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obob
2,986 posts
63 months
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im said: flasher said: Tonight is more proof that Spurs should have gone for Moyes rather than AVB. Cheib said: Delighted Spuds went for AVB   Bit early in the season to making that claim innit? Want a crisp £20 on who'll finish the higher, Spurs or Everton? I'll take that bet!
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im
27,791 posts
86 months
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obob said: im said: flasher said: Tonight is more proof that Spurs should have gone for Moyes rather than AVB. Cheib said: Delighted Spuds went for AVB Bit early in the season to making that claim innit? Want a crisp £20 on who'll finish the higher, Spurs or Everton? I'll take that bet! Seriously? Cool. I'll give you one last chance to retract before I bookmark this page to return to it next May. ????? Flasher: C'mon, you know you want to as well.
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mikemc88
217 posts
23 months
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Now, I'm not saying Moyes hasn't/isn't doing a fantastic job at Everton. He is. I think he is a great manager and love the loyalty he has shown to Everton. But it was mentioned a couple times on last nights game and on this forum about the shoe string budget. It is spoken about like he is the only one who could do the job he can on the budget he has. (again not saying he hasn't done a good job, just comparing - you'll see). If you take Wenger, he has pretty much had the same budget, or less. It is just the players he has signed he has managed to make huge profits on. Fabregas, Anelka, Henry, Nasri, Adebayor, Toure to name a few. With these profits he has re-invested. Hence how our average annual spend over the past 5 years is a minus figure. I know when I get my Arsenal glasses on I struggle to see other people's views, but I think commentators should be applauding Wenger for his shoestring budget more so than Moyes. I like Moyes and would welcome him when le prof decides to retire.
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Steameh
3,045 posts
79 months
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mikemc88 said: Now, I'm not saying Moyes hasn't/isn't doing a fantastic job at Everton. He is. I think he is a great manager and love the loyalty he has shown to Everton. But it was mentioned a couple times on last nights game and on this forum about the shoe string budget. It is spoken about like he is the only one who could do the job he can on the budget he has. (again not saying he hasn't done a good job, just comparing - you'll see). If you take Wenger, he has pretty much had the same budget, or less. It is just the players he has signed he has managed to make huge profits on. Fabregas, Anelka, Henry, Nasri, Adebayor, Toure to name a few. With these profits he has re-invested. Hence how our average annual spend over the past 5 years is a minus figure. I know when I get my Arsenal glasses on I struggle to see other people's views, but I think commentators should be applauding Wenger for his shoestring budget more so than Moyes. I like Moyes and would welcome him when le prof decides to retire. Arsene has done a great job for you guys, however, Moyes can't attract anywhere near the talent Arsenal can, they aren't competing for trophies and I'm assuming they don't have the wage structure you have. Football is all about money and reputation, you have the reputation, Everton have neither. On balance Moyes has tougher restrictions, but both have done a fantastic job.
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uk66fastback
9,512 posts
140 months
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mikemc88 said: Now, I'm not saying Moyes hasn't/isn't doing a fantastic job at Everton. He is. I think he is a great manager and love the loyalty he has shown to Everton. But it was mentioned a couple times on last nights game and on this forum about the shoe string budget. It is spoken about like he is the only one who could do the job he can on the budget he has. (again not saying he hasn't done a good job, just comparing - you'll see). If you take Wenger, he has pretty much had the same budget, or less. It is just the players he has signed he has managed to make huge profits on. Fabregas, Anelka, Henry, Nasri, Adebayor, Toure to name a few. With these profits he has re-invested. Hence how our average annual spend over the past 5 years is a minus figure. I know when I get my Arsenal glasses on I struggle to see other people's views, but I think commentators should be applauding Wenger for his shoestring budget more so than Moyes. I like Moyes and would welcome him when le prof decides to retire. How can you say Wenger has had the same budget when Arsenal have been in the Champsions League since more or less the dawn of time - pre new ground etc - think of the money that generates. Any figures to prove your point? Moyes is a good manager but he has done what countless other managers do every year - ie keep his team in the top league and win bugger all ... (if you look at it with no emotion)
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obob
2,986 posts
63 months
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im said: obob said: im said: flasher said: Tonight is more proof that Spurs should have gone for Moyes rather than AVB. Cheib said: Delighted Spuds went for AVB Bit early in the season to making that claim innit? Want a crisp £20 on who'll finish the higher, Spurs or Everton? I'll take that bet! Seriously? Cool. I'll give you one last chance to retract before I bookmark this page to return to it next May. ????? Flasher: C'mon, you know you want to as well. Why not, I should be getting better odds though.
