How long till the £20k Evora?

[RobM77]

blueg33 said:

Lazydonkey said:

They aren't necessarily cheaper but they appear a slightly harder sell for the dealers so maybe more of a deal available.

isn't that the same thing

Not necessarily; some cars are worth the money, just to a rare customer, so if the dealer has space, it can pay to hang on to the car until it sells.

blueg33 said:

I guess a 2+2 offers more flexibility than a 2+0, its why I went for a 2+2. I would have bought a 911 if the Evora was not available as a 2+2, I guess that makes the price of a 2+0 irrelevant in my case

I owned a 2+2 years ago and people would keep asking for lifts to places and then spend the whole time moaning about the lack of space, or asking me to put my seat forward so that I could barely drive anymore; I got fed up with it in the end. Plus there's the weight and slight space penalty for having rear seats - 2+0 for me anyday, although I must admit, I'd rather the engine was further forward and the boot was bigger.

[Shnozz]

RobM77 said:

I owned a 2+2 years ago and people would keep asking for lifts to places and then spend the whole time moaning about the lack of space, or asking me to put my seat forward so that I could barely drive anymore; I got fed up with it in the end. Plus there's the weight and slight space penalty for having rear seats - 2+0 for me anyday, although I must admit, I'd rather the engine was further forward and the boot was bigger.

A contrarian attitude but when I saw who posted it I wasn't surprised.

2+0 seems to bring little to the table other than trouble your resale. I have no need at all for rear seats but they provide the same luggage space as the shelf and if I really need the extra 4" or whatever the depth of the seat base is, I can just remove the base of the rear seat anyway - its held on in typical Lotus fashion by a strip of velcro. If you're noticing the weight penalty of the rear seat back and a couple of belts than you're a greater driver than me, but no doubt you'll let me know that the seat back upsets the balance of the car.

I'd only buy a 2+0 if it were a fair chunk cheaper than the 2+2 and I cannot help but think that attitude will continue among future buyers and thus the circle is repeated.

[RobM77]

Shnozz said:

RobM77 said:

I owned a 2+2 years ago and people would keep asking for lifts to places and then spend the whole time moaning about the lack of space, or asking me to put my seat forward so that I could barely drive anymore; I got fed up with it in the end. Plus there's the weight and slight space penalty for having rear seats - 2+0 for me anyday, although I must admit, I'd rather the engine was further forward and the boot was bigger.

A contrarian attitude but when I saw who posted it I wasn't surprised.

2+0 seems to bring little to the table other than trouble your resale. I have no need at all for rear seats but they provide the same luggage space as the shelf and if I really need the extra 4" or whatever the depth of the seat base is, I can just remove the base of the rear seat anyway - its held on in typical Lotus fashion by a strip of velcro. If you're noticing the weight penalty of the rear seat back and a couple of belts than you're a greater driver than me, but no doubt you'll let me know that the seat back upsets the balance of the car.

I'd only buy a 2+0 if it were a fair chunk cheaper than the 2+2 and I cannot help but think that attitude will continue among future buyers and thus the circle is repeated.

Sorry if I offended you by being contrary, but it wasn't because I was trying deliberately (and I hope I never do), I just happen to have a different view on 2+2s to you and perhaps most people, because unlike most people in the market for this sort of car I don't have children or children on the way, so I don't need rear passenger seats. As I said above, my main reason for getting fed up with my 2+2 was that I just got fed up with people asking for a lift and then moaning the whole way that it was uncomfortable and they didn't fit etc. My sister reached a similar state of frustration with her Audi TT, as does a lady I work with who also has a TT. It was actually quite a relief when I got a two seater. I'm not trying to pretend my reasons are representative of most people, because most people have kids and that's the reason for most 2+2s. For those of us without kids though, it's just annoying because we never use the rear seats for seating people. Lotus, like most manufacturers, seem to think that if you don't have rear passengers to carry (i.e. children), then you want a small boot and a noisier car (Exige), or a huge heavy GT (928 etc). The Esprit and perhaps the NSX are some of the few cars I can think of to buck that trend.

Edited by RobM77 on Wednesday 13th May 15:12

[Shnozz]

Tell them "no, you can't have a lift".

