The Official Aston Villa FC thread
Discussion
RWD cossie wil said:
Probably having one of the best managers in the game (O'Neil) walk out of the club after seeing all of his top players being sold off with no replacements... Milner, Young, Barry to name a few...
In fairness to Lerner (and although historically I've given him the benefit of the doubt, I've not lately been inclined to be fair to him....), all of the players you name made it quite clear that they wanted to leave. The club didn't have a lot of choice in the matter, other than trying to get the best price for them once they decided they were off.Whatever else you can accuse Lerner off (and there's plenty), it's only relatively recently that he has tightened the purse strings. He made a lot of money available to fund players, generally with precious little return.
As an Evertonian I watched with envy when Lerner first came in, you looked like a good antidote to the oil/gas rich owners and mafiosi taking over the game, especially when you started promoting Acorns on your shirts. Since O'Neill left, it has been one bewildering decision followed by another and Lerner has to take the blame for appointing idiots to run the club.
My mate in the know reckons the rot started with a big fallout with O'Neill who then timed his resignation to cause maximum damage, including waiting for Hughes to take the Fulham job, thereby being unavailable to replace him. Hope you're back soon.
My mate in the know reckons the rot started with a big fallout with O'Neill who then timed his resignation to cause maximum damage, including waiting for Hughes to take the Fulham job, thereby being unavailable to replace him. Hope you're back soon.
Lurking Lawyer said:
RWD cossie wil said:
Probably having one of the best managers in the game (O'Neil) walk out of the club after seeing all of his top players being sold off with no replacements... Milner, Young, Barry to name a few...
In fairness to Lerner (and although historically I've given him the benefit of the doubt, I've not lately been inclined to be fair to him....), all of the players you name made it quite clear that they wanted to leave. The club didn't have a lot of choice in the matter, other than trying to get the best price for them once they decided they were off.Whatever else you can accuse Lerner off (and there's plenty), it's only relatively recently that he has tightened the purse strings. He made a lot of money available to fund players, generally with precious little return.
What is harder to understand is the mentality that has followed. The club appears to have been allowed to die slowly ever since. It's value must have been destroyed in the process. I don't see who's benefited. What's more worrying now, is how low the club might slide with an owner that wants out and seemingly no new owner on the horizon. It doesn't make for a good recipe.
Gad-Westy said:
I think this is a fair point. O'Neill was backed very well financially for a long time and didn't always buy wisely. There were some very poor signings as well as the odd gem. At the same time I'd imagine the wage bill was pretty extreme and that was probably hurting Lerner more than the headline spending figures. Villa hadn't had it so good on the pitch for years but I can see why the purse strings were tightened. My take on it is that O'Neill probably could have taken Villa into the top four but the books were never going to balance and unless you have a die hard hobby owner with money to burn, that isn't going to work. Shame for us fans but I can see why it happened the way it did.
What is harder to understand is the mentality that has followed. The club appears to have been allowed to die slowly ever since. It's value must have been destroyed in the process. I don't see who's benefited. What's more worrying now, is how low the club might slide with an owner that wants out and seemingly no new owner on the horizon. It doesn't make for a good recipe.
Every manager has always had to buy a lot of rubbish to find that diamond, even ones shopping at the top end of the market for proven players. O'Neill had a much better than average ratio for this compared to his predecessors and his successors. However he did have to offer long and expensive contracts to get people to come to B6, we aren't the most attractive place to play football. This is obviously a big benefit when you find the likes of a Milner or a Young as you'll get far more for a player with a long contract, but the likes of Dunne that became a millstone on the club's finances as he aged and became a liability with the rest of the squad off the pitch. Lerner lost a lot of money in the 2008 crash as he had a huge amount of cash tied up in BoA due to their merger with MBNA. It was post that crash that Lerner looked to tighten his belt, O'Neill refused to cut back, and the big falling out happened that ended up being settled out of court. What is harder to understand is the mentality that has followed. The club appears to have been allowed to die slowly ever since. It's value must have been destroyed in the process. I don't see who's benefited. What's more worrying now, is how low the club might slide with an owner that wants out and seemingly no new owner on the horizon. It doesn't make for a good recipe.
For whatever reason we've never been able to get the commercial income or the ticket income to increase to match the supposed size of the club. If that had grown at the rate it should have due to our improved form then I think Lerner would have left O'Neill alone for another season or two.
Lurking Lawyer said:
So, what's the feeling about Tony Xia.....?
I'll give him the benefit of the doubt for the time being. He's saying all the right fan-pleasing (but unrealistic) things but it remains to be seen how much money he'll make available.
