loss?) and the nerve tears which are essentially impossible to repair.
Push hard and long on the rehab. BOL
i decided to shatter my calcaneus into lots of little bits in the same leg now so back to square 1 and firmly into “never walk without a limp again”His recovery is no guide to anything apart from his good luck, his hard work, and Fares' skill. I've just published with Fares et al on the UK's 5 and 10 year results for plain ACL. He's a great mind.
ACL/PCL/MCL is a whisker away from "you'll never walk without a limp again" They only injuries I see worse than this are the arterial tears, which aren't too bad, (but who really wants to risk limb loss?) and the nerve tears which are essentially impossible to repair.
Push hard and long on the rehab. BOL
Fares top lad
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