To buy a car with a more limited market on the basis of that is ridiculous.

I have no children and neither want any. I don't have a wife. I rarely carry even 1 passenger in my car.

Would I buy the model that had a limited audience when selling it on, or the one that opened up a huge % more buyers because, as you say, "most" people in are in the market for the reasons you identify. No, I'd tell my mates when first asked that they can't have a lift as the rear seats are for <5 year old kids. If they were extremely fit, blonde and under 5'10" I might make a concession. Once they've been told once, they won't ask again unless they are slow on the uptake.

[RobM77]

What about the people who bought 2+0 Evoras from new then? They would stand to lose a lot more money than me on resale. Surely your reasoning would make them even more ridiculous?

I'll admit that resale is always a consideration with a car, but it needs to be balanced against getting the car you want. This also applies to colour or manual/auto gearboxes; for example I prefer the BMW manual gearbox to their auto, but it makes no sense from a resale perspective to buy a 5 series with a manual box because virtually everyone wants the auto box. Similarly with colour: I happen to like subtle colours, but many people order bright orange Exiges etc - if they want it then they just have to pay the dues when they sell it on. I think we're all intelligent enough to make our own decisions on balancing up the spec we want an its resale value, and most people spending Evora money on a car must be capable of that reasoning surely?

[Shnozz]

On reflection, a 2+0 Evora would suit you. Go for it.

[LotusOmega375D]

I'm the perfect Evora 2+2 owner. Average height, relatively short legs, married, with two young children. Jesus, I'm really not much of a catch when you think about it...

I would not have bought either of my Evoras if they were 2+0.

[stuno1]

Have to admit I am another typical 2+2 buyer and understand why 2+0 variants are cheaper. If wanted a 2 seater I'd probably buy a different car. The 4 seats and alternative to the 911 are what drew me to the car and that will be the same for many others.

Stu

[CTE]

I paid less for m 2.+0 second hand and the new price is less, so yes the resale is less...

[Toaster]

RobM77 said:

Shnozz said:

RobM77 said:

I owned a 2+2 years ago and people would keep asking for lifts to places and then spend the whole time moaning about the lack of space, or asking me to put my seat forward so that I could barely drive anymore; I got fed up with it in the end. Plus there's the weight and slight space penalty for having rear seats - 2+0 for me anyday, although I must admit, I'd rather the engine was further forward and the boot was bigger.

A contrarian attitude but when I saw who posted it I wasn't surprised.

2+0 seems to bring little to the table other than trouble your resale. I have no need at all for rear seats but they provide the same luggage space as the shelf and if I really need the extra 4" or whatever the depth of the seat base is, I can just remove the base of the rear seat anyway - its held on in typical Lotus fashion by a strip of velcro. If you're noticing the weight penalty of the rear seat back and a couple of belts than you're a greater driver than me, but no doubt you'll let me know that the seat back upsets the balance of the car.

I'd only buy a 2+0 if it were a fair chunk cheaper than the 2+2 and I cannot help but think that attitude will continue among future buyers and thus the circle is repeated.

Sorry if I offended you by being contrary, but it wasn't because I was trying deliberately (and I hope I never do), I just happen to have a different view on 2+2s to you and perhaps most people, because unlike most people in the market for this sort of car I don't have children or children on the way, so I don't need rear passenger seats. As I said above, my main reason for getting fed up with my 2+2 was that I just got fed up with people asking for a lift and then moaning the whole way that it was uncomfortable and they didn't fit etc. My sister reached a similar state of frustration with her Audi TT, as does a lady I work with who also has a TT. It was actually quite a relief when I got a two seater. I'm not trying to pretend my reasons are representative of most people, because most people have kids and that's the reason for most 2+2s. For those of us without kids though, it's just annoying because we never use the rear seats for seating people. Lotus, like most manufacturers, seem to think that if you don't have rear passengers to carry (i.e. children), then you want a small boot and a noisier car (Exige), or a huge heavy GT (928 etc). The Esprit and perhaps the NSX are some of the few cars I can think of to buck that trend.

