The joey barton thread
Discussion
markh1973 said:
Michael Johnson has never won an Olympic women's 400m title so presumably by your logic he shouldn't have anything to say about such a race. Or do your issues only extend to women talking about men's sport?
I would rather have a woman give insight about the a womans race.WhiskyDisco said:
Gabby Logan does a terrific job of hosting the Men's Six Nations rugby. Helen Chamberlain was well loved on Soccer a.m.
Is it just football presenters who come under critism from Joey?
Hosting and punditry require a different skill set Gabby logan and Sue barker are great hosts. Is it just football presenters who come under critism from Joey?
punditry - the expression of expertise in a particular subject or field.
J77wck said:
markh1973 said:
Michael Johnson has never won an Olympic women's 400m title so presumably by your logic he shouldn't have anything to say about such a race. Or do your issues only extend to women talking about men's sport?
I would rather have a woman give insight about the a womans race.WhiskyDisco said:
J77wck said:
Hosting and punditry require a different skill set Gabby logan and Sue barker are great hosts.
punditry - the expression of expertise in a particular subject or field.
Quite right. Joey has a point.punditry - the expression of expertise in a particular subject or field.
The issue i have is media hiring people who are just s
t whether its women or men. Challo said:
So going by that point there should be no issue with ex professional womens footballers providing punditry on mens football. Given they have expertise in that particular subject football?
The issue i have is media hiring people who are just st whether its women or men.
There are some women footballers who have won a european cup, and got to a world cup final. Certainly if we are talking elite level and experience counting, that makes them more qualified to comment on the up coming world cup in germany than many of the male pundits we have who didnt even play in a world cup tournament at all...The issue i have is media hiring people who are just s
t whether its women or men. Personally, I don't enjoy most female radio commentators -- the pitch of the voice is unsuited to the medium, particularly when delivered in a commentator's guise. I want to relax when watching football and a screechy high pitched voice isn't pleasurable to hear.
Additionally, I find that many females (not all!) ape the punditry style of their male counterparts (there isn't much variation on the style). Underlying this, there is little innovation or authenticity that females bring to the listener experience, at large. I'd rather hear a voice that's true to themselves*, but this may be seen as risky as it'd further deter a male audience that has an expectation of which touchpoints the conversation needs to cover.
However, having said all of the above, my view differs from the immediate frustration that JB expresses (he's a dick); I can see the long term investment of ensuring that there is a diverse representation of individuals across major sports. Due to the media presence of these sports, it's a platform upon which to normalise participation, in addition to the perception of accessibility and belonging for future generations (a fair interpretation of inclusivity rather than a weaponised interpretation).
tldr; female commmentators and pundits (not hosts) get on my tits and put me off because it's just a rinse/repeat style already established by male professionals that have preceded them, but perhaps I just have to get over myself for the sake of my daughter and her generation.
Additionally, I find that many females (not all!) ape the punditry style of their male counterparts (there isn't much variation on the style). Underlying this, there is little innovation or authenticity that females bring to the listener experience, at large. I'd rather hear a voice that's true to themselves*, but this may be seen as risky as it'd further deter a male audience that has an expectation of which touchpoints the conversation needs to cover.
However, having said all of the above, my view differs from the immediate frustration that JB expresses (he's a dick); I can see the long term investment of ensuring that there is a diverse representation of individuals across major sports. Due to the media presence of these sports, it's a platform upon which to normalise participation, in addition to the perception of accessibility and belonging for future generations (a fair interpretation of inclusivity rather than a weaponised interpretation).
tldr; female commmentators and pundits (not hosts) get on my tits and put me off because it's just a rinse/repeat style already established by male professionals that have preceded them, but perhaps I just have to get over myself for the sake of my daughter and her generation.
*I understand that this is an entirely subjective and undefinable view, but they just don't sound like the women that I come across in real life; not only in their opinions, but also in the depth of their voice!
Challo said:
The issue i have is media hiring people who are just st whether its women or men.
^^^^THIS. I'd rather listen to Emma Hayes talking about men's football than Lee Dixon. But Graham le Saux (who hardly gets a look in unfortunately) is better than Emma Hayes. t whether its women or men. It's got everything to do with their ability to communicate their knowledge to the listener, and nothing to do with their sex.
My son works in this field and has seen first hand the difference in preparation that co commentators put in. Many will turn up having done no research at all, whereas someone like Matt Holland has done research on all the players involved and has notes on them all.
TwigtheWonderkid said:
Challo said:
The issue i have is media hiring people who are just st whether its women or men.
^^^^THIS. I'd rather listen to Emma Hayes talking about men's football than Lee Dixon. But Graham le Saux (who hardly gets a look in unfortunately) is better than Emma Hayes. t whether its women or men. It's got everything to do with their ability to communicate their knowledge to the listener, and nothing to do with their sex.
My son works in this field and has seen first hand the difference in preparation that co commentators put in. Many will turn up having done no research at all, whereas someone like Matt Holland has done research on all the players involved and has notes on them all.
I think we need more lower profile bright and articulate pundits, and less reliance on the usual faces, whichever sex they may be.