Please lord, not Pearson as manager though.
How about the wally with the brolley?I'll give him the benefit of the doubt for the time being. He's saying all the right fan-pleasing (but unrealistic) things but it remains to be seen how much money he'll make available.
Please lord, not Pearson as manager though.
Interesting times ahead, I hope for the right reasons. But would prefer not to have heard the pie in the sky aspirational stuff about becoming one of the top 3 clubs in the world. I hope that was a press misquote rather than straight from the horse's mouth. That sort of statement always sets alarm bells off about whether the new owner may be a little naive.
Anyway, the reasons to be positive:
1. New owner always likely to bring new energy. Looking to improve the situation not looking for an exit plan.
2. Apparently he's followed the club for some time so hopefully there is an emotional attachment.
3. Promise of immediate funding (but please let's spend it realistically this championship year rather than paying over the top to temp players into a championship club)
4. Untapped potential financially with a Chinese owner. An opportunity to establish some links to huge football 'market'.
Overall I'm feeling very positive. It's a long time since I've felt that way about AV. Maybe my expectations have lowered but we absolutely needed a change of ownership as the club is/was heading only one way. Not sure about RDM as manager (if it happens) but actually of all the other names mention I could get on board! I hope any appointment happens quickly though. I really feel that a lot of work is needed with the playing staff and fast! There is some deadwood in there that I'd like to see moving on. We also badly need to toughen up for this division and I think that probably means some new faces coming in too. I hope the focus is purely on getting back into the PL not trying to sign superstars.
Anyway, the reasons to be positive:
1. New owner always likely to bring new energy. Looking to improve the situation not looking for an exit plan.
2. Apparently he's followed the club for some time so hopefully there is an emotional attachment.
3. Promise of immediate funding (but please let's spend it realistically this championship year rather than paying over the top to temp players into a championship club)
4. Untapped potential financially with a Chinese owner. An opportunity to establish some links to huge football 'market'.
Overall I'm feeling very positive. It's a long time since I've felt that way about AV. Maybe my expectations have lowered but we absolutely needed a change of ownership as the club is/was heading only one way. Not sure about RDM as manager (if it happens) but actually of all the other names mention I could get on board! I hope any appointment happens quickly though. I really feel that a lot of work is needed with the playing staff and fast! There is some deadwood in there that I'd like to see moving on. We also badly need to toughen up for this division and I think that probably means some new faces coming in too. I hope the focus is purely on getting back into the PL not trying to sign superstars.
I am calling bulls
t on "Doctor" Tony Xia. Where is his doctorate from? He is claiming to have 'studied at Harvard' and the media have made out that he was a Professor there. He has since said that they got the wrong end of the stick and he was 'an assistant to a Professor' there.
That is rather like Gareth in The Office ... "Assitant Regional Manager" ... (Brent) "Assistant TO THE Regional Manager".
The website of The Recon Group looks like it was knocked up in a back bedroom.
My feeling is that he is a total stooge for Rent Seekers who will always be unseen.
More worryingly, he has Christopher Samuelson as 'an advisor'. Google 'Christopher Samuelson Anton Zingarevich' for all you need to know about the failed takeover at Reading. I live there and know a few people close ot the club, all sorts of nefarious goings on.
Here is a good account of much of it: http://twohundredpercent.net/the-elephant-in-the-m...
Samuelson has also been involved in failed takeovers at Bristol City and Everton and has a dubious shady background of money laundering allegations against him, all unproven of course. People who are good at that kind of thing always make sure they don't get caught in any impropriety.
You have to ask yourself if this is the kind of person the founding fathers of Villa in 1874 would want associated with the club today: http://www.gudavadze.com/court.news.christopher-sa...
Finally, does this bloke strike you as a global business genius? http://www.birminghammail.co.uk/sport/football/wat...
Admittedly he's speaking in a second language, but one would expect someone with a Doctorate from Harvard to have mastered English and then not sit there plucking transfer budgets out of thin air. It is so inept it is beyond comedy. Agents across the land will be looking at this and having a field day!
Much as I was in the 'Lerner Out' camp, no good will come of this whatsoever. As soon as Betfair open their book on relegation from The Championship I am putting a large wedge on us doing a double drop.
t on "Doctor" Tony Xia. Where is his doctorate from? He is claiming to have 'studied at Harvard' and the media have made out that he was a Professor there. He has since said that they got the wrong end of the stick and he was 'an assistant to a Professor' there. That is rather like Gareth in The Office ... "Assitant Regional Manager" ... (Brent) "Assistant TO THE Regional Manager".
