Help with Alcoholics
Discussion
Baldyboy said:
That’s such crap, you can be an alcoholic without drinking every day, with a level of control it’s not about the repetition or frequency it’s about what it does.
Unfortunately for most alcoholics it’s not about the drink per see it’s about the release, it’s about being able to unshackle yourself from your demons. Whatever helps you’ll abuse. It’s generally about more deep underlying issues. Alcoholics need to find their own path to recovery.
Was going to say, I think the definitions are different these days. I know of a couple of alcoholics that can do dry Jan, for example. Unfortunately for most alcoholics it’s not about the drink per see it’s about the release, it’s about being able to unshackle yourself from your demons. Whatever helps you’ll abuse. It’s generally about more deep underlying issues. Alcoholics need to find their own path to recovery.
My wife’s mother killed herself fairly young on booze and they tried it all, you need the person in question to want to change as has been said multiple times.
Baldyboy said:
That’s such crap, you can be an alcoholic without drinking every day, with a level of control it’s not about the repetition or frequency it’s about what it does.
Unfortunately for most alcoholics it’s not about the drink per see it’s about the release, it’s about being able to unshackle yourself from your demons. Whatever helps you’ll abuse. It’s generally about more deep underlying issues. Alcoholics need to find their own path to recovery.
In my experience which includes having lost a close friend to alcoholism and seen the lives of two family members ruined by it, I would suggest the ability to go for any meaningful period of time without alcohol excludes such people from being classified as alcoholic. They may have high levels of alcohol dependency which is a stop or two away from alcoholism but not necessarily alcoholism in itself.Unfortunately for most alcoholics it’s not about the drink per see it’s about the release, it’s about being able to unshackle yourself from your demons. Whatever helps you’ll abuse. It’s generally about more deep underlying issues. Alcoholics need to find their own path to recovery.
The cause of alcoholism is not singular. The three people I knew / know had no demons; good jobs, loving and stable families, etc. The one who died simply liked wine and got to like it too much hindered by a naturally addictive personality. The other worked in the music industry at quite a high level. Such was the environment, it was either going to be drink or drugs that he got on board with. Why he should choose either remains unknown but when you’re 18 and you find yourself working in that setting, I guess temptation is strong. And the other bloke was just a twonk!
I assume you are referring to this discussion:
StevieBee said:
The Gauge said:
I work with someone who admits to being an alcoholic. He says he can easily not have a drink but if he has one, he then can’t stop. Once he starts he drinks a lot.
He says the only way to stop drinking is to have a kebab or similar at the end of the night, then he can stop and go to bed.
Your colleague may be many things but alcoholic is not one of them.He says the only way to stop drinking is to have a kebab or similar at the end of the night, then he can stop and go to bed.
What The Gauge was described is someone who occasionally drinks a bit too much. Which truth told, is probably most of us.
Boobonman said:
Hero dose of magic mushrooms, under controlled circumstances obviously. Incredible advances in addiction therapy with pyschedelics at the moment.
While this may be worth a go, I'm rather skeptical of the amazing things being said about psychedelics for this sort of thing; unless you keep the alkie high all the time anyway. Certainly if psychedelics completely stopped drinking I would be tee total...
So from one dubious drug treatment to another - there are coming in anecdotal (and that's all they are) reports that the new fat fighting drugs (wegovy etc) are themselves kind of naturally making people cut down on drinking. Another thing to look at.
Also - from a health perspective it doesn't really matter whether someone is an alcoholic or not, what matters is (basically) the amount of units they're downing and in what time frames. So quibbling about whether they're addicted or not is irrelevant. An "alcoholic" that has 10 units a week cause otherwise they'll go nuts is in a far better place physically than a totally well adjusted non alcoholic who non alcoholically has 3 litres of whisky at the weekend. I suggest that the label itself is a total waste of time.
Edited by Somewhatfoolish on Monday 25th March 00:09
hidetheelephants said:
In the limited trials carried out(trials are very expensive due to insane anti-science drug laws)psychedelics have had very good outcomes for the treatment of alcoholism.
