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Donatello
Original Poster
1,034 posts
30 months
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Obviously, being a Norwich fan I am biased towards our number 9 in most situations. However, this summer, I genuinely think he deserves a chance to play for England. No bias involved.
What do you all think? It seems to be a bit of a tricky subject with some pundits getting abit up themselves about it (Mr. Le Tissier...)
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n_const
580 posts
70 months
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Well he is the 2nd highest scoring Englishman in the Premier League so i think its a fair shout.
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Bitzer
2,034 posts
37 months
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Would rather have him than the carthorse that is Andy Carroll.
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obob
2,986 posts
63 months
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No, England always do this - they take form players who have had one good season etc. What is needed is players with the best technique so we can at least try to play decent football.
Rooney, Welbeck, Sturridge, Defoe would be the strikers for me, I think they usually take 5 so the last place is up for grabs.
What did Le Tissier say?
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BrabusMog
4,954 posts
55 months
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Who is even going to be in charge for the Euro's?
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Black can man
10,977 posts
37 months
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Other than Rooney who else is there ?
I get the feeling that this Euro's tourny is going to be a disaster for England
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Black can man
10,977 posts
37 months
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BrabusMog said: Who is even going to be in charge for the Euro's? John Terry probably
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Donatello
Original Poster
1,034 posts
30 months
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obob said: No, England always do this - they take form players who have had one good season etc. What is needed is players with the best technique so we can at least try to play decent football.
Rooney, Welbeck, Sturridge, Defoe would be the strikers for me, I think they usually take 5 so the last place is up for grabs. While I appreciate this, I also disagree. Holt is a good footballer, I see him every week and he is genuinely good with his feet. He often switches play 40-50 yards straight to his team and does it with ease. His link up play is good, control 99% of the time is spot on and his movement is spot on. Add that to his enthusiasm, work-rate and genuine desire to succeed, I think he would do an incredible job. I disagree that England always take form players. They normally take the same tragic 11 that let people down every tournament. Time for a change I think. obob said: What did Le Tissier say? He was saying it was ridiculous for Holt to be suggested and if he was even being considered, Ricky Lambert should be one of the first names in the squad.
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BrabusMog
4,954 posts
55 months
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Donatello said: obob said: What did Le Tissier say? He was saying it was ridiculous for Holt to be suggested and if he was even being considered, Ricky Lambert should be one of the first names in the squad. Le Tissier is a t  t. I think it would be good to take a chance on players like Holt in a tournament where England really do have nothing to lose. I doubt they will, though.
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tonker
43,840 posts
117 months
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two words Michael Ricketts. http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Michael_Rickettsbetter record. And scored against the top clubs in the Premier League. He might have it, but he's 30, nearly 31 and international football is not the Premier League. As England's results have consistently shown... I also think he's been a bit lucky (though you make your own luck to an extent) in a number of the goals he has got...
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Booey
6,522 posts
49 months
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2nd highest English goal scorer this year? Get him in the squad. My head will explode if Carroll or Crouch are anywhere near the team.
I think there are one or two english players in the championship who also deserve a chance but have not yet hat the opportunity to prove themselves on the bigger PL stage. Perhaps some players in the U-21's also deserve a place in the squad? That is why I think Pearce is a good bloke to manage the team in this transitional phase as he has got to know all the players coming through!
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andyjo1982
4,162 posts
79 months
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tonker said: two words Michael Ricketts. http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Michael_Rickettsbetter record. And scored against the top clubs in the Premier League. He might have it, but he's 30, nearly 31 and international football is not the Premier League. As England's results have consistently shown... I also think he's been a bit lucky (though you make your own luck to an extent) in a number of the goals he has got... I've made my feelings about Holt well known on the England thread. Again i'm a Norwich fan so i am biased, but I agree with the OP, he deserves a call up but he's just not fashionable enough. Tonker, you do realise Holt has scored against United, Chelsea, Newcastle (2) Liverpool and Everton this season? The guy is a natural finisher. He can score with both feet and is great in the air. He roughs up defenders (ask Ledley King how his afternoon was on Saturday). But off the field he is a genuinely good guy. To be honest, i'm not fussed if he goes or not. I think England will struggle to make an impact this summer and if this were to have a detrimental effect on Holts performances for his club i'd be gutted.
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andyjo1982
4,162 posts
79 months
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Also, I will add, we could do a lot worse than Rickie Lambert too. He too has had a phenomenal season, he's another natural goalscorer. We seem to be little light on goalscorers for the national side. Welbeck and Sturridge have pace and do get a few goals, but I don't think either have had a brilliant season. Likewise Defoe, he's not started too often for Spurs this season, also he's had numerous chances for the national team, and never really took them. Crouch, Zamora, Carroll, they've all had below par seasons too...