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obob
2,986 posts
63 months
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uk66fastback said: mikemc88 said: Now, I'm not saying Moyes hasn't/isn't doing a fantastic job at Everton. He is. I think he is a great manager and love the loyalty he has shown to Everton. But it was mentioned a couple times on last nights game and on this forum about the shoe string budget. It is spoken about like he is the only one who could do the job he can on the budget he has. (again not saying he hasn't done a good job, just comparing - you'll see). If you take Wenger, he has pretty much had the same budget, or less. It is just the players he has signed he has managed to make huge profits on. Fabregas, Anelka, Henry, Nasri, Adebayor, Toure to name a few. With these profits he has re-invested. Hence how our average annual spend over the past 5 years is a minus figure. I know when I get my Arsenal glasses on I struggle to see other people's views, but I think commentators should be applauding Wenger for his shoestring budget more so than Moyes. I like Moyes and would welcome him when le prof decides to retire. How can you say Wenger has had the same budget when Arsenal have been in the Champsions League since more or less the dawn of time - pre new ground etc - think of the money that generates. Any figures to prove your point? Moyes is a good manager but he has done what countless other managers do every year - ie keep his team in the top league and win bugger all ... (if you look at it with no emotion) Arsenal have a massive wage budget compared to Everton and I can't think of anothe manager who gets his team to finish in the top 8 every year on such a limited budget.
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mikemc88
217 posts
23 months
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obob said: uk66fastback said: mikemc88 said: Now, I'm not saying Moyes hasn't/isn't doing a fantastic job at Everton. He is. I think he is a great manager and love the loyalty he has shown to Everton. But it was mentioned a couple times on last nights game and on this forum about the shoe string budget. It is spoken about like he is the only one who could do the job he can on the budget he has. (again not saying he hasn't done a good job, just comparing - you'll see). If you take Wenger, he has pretty much had the same budget, or less. It is just the players he has signed he has managed to make huge profits on. Fabregas, Anelka, Henry, Nasri, Adebayor, Toure to name a few. With these profits he has re-invested. Hence how our average annual spend over the past 5 years is a minus figure. I know when I get my Arsenal glasses on I struggle to see other people's views, but I think commentators should be applauding Wenger for his shoestring budget more so than Moyes. I like Moyes and would welcome him when le prof decides to retire. How can you say Wenger has had the same budget when Arsenal have been in the Champsions League since more or less the dawn of time - pre new ground etc - think of the money that generates. Any figures to prove your point? Moyes is a good manager but he has done what countless other managers do every year - ie keep his team in the top league and win bugger all ... (if you look at it with no emotion) Arsenal have a massive wage budget compared to Everton and I can't think of anothe manager who gets his team to finish in the top 8 every year on such a limited budget. Just to get things straight I'm not saying Moyes hasn't done a good job, nor that he has done it on a shoe string budget. Link: http://transferleague.co.uk/league-tables/transfer...Arsenal are spending 8million less than they spend on average every summer. The point being made was more how we have made profits on signings that get re-invested rather than having a budget to spend every season. Anelka, brought for 500k, sold for 23Million. Toure, brought for 150k, sold for £16million Adebayor, brought for 8m?, sold for £25. It's through deals like this that have allowed us to spend the money we do.
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Smart Mart
4,066 posts
84 months
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IIRC, Arsene Wenger has often said that he has the budget but chooses not to spend it until he finds the right player whereas Moyes hasn't got the budget unless he sells someone. And even then, Everton don't always give him the money earned from the sale.
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im
27,791 posts
86 months
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obob said: im said: obob said: im said: flasher said: Tonight is more proof that Spurs should have gone for Moyes rather than AVB. Cheib said: Delighted Spuds went for AVB Bit early in the season to making that claim innit? Want a crisp £20 on who'll finish the higher, Spurs or Everton? I'll take that bet! Seriously? Cool. I'll give you one last chance to retract before I bookmark this page to return to it next May. ????? Flasher: C'mon, you know you want to as well. Why not, I should be getting better odds though. No you shouldn't. Its a straight bet instigated by your championing of Moyes over AVB. So, £20 it is then. We'll return to this page at the end of the season fella. 
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Cheib
6,168 posts
44 months
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mikemc88 said: Just to get things straight I'm not saying Moyes hasn't done a good job, nor that he has done it on a shoe string budget. Link: http://transferleague.co.uk/league-tables/transfer...Arsenal are spending 8million less than they spend on average every summer. The point being made was more how we have made profits on signings that get re-invested rather than having a budget to spend every season. Anelka, brought for 500k, sold for 23Million. Toure, brought for 150k, sold for £16million Adebayor, brought for 8m?, sold for £25. It's through deals like this that have allowed us to spend the money we do. You are missing obob's point about wages. Arsenal have a huge wage bill which is really not that far behind Man U, Chelsea et al. http://www.guardian.co.uk/football/2012/may/23/pre...If you look at Arsenal's total spend on transfers and wages we would be Top 6 spenders very comfortably I would think. Arsenal spend £30 mil more on wages a year than Spurs and £70mil more than Everton.