Indeed. I seen to remember watching an hour long programme/short series documenting a handful of people with depression whom were trialling psilocybin mushrooms therapy under the watch of Prof. David Nutt - with very interesting results. A very diverse drug that could possibly treat alcoholism, depression, PTSD etc.But of course - this is the UK - so only cigarettes and tobacco are OK to consume.
Alcoholics need proper, professional help. To try and help them yourself would most likely take every ounce of energy and would be so mentally draining.
I do wish the best to alcoholics - what a nasty addiction and one of the few drugs where the withdrawals can kill. Kind of nuts that it's so freely available in any shop, on just about every road up and down the country. We'd have much better health outcomes if we followed one of the Scandinavian countries whereby only government outlets can sell alcohol with no special deals/discounts for bulk purchasing etc.
On another note, I could recommend Prof. David Nutt's book 'Drink'. Very informative.
StevieBee said:
Baldyboy said:
That’s such crap, you can be an alcoholic without drinking every day, with a level of control it’s not about the repetition or frequency it’s about what it does.
Unfortunately for most alcoholics it’s not about the drink per see it’s about the release, it’s about being able to unshackle yourself from your demons. Whatever helps you’ll abuse. It’s generally about more deep underlying issues. Alcoholics need to find their own path to recovery.
In my experience which includes having lost a close friend to alcoholism and seen the lives of two family members ruined by it, I would suggest the ability to go for any meaningful period of time without alcohol excludes such people from being classified as alcoholic. They may have high levels of alcohol dependency which is a stop or two away from alcoholism but not necessarily alcoholism in itself.Unfortunately for most alcoholics it’s not about the drink per see it’s about the release, it’s about being able to unshackle yourself from your demons. Whatever helps you’ll abuse. It’s generally about more deep underlying issues. Alcoholics need to find their own path to recovery.
The cause of alcoholism is not singular. The three people I knew / know had no demons; good jobs, loving and stable families, etc. The one who died simply liked wine and got to like it too much hindered by a naturally addictive personality. The other worked in the music industry at quite a high level. Such was the environment, it was either going to be drink or drugs that he got on board with. Why he should choose either remains unknown but when you’re 18 and you find yourself working in that setting, I guess temptation is strong. And the other bloke was just a twonk!
I assume you are referring to this discussion:
StevieBee said:
The Gauge said:
I work with someone who admits to being an alcoholic. He says he can easily not have a drink but if he has one, he then can’t stop. Once he starts he drinks a lot.
He says the only way to stop drinking is to have a kebab or similar at the end of the night, then he can stop and go to bed.
Your colleague may be many things but alcoholic is not one of them.He says the only way to stop drinking is to have a kebab or similar at the end of the night, then he can stop and go to bed.
What The Gauge was described is someone who occasionally drinks a bit too much. Which truth told, is probably most of us.
Those aren't just meaningless words. They're an accurate description. Dry alcoholics remain addicted to alcohol. They've just got the addiction under control.
S366 said:
Whilst there are ways of helping an addict(such as the previously mentioned treatment of psychedelics), until they realise they have a problem and want help, there’s unfortunately little that can be done.
And many of the ways that people try to help are counterproductive and facilitate the alcoholic's drinking, directly or indirectly. Some people even become addicted to looking after alcoholics, because it feeds their craving to be needed, to be significant in someone else's life, to have someone to care for.Letting alcoholics hit rock bottom is often the thing that finally convinces them they need to change. What constitutes "rock bottom" varies from person to person, but it can be pretty extreme ... e.g. no job, no home, no access to kids, shunned by friends and family. If your actions stop someone from reaching their rock bottom, then you are not helping them.
Crikey some tragic stories on here, thanks for sharing.
I think my friend is now taking him in at home. As some have suggested I don't think this is a good idea, distance being better but then very difficult to turn away and not try and help. I hope it doesn't backfire on them. Scary as there is not a lot you can do about it it seems other than try and help and hope it isn't too damaging.
I think my friend is now taking him in at home. As some have suggested I don't think this is a good idea, distance being better but then very difficult to turn away and not try and help. I hope it doesn't backfire on them. Scary as there is not a lot you can do about it it seems other than try and help and hope it isn't too damaging.
