Evora vs the alternatives

Evora vs the alternatives

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The Wookie

13,949 posts

228 months

Tuesday 16th May 2023
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C70R said:
How would the Evora cope with living outside? I'd expect any of the Germans in my list to take it in their stride, but I'm unsure on how the Evora would deal with it.
Mine were fine although expect a few bits of black plastic trim to degrade and possibly crack (e.g. A-pillars, tailgate hinge cover). That said I was lucky in that neither of my cars leaked at all which I know isn't universal.

For some reason the idle was sometimes a bit grumpy on cold start for a few seconds if they'd been left in really heavy rain overnight but not really an issue if you wait for it to settle. The Emira is exactly the same which is also odd.

The Wookie

13,949 posts

228 months

Tuesday 16th May 2023
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CABC said:
yes, they do slide predictably laugh
it's a personal choice, I just like light & agile. and while the Evora was rolling on track the quality of its chassis was clear, which is why it was just superb on the Welsh B roads. I find the Evora's competition and the highly rated modern hatches too heavy as well.
I know I'm different, if I do a Palmer day most people get excited about the BMWs!
Absolutely different strokes for different folks! I tend to like a big soft car to bully around and manage the weight. To an extent I have the same preference even with racing cars as long as the weight is in the right places!

giveitfish

4,031 posts

214 months

Tuesday 16th May 2023
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The Wookie said:
Mine were fine although expect a few bits of black plastic trim to degrade and possibly crack (e.g. A-pillars, tailgate hinge cover). That said I was lucky in that neither of my cars leaked at all which I know isn't universal.

For some reason the idle was sometimes a bit grumpy on cold start for a few seconds if they'd been left in really heavy rain overnight but not really an issue if you wait for it to settle. The Emira is exactly the same which is also odd.
Your white SR lived outside and leaked a bit when I had it, but that might be because my drive is steeply sloped!

For what it’s worth, I was nodding to myself in agreement reading s2jock’s post. For me the Evora was a special car and I hanker for another - but it would be for road trips and touring and I’d want to keep my Elise for b-road blasts. The Elise makes me want to get up at 5am on a sunny Sunday, the Evora is the one I want to drive to Switzerland (I did just that in fact: https://www.pistonheads.com/gassing/topic.asp?h=0&... )



C70R

Original Poster:

17,596 posts

104 months

Tuesday 16th May 2023
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giveitfish said:
Your white SR lived outside and leaked a bit when I had it, but that might be because my drive is steeply sloped!

For what it’s worth, I was nodding to myself in agreement reading s2jock’s post. For me the Evora was a special car and I hanker for another - but it would be for road trips and touring and I’d want to keep my Elise for b-road blasts. The Elise makes me want to get up at 5am on a sunny Sunday, the Evora is the one I want to drive to Switzerland (I did just that in fact: https://www.pistonheads.com/gassing/topic.asp?h=0&... )
Well, that's my reading sorted for a little while. Thanks!

I'm not planning to go as far South as you did, as it made for a beastly first day of driving! However, we're spending July just outside of Lille, so I have the added advantage of a slightly better starting point!

s2kjock

1,686 posts

147 months

Tuesday 16th May 2023
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To be honest I'd not be too keen to keep mine outside - my boot did leak, and despite replacing the seal continued to leak for the limited time it spent outside. The dealer fix was to adjust the latch so it tightened more on closure - and now one of the struts marks the engine cover slightly.

Welcome to Norfolk biggrin

I don't know how the paintwork and headlamps would stand up to prolonged outside life - mine looks good but it doesn't get out to play much which helps.


blueg33

35,910 posts

224 months

Wednesday 17th May 2023
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The Wookie said:
C70R said:
How would the Evora cope with living outside? I'd expect any of the Germans in my list to take it in their stride, but I'm unsure on how the Evora would deal with it.
Mine were fine although expect a few bits of black plastic trim to degrade and possibly crack (e.g. A-pillars, tailgate hinge cover). That said I was lucky in that neither of my cars leaked at all which I know isn't universal.

For some reason the idle was sometimes a bit grumpy on cold start for a few seconds if they'd been left in really heavy rain overnight but not really an issue if you wait for it to settle. The Emira is exactly the same which is also odd.
Both my Evoras lived outside and were used as a daily, even in snow. My cars didn’t leak either, caused me no problems apart from the A pillar trim (I still have a pair!)