The website of The Recon Group looks like it was knocked up in a back bedroom.
My feeling is that he is a total stooge for Rent Seekers who will always be unseen.
More worryingly, he has Christopher Samuelson as 'an advisor'. Google 'Christopher Samuelson Anton Zingarevich' for all you need to know about the failed takeover at Reading. I live there and know a few people close ot the club, all sorts of nefarious goings on.
Here is a good account of much of it: http://twohundredpercent.net/the-elephant-in-the-m...
Samuelson has also been involved in failed takeovers at Bristol City and Everton and has a dubious shady background of money laundering allegations against him, all unproven of course. People who are good at that kind of thing always make sure they don't get caught in any impropriety.
You have to ask yourself if this is the kind of person the founding fathers of Villa in 1874 would want associated with the club today: http://www.gudavadze.com/court.news.christopher-sa...
Finally, does this bloke strike you as a global business genius? http://www.birminghammail.co.uk/sport/football/wat...
Admittedly he's speaking in a second language, but one would expect someone with a Doctorate from Harvard to have mastered English and then not sit there plucking transfer budgets out of thin air. It is so inept it is beyond comedy. Agents across the land will be looking at this and having a field day!
Much as I was in the 'Lerner Out' camp, no good will come of this whatsoever. As soon as Betfair open their book on relegation from The Championship I am putting a large wedge on us doing a double drop.
Edited by PurpleTurtle on Friday 20th May 11:36
PurpleTurtle said:
I am calling bullst on "Doctor" Tony Xia. Where is his doctorate from? He is claiming to have 'studied at Harvard' and the media have made out that he was a Professor there. He has since said that they got the wrong end of the stick and he was 'an assistant to a Professor' there.
That is rather like Gareth in The Office ... "Assitant Regional Manager" ... (Brent) "Assistant TO THE Regional Manager".
The website of The Recon Group looks like it was knocked up in a back bedroom.
My feeling is that he is a total stooge for Rent Seekers who will always be unseen.
More worryingly, he has Christopher Samuelson as 'an advisor'. Google 'Christopher Samuelson Anton Zingarevich' for all you need to know about the failed takeover at Reading. I live there and know a few people close ot the club, all sorts of nefarious goings on.
Here is a good account of much of it: http://twohundredpercent.net/the-elephant-in-the-m...
Samuelson has also been involved in failed takeovers at Bristol City and Everton and has a dubious shady background of money laundering allegations against him, all unproven of course. People who are good at that kind of thing always make sure they don't get caught in any impropriety.
You have to ask yourself if this is the kind of person the founding fathers of Villa in 1874 would want associated with the club today: http://www.gudavadze.com/court.news.christopher-sa...
Finally, does this bloke strike you as a global business genius? http://www.birminghammail.co.uk/sport/football/wat...
Admittedly he's speaking in a second language, but one would expect someone with a Doctorate from Harvard to have mastered English and then not sit there plucking transfer budgets out of thin air. It is so inept it is beyond comedy. Agents across the land will be looking at this and having a field day!
Much as I was in the 'Lerner Out' camp, no good will come of this whatsoever. As soon as Betfair open their book on relegation from The Championship I am putting a large wedge on us doing a double drop.
Interesting stuff. Where does the 'fit and proper person' test come into play? Presumably that process starts now? t on "Doctor" Tony Xia. Where is his doctorate from? He is claiming to have 'studied at Harvard' and the media have made out that he was a Professor there. He has since said that they got the wrong end of the stick and he was 'an assistant to a Professor' there. That is rather like Gareth in The Office ... "Assitant Regional Manager" ... (Brent) "Assistant TO THE Regional Manager".
The website of The Recon Group looks like it was knocked up in a back bedroom.
My feeling is that he is a total stooge for Rent Seekers who will always be unseen.
More worryingly, he has Christopher Samuelson as 'an advisor'. Google 'Christopher Samuelson Anton Zingarevich' for all you need to know about the failed takeover at Reading. I live there and know a few people close ot the club, all sorts of nefarious goings on.
Here is a good account of much of it: http://twohundredpercent.net/the-elephant-in-the-m...
Samuelson has also been involved in failed takeovers at Bristol City and Everton and has a dubious shady background of money laundering allegations against him, all unproven of course. People who are good at that kind of thing always make sure they don't get caught in any impropriety.
You have to ask yourself if this is the kind of person the founding fathers of Villa in 1874 would want associated with the club today: http://www.gudavadze.com/court.news.christopher-sa...
