Gout and Blood Platelet Donation - Is there a link?
Discussion
After managing to avoid any gout attacks for 3 years up until September of 2010 (apart from a very mild one that I managed to get rid of over 24 hours of serious water drinking) I suffered an attack in August/Sept which took a week or so to clear and then have been suffering a bad attack on and off for the last 3-4 months.
The only thing that has changed in my life was that in May 2010 I started donating blood platelets after many years of being a simple blood donor.
I donated platelets 3 times (approximately 6 weeks apart with first 2 sessions (Beginning of May and mid June) and then had a longer time till the 3rd donation (around Sept/Oct) due to my fist attack of gout which I obviously had to get rid of) and then have not donated since due to the gout that seems to have been with my on and off since then.
On one American web site it lists gout sufferers as one group of people who should not donate platelets (plasma).
I wondered if there are any medical people on here who could confirm that I should not have donated and, more importantly, why? I have heard that gout can be alleviated with plasma injections and wondered if a lack of plasma following a donation could be a cause of an attack of gout.
Thanks
Gary
The only thing that has changed in my life was that in May 2010 I started donating blood platelets after many years of being a simple blood donor.
I donated platelets 3 times (approximately 6 weeks apart with first 2 sessions (Beginning of May and mid June) and then had a longer time till the 3rd donation (around Sept/Oct) due to my fist attack of gout which I obviously had to get rid of) and then have not donated since due to the gout that seems to have been with my on and off since then.
On one American web site it lists gout sufferers as one group of people who should not donate platelets (plasma).
I wondered if there are any medical people on here who could confirm that I should not have donated and, more importantly, why? I have heard that gout can be alleviated with plasma injections and wondered if a lack of plasma following a donation could be a cause of an attack of gout.
Thanks
Gary
Gary,
I found your posting when I googled the topic - exactly one year later!
I'd been donating platelets for about five years when I started to develop gout symptoms, which I have now had for two years. Last week I was diagnosed with gout after a blood test.
I read the literature and began to put two and two together. My uric acid level (445) is not that high and there are plenty of people with higher levels who don't have gout - in fact, 90% of people with raised uric acid levels don't have gout. I understand that the uric acid crystals form when the blood cools - which is why they tend to form at the extremities of the body, e.g. the big toe. Surely the platelet donation process, of extracting the blood from the body for some minutes and allowing it to cool before returning it to the body, is designed to create crystals in donors with higher uric acid levels.
So far, I've not found anyone (medical or otherwise) who can give me an answer. What do you think?
Ed
I found your posting when I googled the topic - exactly one year later!
I'd been donating platelets for about five years when I started to develop gout symptoms, which I have now had for two years. Last week I was diagnosed with gout after a blood test.
I read the literature and began to put two and two together. My uric acid level (445) is not that high and there are plenty of people with higher levels who don't have gout - in fact, 90% of people with raised uric acid levels don't have gout. I understand that the uric acid crystals form when the blood cools - which is why they tend to form at the extremities of the body, e.g. the big toe. Surely the platelet donation process, of extracting the blood from the body for some minutes and allowing it to cool before returning it to the body, is designed to create crystals in donors with higher uric acid levels.
So far, I've not found anyone (medical or otherwise) who can give me an answer. What do you think?
Ed
Eddie12 said:
Gary,
I found your posting when I googled the topic - exactly one year later!
I'd been donating platelets for about five years when I started to develop gout symptoms, which I have now had for two years. Last week I was diagnosed with gout after a blood test.
I read the literature and began to put two and two together. My uric acid level (445) is not that high and there are plenty of people with higher levels who don't have gout - in fact, 90% of people with raised uric acid levels don't have gout. I understand that the uric acid crystals form when the blood cools - which is why they tend to form at the extremities of the body, e.g. the big toe. Surely the platelet donation process, of extracting the blood from the body for some minutes and allowing it to cool before returning it to the body, is designed to create crystals in donors with higher uric acid levels.
So far, I've not found anyone (medical or otherwise) who can give me an answer. What do you think?