C70R

Original Poster:

17,596 posts

104 months

Wednesday 17th May 2023
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Contrasting experiences there, which I guess is the nature of low-volume cars. It did get me wondering whether something German might be a slightly better idea while I don't have a garage.

CABC

5,579 posts

101 months

Wednesday 17th May 2023
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C70R said:
CABC said:
The Wookie said:
It's funny, I always really enjoyed the S1 Evoras on track (although never driven an S2 on track), but then I always preferred the Elises to the Exiges on track too!

They're soft and they roll a bit, but you can manage the weight transfer nicely with them, and they powerslide hilariously well, particularly for a mid engined car... though the rear tyres don't last too long if you do!
yes, they do slide predictably laugh
it's a personal choice, I just like light & agile. and while the Evora was rolling on track the quality of its chassis was clear, which is why it was just superb on the Welsh B roads. I find the Evora's competition and the highly rated modern hatches too heavy as well.
I know I'm different, if I do a Palmer day most people get excited about the BMWs!
What's the actual kerb weight of the original car? I only ask because the Boxster and Cayman seem to be in the same ballpark as the figures I've seen.
it's the location of the weight. a flat 6 is a wonderful configuration.
I'd like to hear Wookie's opinion on this. I felt the rear was rolling a lot in extremis, but as I was already aware of this cog criticism from the internet my less than expert opinion is corrupted! Not a problem at fast road speeds.

TrotCanterGallopCharge

423 posts

90 months

Wednesday 17th May 2023
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My 2p, I had a S2 Evora SC with all the 'packs' , so effectively an SR & Mk3 4.5 Chim.

I'm 6ft 3". The Evora is designed for up to 6ft 5". I fitted in on a trackday with crash helmet with the later seats. As others have said, the earlier seats may give different/better headroom. The S1 n/a Evora will have cheaper tyres (due to smaller wheels) & better fuel economy (& tax?). My SC did 20mpg pootling & never saw above 25mpg. S1 Evoras have quirks like the aircon unit being behind the rear seat/shelf bulkhead which is difficult to access, so a lot of money. In the S2 cars, they put a access panel in the bulkhead. If the car sits a lot of the time, the aircon pumps give up. Check if any car has been sat around a long time, as aircon units can go, & batteries fail, which can affect other electrics, which may need a Dealer reset (which happened to me). Check if the steering rack has had any work, or if clutch has been replaced, as others have said a £3k job. Check also radio reception.

S1 cars also originally had more aggressive handling, which will lead to a lot higher tyre wear (which also happened to my S2, but this can be dialled out). S1 N/A cars were able to get onto a Goodwood trackday.

You say 'base' Evora, but all the Launch Editions had all 3 'packs', or do you just mean N/A version?

I test drove a n/a & SC car close together. The n/a car felt like an ordinary car with fancy clothes, the SC car felt (& sounded) far more like the car it looked like. However 0-60 times are very close, so if you use the gearbox, you should actually get similar speeds.

My Evora SC was taken from the south of England to Croatia on a road trip by first owner, which he said he enjoyed.
My standard garage door opening & internal wall dimension was quite tight for the Evora, I could barely get through doors & then out inside.

At the time, I thought the SC was the better car, due to the noise & extra torque, with hindsight, I'm now not sure. It weighed about 75kg more (S1 1350- S2 SC 1425kg?). They are more sporty GT cars than true sports cars due to weight. If you don't have all the 'packs', you can save weight, also with battery, wheels, brakes, exhaust, even the boot lid.

After the Lotus dealer warranty ran out (check very carefully what they're actually providing & for how long), I couldn't find a independent warranty that covered all of the electrical items of the car, i.e I don't think the reversing camera was covered, despite it being the most comprehensive I could find. If you don't want all the packs anyway, to reduce weight/complexity, then this may not be an issue.

My S2 didn't seem to leak in rain, but when washing with a sponge, a small amount of water did get onto the inside drivers & passenger windows through the top seals. Like any previously owned car, you'll have to check for evidence of leaks. When you lift the boot lid, water does go everywhere anyway. Possible good quality hood/cap for rainy days?

