anyone a parent of a girl with ADD / ADHD?

[Woodrow Wilson]

popeyewhite said:

Nice spin. Easy to overdiagnose as well, obvs. And there's other factors that can contribute to overdiagnosis - Media, social trends etc etc.

Why are you so keen to discredit this?

Some people are quite a long way from the "norm" and it can cause them difficulties. It is not for you to say that they are wrong.

[sparkyhx]

popeyewhite said:

sparkyhx said:

This....... that really is a dangerous message that popeywhite is saying and he/she needs to educate themselves.+.

My message is based on fact and current research. The psychometric tests are unreliable, and on completion of the test on any given day many of us might expect to fit on the autism spectrum (according to psychometrics) somewhere. It is also fact there is no medical diagnosis.
I work for the NHS in a psychotherapy role BTW.
The only danger is a blinkered dogmatic approach to the issue of certain hard to diagnose behavioural disorders.

If you work in the NHS then you will know diagnosis is NOT done on the basis of psychometric tests, otherwise people wouldn't be waiting 2 years FFS
The tests are an aid and that is it, they might rule out the need for a formal diagnosis completely, they might indicate with high degree of certainty of the success of a formal diagnosis. Those in the middle, that cluster around the cutoff may warrant more careful further. The ultimate diagnosis often involves a multi-disciplinary team and involvement of a psychiatrist/psychologist, not a few psychometric tests. Are the tests 100% reliable? No they are not, that's why they are not relied on.

When you say there is no medical diagnosis you are wrong. Is it quantatative diagnosis? - no it isn't, there is no blood tests MRI scan, xray that gives a diagnosis. However the diagnosis is Qualitative?

You appear to therefore suggest everything in DSM V cannot be medically diagnosed as everything in there is pretty much entirely Qualitative and subjective. To get a diagnosis You will go thru the ADOS, ADIR, or DISCO process of often structured and scored interviews and more than likely having completed several of the psychometric tests, such as RAADS-R, AQ, EQ, AAA, MAIA-2, CAT-Q, WURS etc

Below I am using 'diagnosis' interchangeable with 'indication' as I want to make it 100% clear the tests do NOT diagnose anything, they are simply an indication and aid for the subsequent formal process..

You say the psychometric tests are unreliable - define unreliable!

For instance take the RAADS-R (formal assessment tool recommended by NICE and deemed 'psychometrically sound by NAS') , if you score 10 one day, you are unlikely to then score +65 the next and warrant 'diagnosis'. Therefore it is accurate to say you don't have autism. Similarly someone scoring 180 is equally unlikely to score <65 another day and therefore its accurate in the indication of successful formal autism diagnosis..

People clustering in the 40-90 range could perhaps flip between diagnosis and non diagnosis threshold on a day by day basis. But couple this with CAT-Q about masking and this is a good indication why there may be inconsistencies. But, as I keep saying, this is preliminary not a significant part of the diagnostic process, it is simply an indication and will be used to 'inform' the further more in depth interview process etc which is far more important in the diagnostic journey.

For people in the <40 and >90 range, the tests are probably near 100% accurate. The fact you score 98 one day and 82 the next or 17 and 25 is irrelevant for diagnostic purposes because both scores meet the threshold for will still.

An interesting additional one is the, WURS to rule out or consider ADHD as an additional or alternative diagnosis due to the overlaps.

You say "on completion of the test on any given day many of us might expect to fit on the autism spectrum" This is again very concerning statement. Let me spell it out - you are NOT on the spectrum, you have autistic traits, all the population does at some point, but it doesn't mean you are on the spectrum or 'a little bit autistic'; which is another statement that is piss boilingly inane and inaccurate. Its like saying an amateur golfer who hits one great shot is semi pro.

I'm also getting a feeling that you also don't understand the term 'autistic spectrum'. The spectrum isn't linear from mild to severe, as many people think and which your language would indicate that you do as well.

I find, what you are saying as someone in the NHS and a psychotherapist potentially treating neurodivergent people truly scary and ignorant and you really need to consider getting some additional training.

There are plenty of courses and conferences UKATA, BACP CYPF etc all with Neurodivergent workshops and presentations. NAS do courses, a company called Aspire Autism Consultancy do courses specifically for psychotherapists explaining both autism and ADHD, what it is, how it presents, and how best to work with them in the therapy room, cos normal approaches that are taught to professionals like yourself simply do not work, e.g. research shows standard talking therapies and CBT doesn't really work with autistic people without modification. They also do clinical supervision and run CPD groups based around working with ND clients. Other organisations are also doing this now, but Aspire have been doing it for the past 9 or so years and are well established.



please get yourself informed at the very least, maybe try some of the suggestions above.

Edited by sparkyhx on Thursday 7th March 23:04

[PlywoodPascal]

just to add to the previous post and the one it quotes - which I draw much encouragement and warm feeling from - ADHD does not HAVE to be (though through circumstance sadly can be) an "opportunity-limiting" trait. As someone with ADHD who has risen to the top of their profession (sorry, wky words), remember that ADHD just makes you 'spiky' in terms of abilities. Although there will be greater weaknesses than for an 'equivalently intelligent' normie, there will be much greater strengths too. The key enabler for success/happiness is thus going to be identifying and cultivating those strengths and developing the (self) awareness to find opportunities and contexts where the strengths can be deployed and the weaknesses minimised or avoided altogether. Some environments/contexts can make that harder that it should be, but slowly that is (I hope/think) changing, and even within them things can be 'tipped' in the right direction.

whatever, though, it sounds like the children in question have all the support they need!