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tonker
43,840 posts
117 months
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andyjo1982 said: Tonker, you do realise Holt has scored against United, Chelsea, Newcastle (2) Liverpool and Everton this season? Yes, and Michael Ricketts scored against United, Arsenal, Chelsea, Newcastle, Arsenal, Liverpool and Everton. His goals put us top of the League. He mauled the back fours of all those teams, by being totally unplayable and actually scoring important goals that won matches for us. But his head was turned by a new agent (move to a 'big club'), and his entire career has been blighted by his inability to actually put the effort in (well that, Ferrari crashes, belting his missus and the size of his @rse (a real wasted talent) .... if you looked at Ricketts, he got 24 league goals to get us promoted, then 15 by January, cue England call up (same debut as his youth teammate at Villa, Vassell (who got an offside mis t and scored)). My point is that Ricketts could do it domestically, but he couldn't step up. Don't get me wrong, I'd give him a try, but not at a tournament (and his age counts against him). I also suspect he's not adapatable enough to play the more complicated way and to avoid getting booked or giving fouls away in international football. It's a different game. If we were playing a Home Nations Championship these days, probably fine, against canny wily cynical international defenders, sorry, I can't see it, and I can't see him playing the Heskey/Sheringham/Hateley provider role either. He's more of a Luca Toni or Carsten Jancker (or a Brett Ormerod  )
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Disco_Dale
1,884 posts
79 months
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I'm a Norwich fan, and while I'd be delighted for Mr Holt himself should he get the call, on a selfish note I'd be worried he'd come back crocked.
Personally I couldn't care less what England do in the Euros, decades of gutless, uninterested performances by the so-called cream of our crop have seen to that.
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andyjo1982
4,162 posts
79 months
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tonker said: andyjo1982 said: Tonker, you do realise Holt has scored against United, Chelsea, Newcastle (2) Liverpool and Everton this season? Yes, and Michael Ricketts scored against United, Arsenal, Chelsea, Newcastle, Arsenal, Liverpool and Everton. His goals put us top of the League. He mauled the back fours of all those teams, by being totally unplayable and actually scoring important goals that won matches for us. But his head was turned by a new agent (move to a 'big club'), and his entire career has been blighted by his inability to actually put the effort in (well that, Ferrari crashes, belting his missus and the size of his @rse (a real wasted talent) .... if you looked at Ricketts, he got 24 league goals to get us promoted, then 15 by January, cue England call up (same debut as his youth teammate at Villa, Vassell (who got an offside mis t and scored)). My point is that Ricketts could do it domestically, but he couldn't step up. Don't get me wrong, I'd give him a try, but not at a tournament (and his age counts against him). I also suspect he's not adapatable enough to play the more complicated way and to avoid getting booked or giving fouls away in international football. It's a different game. If we were playing a Home Nations Championship these days, probably fine, against canny wily cynical international defenders, sorry, I can't see it, and I can't see him playing the Heskey/Sheringham/Hateley provider role either. He's more of a Luca Toni or Carsten Jancker (or a Brett Ormerod ) I don't think its entirely fair though, to compare every striker who makes the step up from Championship level to Prem, and then to international level, to Michael Ricketts. I guess perhaps you could say a similar thing has happened to Andy Carroll, made his mark in the Champ, half a good season and a massive move and then it all goes tits up. Sometimes a player can just come in and deliver. I just feel we need some options up front. Rooneys banned for 2 games, but he'll be in the squad. Sturridge, Welbeck and Campbell (who shouldn't be near the squad at the moment) are all too similar. We have good wingers in Young, Lennon, Walcott, Ox, who could all be capable of putting crosses in and Holt is more than good enough to convert. I do agree about the fouls side of things. Holt does concede a lot of fouls on defenders, though he doesn't get too many suspensions. I still think England should be havingf a look at Holt... P.S, please don't ever mention Ormorod in the same conversation as Holt
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obob
2,986 posts
63 months
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andyjo1982 said: I don't think its entirely fair though, to compare every striker who makes the step up from Championship level to Prem, and then to international level, to Michael Ricketts. I guess perhaps you could say a similar thing has happened to Andy Carroll, made his mark in the Champ, half a good season and a massive move and then it all goes tits up. Sometimes a player can just come in and deliver. I just feel we need some options up front. Rooneys banned for 2 games, but he'll be in the squad. Sturridge, Welbeck and Campbell (who shouldn't be near the squad at the moment) are all too similar. We have good wingers in Young, Lennon, Walcott, Ox, who could all be capable of putting crosses in and Holt is more than good enough to convert. I do agree about the fouls side of things. Holt does concede a lot of fouls on defenders, though he doesn't get too many suspensions. I still think England should be havingf a look at Holt... P.S, please don't ever mention Ormorod in the same conversation as Holt Walcott, capable of putting in good crosses? 
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CIE560
10,469 posts
62 months
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obob said: Walcott, capable of putting in good crosses? I think he's assuming Walcott is playing noughts and crosses on the bench
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andyjo1982
4,162 posts
79 months
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CIE560 said: obob said: Walcott, capable of putting in good crosses? I think he's assuming Walcott is playing noughts and crosses on the bench C'mon guys, I could've put Downing on that list 
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obob
2,986 posts
63 months
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andyjo1982 said: Also, I will add, we could do a lot worse than Rickie Lambert too. He too has had a phenomenal season, he's another natural goalscorer. We seem to be little light on goalscorers for the national side. Welbeck and Sturridge have pace and do get a few goals, but I don't think either have had a brilliant season. Likewise Defoe, he's not started too often for Spurs this season, also he's had numerous chances for the national team, and never really took them. Crouch, Zamora, Carroll, they've all had below par seasons too... Defoe has scored 16 goals in 20 appearances this season. The problem is if you take a big target man like Holt, they can't stop themselves launching the ball forward at him.
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