Evora seemed like the Starship Enterprise/mini Le Mans racer compared to the Chim in fit, finish & tech. Chim had enough room & comfortable, but no aircon made for unpleasant cruising if the boot was full & roof was on, especially in traffic jams or summer heat. The Chim took road imperfections better, as it would effectively drive right over them, the Evora steering wheel was constantly twitching, but you can supposedly drive it with your fingertips.

I also tried the Cayman 987s at Thruxton, they felt nimble with enough power.

Perhaps an Exige Roadster could suit you also, lighter, more 'sporty', roof can be removed & some comforts to help with touring? Cockpit maybe too small though.

TVR Tamora is a more modern, better handling version of the Chim. You will have to check cockpit size as I'm not sure they were as big as the Chim. I couldn't fit in a T350 well, my eyeline was right on the top of the windscreen. You can remove the seat squab/base on some cars though.
Higher top end power but less torque, & more expensive to run. Chim is a parts bin of other mainstream cars, so cheaper for parts. TVR RFL is also PLG category, so cheap for the engine size/power (helps to make up for fuel used). Speed 6 rasp instead of V8 burble. It should be better built than the Chim, but can still have the TVR niggle factor, it will depend on the how the owners have looked after them, as they are quite old cars now, & you will need to check out the Speed 6 engine provenance & any chassis work (or lack of it) carefully. Also check if alarm has been upgraded. Chim has no side impact or roll over protection, think the Tamora may have side impact, but not sure.

A German car 'may' be better if living outside, but it depends on what life it's led, you'll also have to sell on, so possibly losing money in the process, rather than getting what you really want. Z4/Z4M will tour, but not as good on the handling/involvement front (Boxster is better), especially on original run flat tyres.

Unless you do work yourself, a local good Indy/Dealer is critical. For TVR work you have Matt Smith in Norfolk.

Must be a good Lotus Car Club scene in Norfolk you could visit/join?! An owner with a good car may take you out/have a good condition car to sell as well?

Hope you find the car you're looking for & enjoy many happy miles!




TrotCanterGallopCharge

423 posts

90 months

Wednesday 17th May 2023
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p.s Evora gearchange was also a weak link, that gets better on the later cars. There was a kit/adjustment for it as well.

C70R

Original Poster:

17,596 posts

104 months

Wednesday 17th May 2023
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That's an absolute goldmine of helpful stuff. Thank you.

When I say "cooking" Evora, I mean the early n/a car. I hadn't gone as far as researching 'packs' yet, and suspect I'm probably not going to get to be choosy at this end of the price spectrum.

The Exige is too small and compromised for touring, in my view. I'm just not comfortable in something so claustrophobic. The Chimera was too unrefined for long-distance touring, particularly in the summer - so that's out for me.

The Tamora is a bit of an outlier, and not a very 'me' car. I've very little 'modern' TVR experience, save for a few intoxicating miles in the passenger seat of a Tuscan S. I love the way they look, and it's hard to look past the performance they offer.

The Z4M appeals in the same way that a Corvette appeals (if I could live with LHD). Not the last word in handling finesse, but fantastic wallop in a straight line and relatively easy to live with (it's basically my car with a different drivetrain). The Boxster and Cayman are the better-handling and more grown-up versions of the Z4M, in my view.

Lots to think about.

blueg33

35,910 posts

224 months

Wednesday 17th May 2023
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TrotCanterGallopCharge said:
Lots of great stuff

I have one comment - where the n/a evora may be closeish 0-60 to a SC car, the S is much much quicker 50-70 etc. But I dont really agree with the 0-60, its something like 5.5 secs in the na vs 4.5 in the SC. The 400 is a tad quicker again

The Wookie

13,949 posts

228 months

Wednesday 17th May 2023
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CABC said:
it's the location of the weight. a flat 6 is a wonderful configuration.
I'd like to hear Wookie's opinion on this. I felt the rear was rolling a lot in extremis, but as I was already aware of this cog criticism from the internet my less than expert opinion is corrupted! Not a problem at fast road speeds.
To be fair the CofG was always an issue in the GT4 racing cars (the balance was good when setup right but it was very heavy on rear tyres) but I never felt it was too detrimental to the road cars. I'd always assumed it was because the bulk of the rest of the weight in the car is low and there isn't much heavy stuff up top compared to something like a Cayman. Also worth pointing out that the contemporary Cayman made a rubbish GT4 car!