Ed
I never got an answer. The blood service said it was not possible for Gout to be activated by platelet donation, but I believe different. I was already a sufferer when I started donating (had been for many years) so a different situation to you and am now on Allopurinol to keep my attacks form re-occurring. I've not heard the cooling explanation before - my understanding is that when you're body has too high a level of uric acid it cannot be ejected by the body and thus crystallises.I found your posting when I googled the topic - exactly one year later!
I'd been donating platelets for about five years when I started to develop gout symptoms, which I have now had for two years. Last week I was diagnosed with gout after a blood test.
I read the literature and began to put two and two together. My uric acid level (445) is not that high and there are plenty of people with higher levels who don't have gout - in fact, 90% of people with raised uric acid levels don't have gout. I understand that the uric acid crystals form when the blood cools - which is why they tend to form at the extremities of the body, e.g. the big toe. Surely the platelet donation process, of extracting the blood from the body for some minutes and allowing it to cool before returning it to the body, is designed to create crystals in donors with higher uric acid levels.
So far, I've not found anyone (medical or otherwise) who can give me an answer. What do you think?
Ed
My research over the years has shown that gout is very personal. Different people have different triggers including Beer, bread, fizzy drinks!!! Go figure that one out
All the best Eddie
Gary,
This weekend, I'll try and dig-out the piece, which said that the crystals formed when blood cooled, and post it here. From memory, I'm sure it came from a legitimate UK medical site.
I'm hoping that by cutting back on alcohol (especially beer) and anything to do with yeast, and by taking vitamin c supplements, I will reduce my uric acid level. If that doesn't work, I'll try medication.
I'll miss not giving platelets, but I can't risk it now. I'd like to go back to giving whole blood - although, as you know, in America, they won't take gout sufferers' blood, because they consider it contaminated by the crystals.
Ed
This weekend, I'll try and dig-out the piece, which said that the crystals formed when blood cooled, and post it here. From memory, I'm sure it came from a legitimate UK medical site.
I'm hoping that by cutting back on alcohol (especially beer) and anything to do with yeast, and by taking vitamin c supplements, I will reduce my uric acid level. If that doesn't work, I'll try medication.
I'll miss not giving platelets, but I can't risk it now. I'd like to go back to giving whole blood - although, as you know, in America, they won't take gout sufferers' blood, because they consider it contaminated by the crystals.
Ed
Eddie12 said:
Gary,
This weekend, I'll try and dig-out the piece, which said that the crystals formed when blood cooled, and post it here. From memory, I'm sure it came from a legitimate UK medical site.
I'm hoping that by cutting back on alcohol (especially beer) and anything to do with yeast, and by taking vitamin c supplements, I will reduce my uric acid level. If that doesn't work, I'll try medication.
I'll miss not giving platelets, but I can't risk it now. I'd like to go back to giving whole blood - although, as you know, in America, they won't take gout sufferers' blood, because they consider it contaminated by the crystals.
Ed
Good luck. I managed through diet and no beer for years but at 48 I needed the medication.This weekend, I'll try and dig-out the piece, which said that the crystals formed when blood cooled, and post it here. From memory, I'm sure it came from a legitimate UK medical site.
I'm hoping that by cutting back on alcohol (especially beer) and anything to do with yeast, and by taking vitamin c supplements, I will reduce my uric acid level. If that doesn't work, I'll try medication.
I'll miss not giving platelets, but I can't risk it now. I'd like to go back to giving whole blood - although, as you know, in America, they won't take gout sufferers' blood, because they consider it contaminated by the crystals.
Ed
Gary,
It didn't take me as long as I expected to find the piece on cooling blood (see below). It comes from the NHS Choices website.
I think my theory still holds water.
Ed
"Susceptibility
Gout attacks occur most frequently in the joints of the feet and hands because the temperature in these joints is often lower than that in the rest of the body, which increases the likelihood of crystals forming.