Edited by RobM77 on Wednesday 13th May 15:12

I have a 2+0 and do not have an issue not having rear seats and when you think about it most cars only have a small % of time with more than one person inside. Most homes have more than one car

Families with Children pay a premium for going on Holliday at school holiday times so it only seems fair they should pay for the extra seats however it doesn't make a +2 a better car, (just remember to take the sick bags as the kids may just throw up if they are in the confined space and you drive quickly)

[Lazydonkey]

RobM77 said:

What about the people who bought 2+0 Evoras from new then? They would stand to lose a lot more money than me on resale.

+2 was a £2.5k more than the +0 at launch.

So arguably you wouldn't lose money on resale but it would always be x% cheaper.

[blueg33]

Lazydonkey said:

+2 was a £2.5k more than the +0 at launch.

Expensive bit of foam and leather, (or cloth if non premium pack).

[RobM77]

Lazydonkey said:

RobM77 said:

What about the people who bought 2+0 Evoras from new then? They would stand to lose a lot more money than me on resale.

+2 was a £2.5k more than the +0 at launch.

So arguably you wouldn't lose money on resale but it would always be x% cheaper.

I personally don't know, which is why I joined the thread, to ask about it; it was Shnozz's point that it was 'ridiculous' to buy a 2+0 due to the resale value.

[Shnozz]

RobM77 said:

Lazydonkey said:

RobM77 said:

What about the people who bought 2+0 Evoras from new then? They would stand to lose a lot more money than me on resale.

+2 was a £2.5k more than the +0 at launch.

So arguably you wouldn't lose money on resale but it would always be x% cheaper.

I personally don't know, which is why I joined the thread, to ask about it; it was Shnozz's point that it was 'ridiculous' to buy a 2+0 due to the resale value.

Usual RobM77 claptrap.

What I actually said was your reasoning was ridiculous in choosing the 2+0 because your tire of your friends (I'm shocked..) making continuous requests for a lift in the back.

I don't wish to labour the point, suffice to say I would happily buy a 2+0 if it were significantly cheaper than the 2+2 comparable. I would not pay the same for the 2 cars because one eliminates a proportion of the resale market and often needs to undercut the 2+2 comparable because of a lesser market.

What I would not do is choose the 2+0 because I couldn't tell my mates to FRO when they asked for a lift. Or tell them to stop being a whiney little b1tch when they are shoved in the back or they can get out and walk...

I'm only surprised I haven't seen a reference to your racing pedigree among this post. Yet.

[RobM77]

Shnozz said:

RobM77 said:

Lazydonkey said:

RobM77 said:

What about the people who bought 2+0 Evoras from new then? They would stand to lose a lot more money than me on resale.

+2 was a £2.5k more than the +0 at launch.

So arguably you wouldn't lose money on resale but it would always be x% cheaper.

I personally don't know, which is why I joined the thread, to ask about it; it was Shnozz's point that it was 'ridiculous' to buy a 2+0 due to the resale value.

Usual RobM77 claptrap.

What I actually said was your reasoning was ridiculous in choosing the 2+0 because your tire of your friends (I'm shocked..) making continuous requests for a lift in the back.

I don't wish to labour the point, suffice to say I would happily buy a 2+0 if it were significantly cheaper than the 2+2 comparable. I would not pay the same for the 2 cars because one eliminates a proportion of the resale market and often needs to undercut the 2+2 comparable because of a lesser market.

What I would not do is choose the 2+0 because I couldn't tell my mates to FRO when they asked for a lift. Or tell them to stop being a whiney little b1tch when they are shoved in the back or they can get out and walk...

I'm only surprised I haven't seen a reference to your racing pedigree among this post. Yet.

Do you have to be so abrasive and insulting? This was a pretty civil and informative discussion.

[moribund]

Whoa guys! Please don't derail the thread. I need it to stay active so I know when an Evora has dropped within reach of my piddly budget.

[Lazydonkey]

moribund said:

so I know when an Evora has dropped within reach of my piddly budget.

Hasn't yet.

HTH




p.s Joking aside if it helps this thread we could update it SELOC tracker stylee with the PH counts.

14th May - 50 cars on PH, Cheapest RHD car is £29,990.

