Financial Fair Play
Discussion
dirty boy said:
London424 said:
Yep, and that's the main problem. it's my understanding that UEFA will judge fair value e.g. the Etihad sponsorship thing has already been highlighted as way above "fair value".
I would like this to have some teeth to it, but believe it will just be more of a nuisance that clubs will work around.
It's crazy isn't it?I would like this to have some teeth to it, but believe it will just be more of a nuisance that clubs will work around.
You could look at HMRC as a prime example of releasing their interpretation of current tax law, and legislation surrounding it.
You then get people who simply interpet it in a different way and we all spend x number of hours and x number of pounds arguing about it until someone in a wig decides who's right.
These clubs have the best financial advisors in the land, and if UEFA think they'll stay one step ahead of them, they've got another thing coming. They'll be tearing their hair out in no time, wasting colossal amounts of licence payers money fighting the various cases.
Can't work, won't work. Lovely idea though.
dirty boy said:
London424 said:
Yep, and that's the main problem. it's my understanding that UEFA will judge fair value e.g. the Etihad sponsorship thing has already been highlighted as way above "fair value".
I would like this to have some teeth to it, but believe it will just be more of a nuisance that clubs will work around.
It's crazy isn't it?I would like this to have some teeth to it, but believe it will just be more of a nuisance that clubs will work around.
You could look at HMRC as a prime example of releasing their interpretation of current tax law, and legislation surrounding it.
You then get people who simply interpet it in a different way and we all spend x number of hours and x number of pounds arguing about it until someone in a wig decides who's right.
These clubs have the best financial advisors in the land, and if UEFA think they'll stay one step ahead of them, they've got another thing coming. They'll be tearing their hair out in no time, wasting colossal amounts of licence payers money fighting the various cases.
Can't work, won't work. Lovely idea though.
dirty boy said:
Are transfers included in the 'sustainable' model?
Ie
If a club can service it's running costs via the income, then surely if the owner decides to put in £X to purchase a player, then that's up to them. Is it not about the club being viable should there not be an owner to pay the overheads?
Not looked at it though, maybe I should..hang on..
Very few transfers are paid for as a lump sum up front so those ongoing payments are part of the running costs.....Ie
If a club can service it's running costs via the income, then surely if the owner decides to put in £X to purchase a player, then that's up to them. Is it not about the club being viable should there not be an owner to pay the overheads?
Not looked at it though, maybe I should..hang on..
Cheib said:
dirty boy said:
Are transfers included in the 'sustainable' model?
Ie
If a club can service it's running costs via the income, then surely if the owner decides to put in £X to purchase a player, then that's up to them. Is it not about the club being viable should there not be an owner to pay the overheads?
Not looked at it though, maybe I should..hang on..
Very few transfers are paid for as a lump sum up front so those ongoing payments are part of the running costs.....Ie
If a club can service it's running costs via the income, then surely if the owner decides to put in £X to purchase a player, then that's up to them. Is it not about the club being viable should there not be an owner to pay the overheads?
Not looked at it though, maybe I should..hang on..
London424 said:
Cheib said:
dirty boy said:
Are transfers included in the 'sustainable' model?
Ie
If a club can service it's running costs via the income, then surely if the owner decides to put in £X to purchase a player, then that's up to them. Is it not about the club being viable should there not be an owner to pay the overheads?
Not looked at it though, maybe I should..hang on..
Very few transfers are paid for as a lump sum up front so those ongoing payments are part of the running costs.....Ie
If a club can service it's running costs via the income, then surely if the owner decides to put in £X to purchase a player, then that's up to them. Is it not about the club being viable should there not be an owner to pay the overheads?
Not looked at it though, maybe I should..hang on..
If ever you want to read about a club's finances this blog is excellent http://swissramble.blogspot.co.uk/2011/05/arsenals...
In that piece he mentions Arsenal owe £13mil in transfer fees to other clubs when looking at a particular year's accounts.
Cheib said:
London424 said:
Cheib said:
dirty boy said:
Are transfers included in the 'sustainable' model?
Ie
If a club can service it's running costs via the income, then surely if the owner decides to put in £X to purchase a player, then that's up to them. Is it not about the club being viable should there not be an owner to pay the overheads?
Not looked at it though, maybe I should..hang on..
Very few transfers are paid for as a lump sum up front so those ongoing payments are part of the running costs.....Ie
If a club can service it's running costs via the income, then surely if the owner decides to put in £X to purchase a player, then that's up to them. Is it not about the club being viable should there not be an owner to pay the overheads?
Not looked at it though, maybe I should..hang on..
If ever you want to read about a club's finances this blog is excellent http://swissramble.blogspot.co.uk/2011/05/arsenals...
In that piece he mentions Arsenal owe £13mil in transfer fees to other clubs when looking at a particular year's accounts.
I've seen that site before, very good reading!
London424 said:
Cheib said:
London424 said:
Cheib said:
dirty boy said:
Are transfers included in the 'sustainable' model?
Ie
If a club can service it's running costs via the income, then surely if the owner decides to put in £X to purchase a player, then that's up to them. Is it not about the club being viable should there not be an owner to pay the overheads?