When uric acid enters your bloodstream, it is carried by a substance called plasma. Plasma is the liquid part of your blood that is responsible for carrying proteins and chemicals. When plasma becomes cooler, the uric acid in your blood separates out from the plasma, allowing it to build up and form into crystals that cause the pain associated with gout.
It is still uncertain, however, why some people are more susceptible to crystal formation and gout than others with equally high blood levels of uric acid. Many people with a high level of uric acid in their blood and tissues never develop gout."
It didn't take me as long as I expected to find the piece on cooling blood (see below). It comes from the NHS Choices website.
I think my theory still holds water.
Ed
"Susceptibility
Gout attacks occur most frequently in the joints of the feet and hands because the temperature in these joints is often lower than that in the rest of the body, which increases the likelihood of crystals forming.
When uric acid enters your bloodstream, it is carried by a substance called plasma. Plasma is the liquid part of your blood that is responsible for carrying proteins and chemicals. When plasma becomes cooler, the uric acid in your blood separates out from the plasma, allowing it to build up and form into crystals that cause the pain associated with gout.
It is still uncertain, however, why some people are more susceptible to crystal formation and gout than others with equally high blood levels of uric acid. Many people with a high level of uric acid in their blood and tissues never develop gout."
I'm not a sufferer (touch wood) but gout is an entirely treatable condition. Doctors seem strangely reluctant to prescribe Allopurinol which if taken regularly completely removes attacks of gout. A very good friend of mine has been taking it for 30 years and is completely gout free after beng a regular sufferer. He is now 75 and all his friends who have suffered have followed this advice and transformed their lives. It works by changing the chemical make-up of Uric Acid to a more soluble form which can be passed in the urine preventing the build up of crystals in the blood. The only side effect is that the taker will experience one further large attack about two months on prescription but once that has finished you will be gout free. Interestingly, I was told by a another doctor friend that effect of your diet has little to do with gout as it can affect people who eat and drink some of the quoted triggers. Just some folk have a higher chance of getting it.
V41LEY said:
I'm not a sufferer (touch wood) but gout is an entirely treatable condition. Doctors seem strangely reluctant to prescribe Allopurinol which if taken regularly completely removes attacks of gout. A very good friend of mine has been taking it for 30 years and is completely gout free after beng a regular sufferer. He is now 75 and all his friends who have suffered have followed this advice and transformed their lives. It works by changing the chemical make-up of Uric Acid to a more soluble form which can be passed in the urine preventing the build up of crystals in the blood. The only side effect is that the taker will experience one further large attack about two months on prescription but once that has finished you will be gout free. Interestingly, I was told by a another doctor friend that effect of your diet has little to do with gout as it can affect people who eat and drink some of the quoted triggers. Just some folk have a higher chance of getting it.
Hi - thanks for the info .... if you see my post a few above I state I am on Allopurinol! It works wonders V41LEY said:
The only side effect is that the taker will experience one further large attack about two months on prescription but once that has finished you will be gout free.
Other than raised blood pressure, stomach problems, skin rash .....Just google Stevens–Johnson syndrome !
Doctors prescribe it because it is very cheap, and works well enough for some (including me). But there are better drugs for gout about (one was in the news only last week).
Nor did I. Although think is less prevalent now, maybe because the gradually increase the dose.
It appears that if you rapidly decrease uric acid levels, then you can trigger attacks as the body's "stores" of urate crystals can now dissolve. Or something.
Still have twinges in the foot, but that is hopefully just joint damage
It appears that if you rapidly decrease uric acid levels, then you can trigger attacks as the body's "stores" of urate crystals can now dissolve. Or something.
Still have twinges in the foot, but that is hopefully just joint damage
Gary,
After some correspondence with the Blood Service, they eventually gave me three reasons why my theory was wrong:-
1/ If uric acid crystals are formed outside the body during the platelet donation process, then they would dissolve when they entered the warmth of the blood stream.
2/ Crystals in the blood stream cannot pass through the blood vessel walls into the joints.
3/ The crystals which cause gout are actually formed in the fluid of the affected joint.
If any or all of these explanations are correct, then my theory no longer holds water.