StevieBee said:
Alcoholics do not recognise their condition or consider themselves to be Alcoholic. Most will strongly and robustly deny the suggestion that they are. Except at the point where they accept the need for help.
What The Gauge was described is someone who occasionally drinks a bit too much. Which truth told, is probably most of us.
What if they have been diagnosed as alcoholics having sought help, surely then they have to recognise themselves a such, if if in denial.What The Gauge was described is someone who occasionally drinks a bit too much. Which truth told, is probably most of us.
My mate doesn't just like to drink 'a bit too much', he'll drink lots on most evenings, including a bottle of whisky. However he is able to have evenings where he doesn't drink at all. But what he can't do is meet someone for a quick pint on the way home from work, such as an office leaving do. If he has the one pint he cant stop there, he has to continue drinking all evening.
As others have mentioned, he has a good job, lovely house, happily married etc. He simply finds it impossible to say 'No" to that 2nd drink.
Having experience of a relative with alcohol/drug problems, unless they really, really want to change, they never will.
And generally, they will drag anyone who shows a bit of caring into the same cesspit with them. Our relative even stole from their Grandmother and has no morals.
All the family have now cut this person off. I would not be surprised to hear they have been found dead in a ditch and no doubt people will question why the family didn't help. Until you have experienced an addict at close hand, do not judge.
And generally, they will drag anyone who shows a bit of caring into the same cesspit with them. Our relative even stole from their Grandmother and has no morals.
All the family have now cut this person off. I would not be surprised to hear they have been found dead in a ditch and no doubt people will question why the family didn't help. Until you have experienced an addict at close hand, do not judge.
My ex wife is an alcoholic and is in a shocking state, filthy, doesn't look after herself, got through a £400,000 inheritance in a couple of years and now begs money off our sons plus is on Universal Credit.
She used to run a very successful company until she was kicked out which just accelerated her journey deeper down the drinking well.
Posh rehabs, holidays at retreats, different drug therapies and very expensive psychiatrists, non of it has worked.
My daughter just travelled 200 miles to be with her for her birthday but after one night came to mine as she says the house is disgusting and that it stinks
The ex planned a dinner yesterday for her birthday bash with our sons, our daughter, and two of her only friends. She texted me an invite but I turned it down knowing that it would be a disaster, as usual. Plus I had to work anyway.
Sadly I was correct. She went out before everyone arrived. The two friends took my kids out to dinner (They are young grown ups) then my lot came back to the house and played monopoly.
Their mum arrived later completely drunk and just went upstairs to order more booze for delivery. She then blacked out in bed, as usual.
My daughter came back to mine.
It's absolutely hopeless and I feel for anyone else having to deal with an alcoholic in the family.
She used to run a very successful company until she was kicked out which just accelerated her journey deeper down the drinking well.
Posh rehabs, holidays at retreats, different drug therapies and very expensive psychiatrists, non of it has worked.
My daughter just travelled 200 miles to be with her for her birthday but after one night came to mine as she says the house is disgusting and that it stinks
The ex planned a dinner yesterday for her birthday bash with our sons, our daughter, and two of her only friends. She texted me an invite but I turned it down knowing that it would be a disaster, as usual. Plus I had to work anyway.
Sadly I was correct. She went out before everyone arrived. The two friends took my kids out to dinner (They are young grown ups) then my lot came back to the house and played monopoly.
Their mum arrived later completely drunk and just went upstairs to order more booze for delivery. She then blacked out in bed, as usual.
My daughter came back to mine.
It's absolutely hopeless and I feel for anyone else having to deal with an alcoholic in the family.
You know having had a small piece of exposure to someone who is an alcoholic. Then reading these stories, I have a new found huge respect for anyone who (I don't know what the proper phrase is) gets out of it. It really is brutal and I guess is a combo of mental and physical dependency. Having gone through some things myself and seeing what trauma does and learning about that, I wonder how that plays into it all.
You know you so desperately want to help but ultimately it has to come from somewhere or other... inside that person. Brutal and tragic. Life can be great but it can be so hard.
You know you so desperately want to help but ultimately it has to come from somewhere or other... inside that person. Brutal and tragic. Life can be great but it can be so hard.
croyde said:
I sadly have the same T shirt.