Not looked at it though, maybe I should..hang on..
Very few transfers are paid for as a lump sum up front so those ongoing payments are part of the running costs.....Ie
If a club can service it's running costs via the income, then surely if the owner decides to put in £X to purchase a player, then that's up to them. Is it not about the club being viable should there not be an owner to pay the overheads?
Not looked at it though, maybe I should..hang on..
If ever you want to read about a club's finances this blog is excellent http://swissramble.blogspot.co.uk/2011/05/arsenals...
In that piece he mentions Arsenal owe £13mil in transfer fees to other clubs when looking at a particular year's accounts.
I've seen that site before, very good reading!
Obviously selling clubs want the money up front but I think especially when big clubs are buying from smaller clubs they impose these terms as they know that no one else is going to pay that kind of money.
Cheib said:
dirty boy said:
Are transfers included in the 'sustainable' model?
Ie
If a club can service it's running costs via the income, then surely if the owner decides to put in £X to purchase a player, then that's up to them. Is it not about the club being viable should there not be an owner to pay the overheads?
Not looked at it though, maybe I should..hang on..
Very few transfers are paid for as a lump sum up front so those ongoing payments are part of the running costs.....Ie
If a club can service it's running costs via the income, then surely if the owner decides to put in £X to purchase a player, then that's up to them. Is it not about the club being viable should there not be an owner to pay the overheads?
Not looked at it though, maybe I should..hang on..
I was thinking along the lines of a director is more than entitled to invest their own money into a company to acquire 'assets' to enable the business to prosper, if the company doesn't have the facility to do so by itself.
With respect to players, the profit/loss on disposal of player contracts does form part of the trading position of the club, and therefore forms part of the break even model UEFA expect. Give or take the €5m discrepancy that they'll allow.
On player purchases, whether or not they pay up front or not is irrelevant on the financial statements, the only thing that may or may not be accrued for, but the relevant disclosure would be expected, would be for milestone clauses.
If a player costs £20m that appears on the financial statements, not £10m now, £10m later. That forms part of the balance sheet, not the trading position, and that's what UEFA are interested in at the moment.
So a nice thread resurrection for an Xmas eve, eve day.
I saw this article and it appears that the FFP enforcement could be quite tough/strict.
http://www.danielgeey.com/will-clubs-be-banned-for...
There are some recent cases of exclusion from competition for what looks like pretty small sums of money. Spring 2014 is the first big measurement time. Will be interesting to see what happens.
I saw this article and it appears that the FFP enforcement could be quite tough/strict.
http://www.danielgeey.com/will-clubs-be-banned-for...
There are some recent cases of exclusion from competition for what looks like pretty small sums of money. Spring 2014 is the first big measurement time. Will be interesting to see what happens.
Spain will be the test case for these regulations I think as well as the investigation of state subsidies to seven Spanish clubs which contrevene's EU law. The bank (Bankia) which has bankrolled RM went bust last year and had a government bailout so that pot of gold is not getting any bigger.
I think FFP will have some effect...you can already see it in how Chelsea have scaled back a bit(though that might be because the Russian crook no longer has the biggest cheque book). There are a lot of long established clubs that want it to work....the likes of Bayern and Man U will be lobbying hard to make sure it works as intended.
I think FFP will have some effect...you can already see it in how Chelsea have scaled back a bit(though that might be because the Russian crook no longer has the biggest cheque book). There are a lot of long established clubs that want it to work....the likes of Bayern and Man U will be lobbying hard to make sure it works as intended.
im said:
I'm sure United are in favour of FFP after all - we can't have another Manchester City or Chelsea arising from nowhere and spoiling the status quo.
That's why a lot of the PL clubs voted against the PL version of it initially. United are so far ahead of everyone else financially I don't think they really have to worry now. There revenues are probably £200 mil more than a mid table PL club maybe more.
Cheib, just seen this thread and you are spot on about Fat Cashley, Freddie Shepherd had been running a big o/d on players at the club for many years.
One of, if not the only, good thing he's done at Newcastle is to pay that dent off and only buy/or deal with cash for players up front.
One of, if not the only, good thing he's done at Newcastle is to pay that dent off and only buy/or deal with cash for players up front.
Apologies for the link as the mainstream haven't started writing this up as far as I can see.
http://www.nzherald.co.nz/sport/news/article.cfm?c...
But 76 clubs playing in Europe this season are under investigation.
http://www.nzherald.co.nz/sport/news/article.cfm?c...
But 76 clubs playing in Europe this season are under investigation.
Good bump. Here's a Guardian link for the same.
http://www.theguardian.com/football/2014/feb/28/ue...
I wonder if UEFA have the stones?
http://www.theguardian.com/football/2014/feb/28/ue...
I wonder if UEFA have the stones?
Here we go boys and girls
http://www.telegraph.co.uk/sport/football/news/107...
Already posted by Hornetrider on the city thread.
http://www.telegraph.co.uk/sport/football/news/107...
Already posted by Hornetrider on the city thread.
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