Some really good commenators are lower league / less well known players, like Dave Edwards, John Hendrie and Danny Mills
So going by that point there should be no issue with ex professional womens footballers providing punditry on mens football. Given they have expertise in that particular subject football?
The issue i have is media hiring people who are just s
t whether its women or men. [/quote]
Last time I checked no woman has ever played in men's football, if england men are playing I would like a ex england player to be a punit not a lower league player or a england woman player.
J77wck said:
So going by that point there should be no issue with ex professional womens footballers providing punditry on mens football. Given they have expertise in that particular subject football?
The issue i have is media hiring people who are just st whether its women or men.
Last time I checked no woman has ever played in men's football, if england men are playing I would like a ex england player to be a punit not a lower league player or a england woman player. The issue i have is media hiring people who are just s
t whether its women or men. Edit weirdly picking up other quote...
Edited by coldel on Friday 1st March 12:50
TwigtheWonderkid said:
Challo said:
The issue i have is media hiring people who are just st whether its women or men.
^^^^THIS. I'd rather listen to Emma Hayes talking about men's football than Lee Dixon. But Graham le Saux (who hardly gets a look in unfortunately) is better than Emma Hayes. t whether its women or men. It's got everything to do with their ability to communicate their knowledge to the listener, and nothing to do with their sex.
My son works in this field and has seen first hand the difference in preparation that co commentators put in. Many will turn up having done no research at all, whereas someone like Matt Holland has done research on all the players involved and has notes on them all.
Like I said before, I bet if you got 5 women and 5 men to write an opinion piece on mens football and anonymised them no one would not be able to tell them apart, nobody. Its why women can coach mens football, men can and have been for years coaching womens football. Its why we can have female referees, and that it wasnt that long ago a number of calls were made to get Weigman in for Southgate. To think that a professional woman who has played a world cup final cannot give insight into a mens game of football is quite frankly ridiculous. I get some people 'prefer' male pundits.
coldel said:
Like I said before, I bet if you got 5 women and 5 men to write an opinion piece on mens football and anonymised them no one would not be able to tell them apart, nobody.
A similar thing happened where Gary Neville and Jill Scott secretly swapped twitter accounts. Obvious thing happened ... With loads of abuse at Jill account (which was Gary) and vice-versa https://twitter.com/GNev2/status/17022240607787622...
redrabbit29 said:
He's been up to several tricks again recently:
Commented on a game involving a 17 year old GK and asked "how is this nonsense on TV".
Then called a disabled guy "Ironside"
He also referred to tweeted to the rangers ladies defender who was playing in the game that she was playing lesbo-ball. The irony lost on him that she has won more medals for rangers than he ever could.Commented on a game involving a 17 year old GK and asked "how is this nonsense on TV".
Then called a disabled guy "Ironside"
Outwith the Scottish no one really pays attention to the Scottish game but I can’t express enough how much of a bottle merchant and failure he was up here.
redrabbit29 said:
He's been up to several tricks again recently:
Commented on a game involving a 17 year old GK and asked "how is this nonsense on TV".
Then called a disabled guy "Ironside"
He also posted footage of the Baltimore Bridge incident with the tag line "Women driving boats now" and a laughing emoji. Absolute scumbag, which I'm glad to say has been my opinion since the start of the thread, even before he went full on crackers on Twitter. Commented on a game involving a 17 year old GK and asked "how is this nonsense on TV".
Then called a disabled guy "Ironside"
TwigtheWonderkid said:
He also posted footage of the Baltimore Bridge incident with the tag line "Women driving boats now" and a laughing emoji. Absolute scumbag, which I'm glad to say has been my opinion since the start of the thread, even before he went full on crackers on Twitter.
I am not sure who I am most feeling pity for. This brain dead Barton or the even more brain dead numptys that actually follow his accounts and talk positively about him. I just watched 3 Body Problem on Netflix where effectively aliens are coming to stamp us out because we are a failed species that are past saving, if aliens were to arrive and see Barton and his followers as examples of the human civilisation, I can imagine the same scenario playing out.At least Mr Barton hasn't found this story to tweet about: Parents' fury as girls' soccer team featuring FIVE trans players destroys opposition 10-0 on way to winning grand final - with one biological male scoring SIX goals in one game.
https://www.dailymail.co.uk/sport/football/article...
That may just send him over the edge!
https://www.dailymail.co.uk/sport/football/article...
That may just send him over the edge!
coldel said:
I am not sure who I am most feeling pity for. This brain dead Barton or the even more brain dead numptys that actually follow his accounts and talk positively about him.
This is always more insulting than his actual bile he posts. If you look at his comments, you'll see real people replying saying "legend", or "talking sense again", and all other sorts of positivity.This is the issue with Twitter (more than most other platforms), is it fuels this kind of brain dead and disgusting behaviour. Years ago you were limited only to those in your vicinity, most of whom probably were fairly rational. You may get the odd nutter who thought you were right but no one ever heard you as you're just at home drinking special brew.
Now though, you can click a button and find thousands of people who are just like you, and it becomes so normalised.
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