IMHO the S1 Evoras roll because they're quite softly sprung and although you could certainly use the weight of the engine I never felt like it dominated the handling of the car, even on track. Contrast the V6 Exige which, being a lighter car with a shorter wheelbase, I always felt the engine to be noticeable. I could never shake the sensation that it was high and trying to overtake you on a trail brake. Despite their popularity I never liked them, particularly compared to the old 4 cylinder ones which were fantastic.

I think a lot of what many people notice in terms of the handling of the Evora could be attributed to the longitudinal weight distribution and the sort of dynamic setup that tends to result from it. The Evora is not far off a 911 which often have a rolly oversteery sensation in extremis, despite the engine having a low CofG.

Caveat: all my subjective opinion and it's been a while since I've driven one on track, let alone done any proper dynamics work! Also I never actually worked on the dynamics of road product when I was there so I don't know the underlying numbers to know how each car stacks up and how much work they did to mitigate any shortcomings.

The Wookie

13,949 posts

228 months

Wednesday 17th May 2023
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TrotCanterGallopCharge said:
p.s Evora gearchange was also a weak link, that gets better on the later cars. There was a kit/adjustment for it as well.
Yep, MY12 onwards would be my preference, the general fit and finish took a step up too

The Wookie

13,949 posts

228 months

Wednesday 17th May 2023
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giveitfish said:
Your white SR lived outside and leaked a bit when I had it, but that might be because my drive is steeply sloped!
That's disappointing! The worst I ever experienced was a dribble onto the sill when I was driving it in almost monsoon rain on my way to Le Mans once!

I vaguely the window pitch angle adjustment being important, perhaps they need adjusting periodically

Matty_

2,012 posts

257 months

Wednesday 17th May 2023
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Evora is the only car I've ever owned that I'd happily buy again. Currently in the market for a nice Evora 400 but I'm seeing where the prices go once the Emira i4 starts to appear.

FWIW mine never leaked either and spent the majority of the time on the driveway (sloped slightly, nose down...if that helps at all!)

Also, I had the NA car with the longer box...and loved it. Never felt like it lacked power, and that loooooong 6th made motorway driving an absolute breeze. Also had the benefit of not shi**ing 4/5/6th like the CR box used to (albeit rarely).

TrotCanterGallopCharge

423 posts

90 months

Wednesday 17th May 2023
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C70R said:
That's an absolute goldmine of helpful stuff. Thank you.

When I say "cooking" Evora, I mean the early n/a car. I hadn't gone as far as researching 'packs' yet, and suspect I'm probably not going to get to be choosy at this end of the price spectrum.

The Z4M appeals in the same way that a Corvette appeals (if I could live with LHD). Not the last word in handling finesse, but fantastic wallop in a straight line and relatively easy to live with (it's basically my car with a different drivetrain). The Boxster and Cayman are the better-handling and more grown-up versions of the Z4M, in my view.

Lots to think about.
Thanks for your extra clarification.
SELOC LINK includes what's in the 'Packs' & has photos of differences;- https://wiki.seloc.org/a/Evora_Buyers_Guide

Also from SELOC site;-
First customer Evora was sold in September 2009.
The initial run of 450 cars delivered were all the Launch Edition (LE) models, which were produced to a fixed specification to ease the initial production process. After this regular production began, with both the Evora 2+0 and 2+2 available with a range of option and upgrade packs.

All Launch Editions came equipped with 2+2 seating, Tech Pack, Premium Pack, Sport Pack, Hi-power silver cast alloy wheels, Bi-Xenon Headlamps, Alpine Imprint Audio System, Reversing Camera, Electric Powerfold Mirrors and a numbered plaque.

The Sport Ratio gearbox was not an option on Launch Edition cars (standard 6 speed gearbox was longer geared, so better for economy/motorways), with the only options being the cars paint and possibly interior trim.