Finally, does this bloke strike you as a global business genius? http://www.birminghammail.co.uk/sport/football/wat...
Admittedly he's speaking in a second language, but one would expect someone with a Doctorate from Harvard to have mastered English and then not sit there plucking transfer budgets out of thin air. It is so inept it is beyond comedy. Agents across the land will be looking at this and having a field day!
Much as I was in the 'Lerner Out' camp, no good will come of this whatsoever. As soon as Betfair open their book on relegation from The Championship I am putting a large wedge on us doing a double drop.
Edited by PurpleTurtle on Friday 20th May 11:36
Gad-Westy said:
Interesting stuff. Where does the 'fit and proper person' test come into play? Presumably that process starts now?
I dare say that's where "Dr Xia" comes in - no mud him, so can be demonstrated to be fit and proper. People are falling overthemselves on the official Villa Facebook page about how great it will be to 'expand the brand in China'. Utter b
ks. I've even seen some muppets change their cover photo to Recon Group logo, probably the same sad acts who were falling over themsleves to get a Villa branded MBNA credit card the moment the Lerner circus rolled into town.Sadly this is the way of modern football, what with The Premier League being (supposedly) 'The Greatest League In The World' (tm). I have come to loathe everything that attracts the modern global charlatan to it The halcyon days of clubs being owned as a vanity project by local businessmen made good were infinitely better.
Much is being made of him being a Champions League winning manager, albeit with an every-available-rouble-thrown-at-it side.
Will be interesting to see how he gets on with this bunch of players in the Championship, I hope his turd-polishing skills are up to scratch.
Still no confirmatiion of the fake Doctor having passed the fit and proper test yet? I remain thoroughly unconvinced.
Will be interesting to see how he gets on with this bunch of players in the Championship, I hope his turd-polishing skills are up to scratch.
Still no confirmatiion of the fake Doctor having passed the fit and proper test yet? I remain thoroughly unconvinced.
seders said:
Di Matteo and Clarke.
I can't be the only one who thinks this is a combination that can work now Clarke has realised that he is a better coach than he is manager!
Everyone in my office thinks I'm off my rocker!
I agree.I can't be the only one who thinks this is a combination that can work now Clarke has realised that he is a better coach than he is manager!
Everyone in my office thinks I'm off my rocker!
I wasn't at all convinced at the prospect of RDM. I'm encouraged by having Clarke as the number 2 though. If anyone can light a fire under the under-achieving and over-earning squad, he can.
I wonder who has ratified the appointment of RDM and Clarke?
I am with Purple Turtle on 'Dr Xia' he strikes me as another fraud, bit like the people who bought into BCFC. As an Evertonian, I can tell you that seeing Samuelson's name linked raised an eyebrow, he tried and failed to buy into Everton at a time when Kenwright was desperate to keep control (following a fallout with co-owner Paul Gregg), it was only when it became abundantly clear that he is a crook that Kenwright backed down. I dread to think where the club would be today if that deal had gone through.
Good luck Villa, I think you are going to need it, desperate times for a club of your stature.
I am with Purple Turtle on 'Dr Xia' he strikes me as another fraud, bit like the people who bought into BCFC. As an Evertonian, I can tell you that seeing Samuelson's name linked raised an eyebrow, he tried and failed to buy into Everton at a time when Kenwright was desperate to keep control (following a fallout with co-owner Paul Gregg), it was only when it became abundantly clear that he is a crook that Kenwright backed down. I dread to think where the club would be today if that deal had gone through.
Good luck Villa, I think you are going to need it, desperate times for a club of your stature.
I was hoping this would fall apart but it seems the deal has gone through.
http://www.bbc.com/sport/football/36522094
"His takeover comprises a £52m purchase price and a £24m overdraft. In addition, he will contribute £60m in operating costs"
My main reservation is the shady people behind the scenes in this. Chris Samuelson is vice-chairman - he was behind Anton 'no money' Zingarevich at Reading. I just do not like the smell of the fake doctor. Note that Harvard have refused to comment on his educational background - a PhD in Bullst is my guess.
http://www.bbc.com/sport/football/36522094
"His takeover comprises a £52m purchase price and a £24m overdraft. In addition, he will contribute £60m in operating costs"
My main reservation is the shady people behind the scenes in this. Chris Samuelson is vice-chairman - he was behind Anton 'no money' Zingarevich at Reading. I just do not like the smell of the fake doctor. Note that Harvard have refused to comment on his educational background - a PhD in Bulls
t is my guess. Gassing Station | Football | Top of Page | What's New | My Stuff