Edited by Lazydonkey on Thursday 14th May 13:34

Edited by Lazydonkey on Thursday 14th May 13:34

[Toaster]

Shnozz said:

Usual RobM77 claptrap.

What I actually said was your reasoning was ridiculous in choosing the 2+0 because your tire of your friends (I'm shocked..) making continuous requests for a lift in the back.

I don't wish to labour the point, suffice to say I would happily buy a 2+0 if it were significantly cheaper than the 2+2 comparable. I would not pay the same for the 2 cars because one eliminates a proportion of the resale market and often needs to undercut the 2+2 comparable because of a lesser market.

What I would not do is choose the 2+0 because I couldn't tell my mates to FRO when they asked for a lift. Or tell them to stop being a whiney little b1tch when they are shoved in the back or they can get out and walk...

'Mates' as a reason to buy a +2 I would respectively suggest is more about Ego and sounds a bit shallow, I also doubt if you will ever get a +0 'significantly cheaper' Porsche and others do very well selling 2 seaters so whilst some may never purchase one there are plenty of people who would £174,990 and only two seats http://www.pistonheads.com/classifieds/used-cars/m...

so by your rational a +0 with all the packs but no rear seat 'should' be less than a base +2 with no or limited options......now thats an interesting thought. But a +0 and +2 with equal packs will probably sell between £1 and 1.5K differential (No Ego involved)

[Toaster]

moribund said:

Whoa guys! Please don't derail the thread. I need it to stay active so I know when an Evora has dropped within reach of my piddly budget.

£20K will buy you one of these, http://www.pistonheads.com/classifieds/used-cars/l... and I have a feeling that now the Evora has dropped it may hover around the High £30K's for a while yet

[Shnozz]

Toaster said:

'Mates' as a reason to buy a +2 I would respectively suggest is more about Ego and sounds a bit shallow, I also doubt if you will ever get a +0 'significantly cheaper' Porsche and others do very well selling 2 seaters so whilst some may never purchase one there are plenty of people who would £174,990 and only two seats http://www.pistonheads.com/classifieds/used-cars/m...

so by your rational a +0 with all the packs but no rear seat 'should' be less than a base +2 with no or limited options......now thats an interesting thought. But a +0 and +2 with equal packs will probably sell between £1 and 1.5K differential (No Ego involved)

What on earth are you on about?! I must be sending some subliminal messages that aren't reflected in what I am typing.

I never said I bought a +2 so I have room for my mates. I couldn't give a toss about carrying my mates and unless they were vertically challenged they'd never stand a chance at getting in the back of an Evora.

What I in fact said was choosing a +0 on the basis you don't have to say no to giving friends lifts is a very odd prime factor in decision making. Perhaps its just me but when deciding criteria of importance when car buying I don't factor in "will I get numerous requests for lifts that I cannot decline?".

As for the link, I am not sure I'm with you either. People will pay £10m for a 2 seater. I'm not suggesting otherwise. However, in the Evoras case there isn't really any benefit to the +0. It's the same car, simply without a seat base and back resting behind the front seats. That is a different proposition to most marques where the 2 seat version of a 4 seat car is such because it offers some added benefit, it's quicker, sportier, track-orientated, whatever. How many other cars can you identify that have a 2 seat and 4 seat version in the same body with no performance advantage to the 2 seater?

And again, I am baffled as to your conclusion about how a specced +0 would be less than a +2 or whatever. Bizarre. In the same vein, I wouldn't expect a 2014 Evora +0 to be worth less than a 2009 +2....

What I am saying is all things being equal, I would expect a +0 to be less than a +2. Because there are less buyers and will always be less buyers. So the same spec car, the same year, colour, whatever, would be comparatively less, IMHO.

And I would agree that you aren't likely to get one "significantly cheaper". Which is why I didn't bother and went for a +2. For the price difference I simply saw no reason to buy a +0, although I have no use for the rear seats at all.

I would also agree with the price variance you observe.

Aside from £1k - £1500 in your sky rocket, and not having to explain to friends why you cannot give them a lift in a bizarre world of everyone you know with a 2+2 being besieged with such a problem, what is the benefit to aiming for a 2.0? Genuine q.