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mikemc88
217 posts
23 months
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Cheib said: You are missing obob's point about wages. Arsenal have a huge wage bill which is really not that far behind Man U, Chelsea et al. http://www.guardian.co.uk/football/2012/may/23/pre...If you look at Arsenal's total spend on transfers and wages we would be Top 6 spenders very comfortably I would think. Arsenal spend £30 mil more on wages a year than Spurs and £70mil more than Everton. We all know our wages are stupidly high due to the wage structure implemented by the club. There's players on wages they wouldn't get anywhere else so should never be that high. If you focus purely on transfer business then we usually always make a profit. If you want to bring in wage budgets then that can be down to champions league football, which has come about because of the team put together on a 'shoe string budget'. I'm not saying we have equal budgets, but since the move to the emirates we have not shown that we have had huge transfer budgets, and have had to get by on the profits made on players.
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Cheib
6,168 posts
44 months
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mikemc88 said: Cheib said: You are missing obob's point about wages. Arsenal have a huge wage bill which is really not that far behind Man U, Chelsea et al. http://www.guardian.co.uk/football/2012/may/23/pre...If you look at Arsenal's total spend on transfers and wages we would be Top 6 spenders very comfortably I would think. Arsenal spend £30 mil more on wages a year than Spurs and £70mil more than Everton. We all know our wages are stupidly high due to the wage structure implemented by the club. There's players on wages they wouldn't get anywhere else so should never be that high. If you focus purely on transfer business then we usually always make a profit. If you want to bring in wage budgets then that can be down to champions league football, which has come about because of the team put together on a 'shoe string budget'. I'm not saying we have equal budgets, but since the move to the emirates we have not shown that we have had huge transfer budgets, and have had to get by on the profits made on players. You can't really just focus on the transfer business fees especially with the club's policy of going for young talent and paying them big money. Arsenal paid £500k for Carlos Vela in 2005 and sold him seven years later for £4mil so in theory a £3.5 mil "profit". The reality is though that during that period Vela has been on wages of between £20k and £50k a a week. Let's say he averaged £30k a week during that time...that's £10mil in wages on someone that's never been more than a fringe player. Sure he's been loaned out so the club wont have paid all that money out but given where he's been loaned to and the wages he's been on they will have picked up a decent chunk of it.
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mikemc88
217 posts
23 months
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Cheib said: You can't really just focus on the transfer business fees especially with the club's policy of going for young talent and paying them big money. Arsenal paid £500k for Carlos Vela in 2005 and sold him seven years later for £4mil so in theory a £3.5 mil "profit". The reality is though that during that period Vela has been on wages of between £20k and £50k a a week. Let's say he averaged £30k a week during that time...that's £10mil in wages on someone that's never been more than a fringe player. Sure he's been loaned out so the club wont have paid all that money out but given where he's been loaned to and the wages he's been on they will have picked up a decent chunk of it. I said about the wages. It could be argued they higher wages are down to having extra income from champions league. But we have managed to get top 4 every season even without spending £20-£30million on players every year. We can afford to buy players for £10million because we sell players for £20-30Million. I was just thinking out loud. I agree Moyes has done a fantastic job, but I think what Wenger has done had been more difficult. Just my opinion. I understand they are different situations but definitely similarities between the two.
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Cheib
6,168 posts
44 months
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mikemc88 said: I agree Moyes has done a fantastic job, but I think what Wenger has done had been more difficult. Just my opinion. I understand they are different situations but definitely similarities between the two. I agree with you on that...I think Wenger does have a harder job...the expectations are far higher and the competition much more intense. Moyes is really competing against the that finish in say 5th to 10th....he has a big adavantage which is continuity but that's because he does such a bloody good job in delivering year in year out.
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im
27,791 posts
86 months
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Cheib said: Arsenal spend £30 mil more on wages a year than Spurs And in return you finished a whole 1 point ahead of us. 
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ascayman
3,179 posts
85 months
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transfer fees mean nothing, its the wage bill that counts.
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Cheib
6,168 posts
44 months
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im said: Cheib said: Arsenal spend £30 mil more on wages a year than Spurs And in return you finished a whole 1 point ahead of us. After having been 13 points behind 
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flasher
9,134 posts
153 months
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im said: Cheib said: Arsenal spend £30 mil more on wages a year than Spurs And in return you finished a whole 1 point ahead of us. And that 1 point is worth around £40m -£50m if you get beyond the group stages.
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im
27,791 posts
86 months
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flasher said: im said: Cheib said: Arsenal spend £30 mil more on wages a year than Spurs And in return you finished a whole 1 point ahead of us. And that 1 point is worth around £40m -£50m if you get beyond the group stages. Yeah, I was kinda hoping noone would spot that flaw in my argument Anyway...£20 Everton don't finish higher than Spurs Flasher?
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