MY12 Updates
The launch of the MY12 cars at the Frankfurt Motor Show saw a range of improvements and specification changes to the Evora range, some of which had been made to cars as and when they were developed, and others which were added specifically to the Model Year 2012 cars.
Changes included
Recaro seats now Sparco make (?)
Close Ratio Gearbox, Bi-Xenon headlights and Body Coloured Door Handles now included as standard throughout the range
Revised selection of Paint Colours, including some unique to the Evora and the new Motorsport colours.
Revised gear linkage, gear stick design and positioning.
Pioneer head unit for the Tech Pack, replacing the previous Alpine unit.
New exhaust design to give a more evocative exhaust note.
Redesigned door seals and latches.
Revised interior with additional Premium Sport option, new colour options, leather covering on extra surfaces to improve the look and feel, redesigned steering wheel, higher quality leather, new floormats, etc.

Observations from From PH site;-
Tech pack is just a stereo system upgrade/bluetooth/cruise control and tyre pressure monitor and the Premium pack is just lots of leather, armrest & rear +2 seats match rest of car rather than material (Recaros in a lessor leather are standard).

I think that understates the options. Without the tech pack you don't get things like a ipod link or more importantly the phone adaption. People who are going to buy this car will need the phone options etc, I couldn't not have it in a new car! The premium pack I can see an argument, but everyone will want the door panels to match the seats etc in terms of leather, without that it doesn't!! Also, a base spec car will be worth nothing in 3 years, you will have to spec up if you want to get rid of it at some point.

My notes;-
If from a dealer, check if engine has been over revved.
Check if gear linkage upgrade has been carried out.
Check airbag hasn't lifted on passenger side, this has happened on a few early cars.
Reversing camera is handy, as rear view is very poor/almost non existent. As standard, cars get parking sensors.
Headlights in 2018 were expensive at £1000ea, check current price.
All press cars would have been Launch Edition, all on a 09 plate . Try to avoid these. There was a thread on PH on how you could possibly recognize them by their number plates (i.e all registered in Norwich, prefix is either = AO, AP, AR, AS, AT, AU, a few cars in the magazines of the time show AU, eg AU09 AKZ).
Check tyres for wear across full width by laying down, it's the inner side/edge that wears, & you cant see it when standing as tyres are wide, & the middle to outside edge could look fine.

Ref German cars, just take a view of future depreciation into account. Boxster & Cayman prices will still probably have further to fall. An early 90s TVR Griffith is worth a lot more now than the first Boxsters out at the same time. BMW Z3 price went right down, but the 'clown shoe' Z3M actually went up in price. Is the Z4M rare enough to hold it's value?


BertBert

19,045 posts

211 months

Thursday 18th May 2023
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Just a thought on the Tamora. It's really the complete antithesis of the Evora for handling, it's really bad. In corners it's nasty and lurchy and oversteer is very unpredictable and hard to catch.

Looks good, nice place to be inside apart from the smell, terrible handling! And lovely engine just had important bits made of cheese!

C70R

Original Poster:

17,596 posts

104 months

Thursday 18th May 2023
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BertBert said:
Just a thought on the Tamora. It's really the complete antithesis of the Evora for handling, it's really bad. In corners it's nasty and lurchy and oversteer is very unpredictable and hard to catch.

Looks good, nice place to be inside apart from the smell, terrible handling! And lovely engine just had important bits made of cheese!
As mentioned, the Tamora really isn't a 'me' sort of car. I don't like flawed heroes - I tend to prefer competent cars with a lack of edge, hence the number of German cars. But I love the way it looks and the performance, and this might be the only time a TVR makes sense to own, so I threw it into the mix.

C70R

Original Poster:

17,596 posts

104 months

Thursday 18th May 2023
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TrotCanterGallopCharge said:
Even more helpful stuff.
Thanks for taking the time to share that.

I really don't think I'm going to get the option to be picky at £30k, so I'll probably take the best example available at the time. Tech can be upgraded easily (cruise aside), and extended leather is a luxury I could live without.

In terms of value vs depreciation, you're probably right. The Evora, like anything desirable, has risen in price over the past few years. I have a suspicion that the Z4M and older Porsches have probably done their depreciating too. Either way, buying the cheaper and older car would leave me with less cash tied up anyway, so it's probably moot. These things don't have to make financial sense, do they? biggrin

I really need to find one for sale near me to take a look at in person, and just hope it's not too much of a bargain when I find it.