However, the Blood Service, having finally answered my question, have ceased correspondence before I could ask them for the source/s of these three explanations. So I am now searching the web for a specialist, who can confirm that they are correct.
I will let you know when I find out more, but, for the time being, I won't be donating.
Best wishes,
Ed
After some correspondence with the Blood Service, they eventually gave me three reasons why my theory was wrong:-
1/ If uric acid crystals are formed outside the body during the platelet donation process, then they would dissolve when they entered the warmth of the blood stream.
2/ Crystals in the blood stream cannot pass through the blood vessel walls into the joints.
3/ The crystals which cause gout are actually formed in the fluid of the affected joint.
If any or all of these explanations are correct, then my theory no longer holds water.
However, the Blood Service, having finally answered my question, have ceased correspondence before I could ask them for the source/s of these three explanations. So I am now searching the web for a specialist, who can confirm that they are correct.
I will let you know when I find out more, but, for the time being, I won't be donating.
Best wishes,
Ed
Gary,
I've been in touch with the Gout Society and they essentially agree with the Blood Service view.
However, I also emailed a gout specialist at the University of Lausanne (Fabio Martinon) and he sent me the following interesting reply:-
"I do not think there is any evidence that platelet donation can cause gout or uric acid crystal deposition in the joints. I'm not really familiar with uric acid crystallization, but I cannot see how this could happen and I do not think there is a direct link here. However for in a patient that already suffer gout and crystal deposition, there is a possibility that a stressful event or rapid temperature changes can in rare cases contribute to the initiation of the inflammatory reaction and the triggering of an episode of gout."
The last sentence makes interesting reading. I wonder how "rare" these cases might be?
Ed
I've been in touch with the Gout Society and they essentially agree with the Blood Service view.
However, I also emailed a gout specialist at the University of Lausanne (Fabio Martinon) and he sent me the following interesting reply:-
"I do not think there is any evidence that platelet donation can cause gout or uric acid crystal deposition in the joints. I'm not really familiar with uric acid crystallization, but I cannot see how this could happen and I do not think there is a direct link here. However for in a patient that already suffer gout and crystal deposition, there is a possibility that a stressful event or rapid temperature changes can in rare cases contribute to the initiation of the inflammatory reaction and the triggering of an episode of gout."
The last sentence makes interesting reading. I wonder how "rare" these cases might be?
Ed
Hello,
I am 36 years old and have a family history of gout. However, I'm am the youngest to ever be diagnosed with having it my family. I had my first gout episode in August 2012 at the age of 35. I donated plasma on 8/02/2012 and contracted gout on the 8th, 6 days after plasma donation. I should add I drank beer, had shrimp a lot of them, and red meat after donation. Neverless, I have began to eat and drink these things very much more moderately since my attack stopped, began exercise and lost 10 lbs and I haven't had a attack since. My attack lasted 21 days and was acute and very painful, I couldn't wear a shoe for much of the attack. I started with endomethacin to no avail during the first week. In the middle of the second week I was prescribed methylprednisolone 4mg dose packs and noticed slow gradually decline in inflammation of my left big toe. I want to donate plasma but have the same theory you do. I wanted to share this to experience to add to your theory.
I am 36 years old and have a family history of gout. However, I'm am the youngest to ever be diagnosed with having it my family. I had my first gout episode in August 2012 at the age of 35. I donated plasma on 8/02/2012 and contracted gout on the 8th, 6 days after plasma donation. I should add I drank beer, had shrimp a lot of them, and red meat after donation. Neverless, I have began to eat and drink these things very much more moderately since my attack stopped, began exercise and lost 10 lbs and I haven't had a attack since. My attack lasted 21 days and was acute and very painful, I couldn't wear a shoe for much of the attack. I started with endomethacin to no avail during the first week. In the middle of the second week I was prescribed methylprednisolone 4mg dose packs and noticed slow gradually decline in inflammation of my left big toe. I want to donate plasma but have the same theory you do. I wanted to share this to experience to add to your theory.
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