Wife is a full time alcoholic and has ruined our children's lives and mine too. I don't live with her but unfortunately two of my kids, 18 and 21, insist on living with her. Thus lead a similar lifestyle of doing feck all and lying in their beds all day. The youngest now addicted to drugs.
It has destroyed my health and wealth.
I've tried everything and it nearly ruined me to the point that I couldn't stop thinking about killing myself but luckily I ended up crying my eyes out, 61 years old, in front of a doctor that I'd never seen before, last October.
He put me on antidepressants, I'd always been against the idea, but they have literally saved my life.
All I can do now is try not to get too involved and watch from afar.
I hate alcoholics with a vengeance.
Sorry about your friend, awful place to be
Croyde stay strong. I like reading your posts. You come across as a good bloke Wife is a full time alcoholic and has ruined our children's lives and mine too. I don't live with her but unfortunately two of my kids, 18 and 21, insist on living with her. Thus lead a similar lifestyle of doing feck all and lying in their beds all day. The youngest now addicted to drugs.
It has destroyed my health and wealth.
I've tried everything and it nearly ruined me to the point that I couldn't stop thinking about killing myself but luckily I ended up crying my eyes out, 61 years old, in front of a doctor that I'd never seen before, last October.
He put me on antidepressants, I'd always been against the idea, but they have literally saved my life.
All I can do now is try not to get too involved and watch from afar.
I hate alcoholics with a vengeance.
Sorry about your friend, awful place to be
I read this thread because I have concerns for a friend who's been made redundant and is retiring as a result.
Constantly drinks when not working, consuming a bottle of whisky in 2 days plus beers and can't keep alcohol in the house without drinking it.
No hobbies to speak of, having read these stories, I'm now even more worried as working was the only thing keeping his drinking in check.
Constantly drinks when not working, consuming a bottle of whisky in 2 days plus beers and can't keep alcohol in the house without drinking it.
No hobbies to speak of, having read these stories, I'm now even more worried as working was the only thing keeping his drinking in check.
Motorman74 said:
I read this thread because I have concerns for a friend who's been made redundant and is retiring as a result.
Constantly drinks when not working, consuming a bottle of whisky in 2 days plus beers and can't keep alcohol in the house without drinking it.
No hobbies to speak of, having read these stories, I'm now even more worried as working was the only thing keeping his drinking in check.
Job loss / retirement is a danger point. People have nothing else to do than sit at home and drink.Constantly drinks when not working, consuming a bottle of whisky in 2 days plus beers and can't keep alcohol in the house without drinking it.
No hobbies to speak of, having read these stories, I'm now even more worried as working was the only thing keeping his drinking in check.
Mobile Chicane said:
Job loss / retirement is a danger point. People have nothing else to do than sit at home and drink.
Completely agree, back in 2020 when Covid hit, I was put on furlough and living alone, from this I was drinking nearly everyday. After furlough ended 3 months later, I was working from home and still drinking too much, shortly after I decided to leave my job and start my own business that required so much work and for me to not be working from home that I didn’t have time to have a drink.
If it wasn’t for the work of building my own business, I believe that I would of been taken over by alcoholism. These days(because of what some one call an ‘addictive’ personality), when I feel I’m drinking too much, I just stop and won’t have alcohol for at least a month. I can understand how some can succumb to it though.
I'm probably the opposite of an alcoholic, in that I don't drink at home and have no interest in doing so. I cant think of anything worse than sat at home drinking, seems pointless to me.
I don't go out for a drink much either, but I do enjoy a drink in a pub with others. But its not really the drink I enjoy, in fact I don't really like the taste of most drinks. But I do like the the combination of drinking a few pints and chatting with mates. But there comes a time in the night when I'm just not bothered about drinking any more and just want a kebab and bed.
I don't go out for a drink much either, but I do enjoy a drink in a pub with others. But its not really the drink I enjoy, in fact I don't really like the taste of most drinks. But I do like the the combination of drinking a few pints and chatting with mates. But there comes a time in the night when I'm just not bothered about drinking any more and just want a kebab and bed.
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