FA Buggering up junior football
Discussion
XM5ER said:
sjc said:
These Barca kids are still at junior school ...
https://m.youtube.com/watch?v=bE4WsalWDQc
And two more damning insights into the Cat 1 Academy system ....one of which is very close to my (sons) heart .
http://jordanjohnperrin.org/2015/11/22/too-many-co...
Honestly, I've seen talent like that in the UK amongst some of our local teams but given the experience we've had of the Academy system they don't stand a chance of being picked up and above all, nurtured. https://m.youtube.com/watch?v=bE4WsalWDQc
And two more damning insights into the Cat 1 Academy system ....one of which is very close to my (sons) heart .
http://jordanjohnperrin.org/2015/11/22/too-many-co...
David Weir has some interesting things to say here.
http://www.unitedsportsusa.com/blog/glasgow-ranger...
I know he kept his kids out of the academy system until they were well in their teens.
From what I have seen, there seems to be a real lack of intelligence around the whole of professional football when it comes to developing kids (and younger adult players quite frankly).
What experience have you had of the professional Academy system here have you had, to make you feel that your kid wouldn't be picked up?I here this a lot ( in fact it' been mentioned some posts back).The scouting network now is so vast, kids simply don't get missed, and they don't get a trial 'cos some bloke knows some bloke in the pub etc. I posted that video, not because of the little 11 year olds skill, but his balance, immediate burst of pace, awareness of the other lads position and then the composure shown by that lad when he received the ball. I saw plenty of kids with eye catching tricks in Sunday football in that age group,it's not what a scout looks for unless he's got a whole lot more.
For me the worst thing about the professional Academy system ( especially at Cat 1 level) is the amount of coaches who have an alarming lack of people skills, which can end up destroying a lads confidence over time. Only yesterday I had a dad/friend on the phone who's having trouble trying to get his son out of his contract without compensation, having gone from being voted Premier league goalkeeper of the tournament last summer at St Georges park by the PL coaches, to playing the whole of the year down an age group and becoming the victim of blatant favouritism(done right in front of him sometimes)without any explanation. It's destroyed him as a lad, and he's become a shell of the boy he was, waking up in tears during the night. Yes it's a brutal business mentally, but there's still ways and means of going about things. To give you an idea of this lads talent and the scouting network, he's at a top London club,yet already a Merseyside club have been on the phone offering accommodation and God knows what else.
The worst thing for me about the professional academy system
To be honest, I'm really glad that Kinky junior did not express a serious interest in Club academy-level. I've heard all the same horror stories (never any positive ones actually), like the one above. There's been so so may of them.
Today, he just loves playing and does not care if we win or lose; with no intensity or pressure to win 'at all costs'.
But also on the point above about the parents - that just frustrates me so much. I'm the only parent in the team who stands and watches them training. Everyone just dumps them off and run. Wind, rain, hail or snow, I'm there. It's a little better on match day - but still frustrates me so much.
As a parent you invest so much time and money on club fees, kit, taking them to training and matches every week - up to an hours drive away. They should be taking an interest. I just don't get it.
Today, he just loves playing and does not care if we win or lose; with no intensity or pressure to win 'at all costs'.
But also on the point above about the parents - that just frustrates me so much. I'm the only parent in the team who stands and watches them training. Everyone just dumps them off and run. Wind, rain, hail or snow, I'm there. It's a little better on match day - but still frustrates me so much.
As a parent you invest so much time and money on club fees, kit, taking them to training and matches every week - up to an hours drive away. They should be taking an interest. I just don't get it.
Kinky said:
To be honest, I'm really glad that Kinky junior did not express a serious interest in Club academy-level. I've heard all the same horror stories (never any positive ones actually), like the one above. There's been so so may of them.
Today, he just loves playing and does not care if we win or lose; with no intensity or pressure to win 'at all costs'.
But also on the point above about the parents - that just frustrates me so much. I'm the only parent in the team who stands and watches them training. Everyone just dumps them off and run. Wind, rain, hail or snow, I'm there. It's a little better on match day - but still frustrates me so much.
As a parent you invest so much time and money on club fees, kit, taking them to training and matches every week - up to an hours drive away. They should be taking an interest. I just don't get it.
I've just got back from our training session. 15 out of 17 kids turned up (2 were ill) and not one parent turned up to watch. Only kids whose parents were there was the coach and I. It's got worse as they got older... sometimes the mums and dads would watch, then they'd come and watch the fist few minutes and the last few minutes then gradually, it became just picking them up. Nowadays, the kids walk back up to the car park and off they go. I've not seen some parents for months!!Today, he just loves playing and does not care if we win or lose; with no intensity or pressure to win 'at all costs'.
But also on the point above about the parents - that just frustrates me so much. I'm the only parent in the team who stands and watches them training. Everyone just dumps them off and run. Wind, rain, hail or snow, I'm there. It's a little better on match day - but still frustrates me so much.
As a parent you invest so much time and money on club fees, kit, taking them to training and matches every week - up to an hours drive away. They should be taking an interest. I just don't get it.
Matchdays are now Sunday afternoons and that doesn't suit a lot of the parents so maybe a good match will have five or six kids with parents there. The rest? Who knows, but as Kinky says, frustrating and sad in equal measures.
I prefer it when the parents don't turn up these days, makes my life so much easier and the kids get to play the game without any added pressure. If however parents turned up and supported, encouraged and motivated their kids i'd have a different opinion, but when does that ever happen?
sjc said:
My niece is on a 4 year basketball scholarship in the USA at the moment, the facilities are first class, and they are treated fantastically, albeit it's physically and mentally demanding, especially in the first couple of years.
What experience have you had of the professional Academy system here have you had, to make you feel that your kid wouldn't be picked up?I here this a lot ( in fact it' been mentioned some posts back).The scouting network now is so vast, kids simply don't get missed, and they don't get a trial 'cos some bloke knows some bloke in the pub etc. I posted that video, not because of the little 11 year olds skill, but his balance, immediate burst of pace, awareness of the other lads position and then the composure shown by that lad when he received the ball. I saw plenty of kids with eye catching tricks in Sunday football in that age group,it's not what a scout looks for unless he's got a whole lot more.
For me the worst thing about the professional Academy system ( especially at Cat 1 level) is the amount of coaches who have an alarming lack of people skills, which can end up destroying a lads confidence over time. Only yesterday I had a dad/friend on the phone who's having trouble trying to get his son out of his contract without compensation, having gone from being voted Premier league goalkeeper of the tournament last summer at St Georges park by the PL coaches, to playing the whole of the year down an age group and becoming the victim of blatant favouritism(done right in front of him sometimes)without any explanation. It's destroyed him as a lad, and he's become a shell of the boy he was, waking up in tears during the night. Yes it's a brutal business mentally, but there's still ways and means of going about things. To give you an idea of this lads talent and the scouting network, he's at a top London club,yet already a Merseyside club have been on the phone offering accommodation and God knows what else.
The worst thing for me about the professional academy system
David Weir is a perfect example of the failure of the academy system, he was dumped and ignored, went to the USA and then had to fight his way back into Scottish football. Subsequently went on to have the longest playing career in the premiership and captained for his country (and he's a really nice guy).What experience have you had of the professional Academy system here have you had, to make you feel that your kid wouldn't be picked up?I here this a lot ( in fact it' been mentioned some posts back).The scouting network now is so vast, kids simply don't get missed, and they don't get a trial 'cos some bloke knows some bloke in the pub etc. I posted that video, not because of the little 11 year olds skill, but his balance, immediate burst of pace, awareness of the other lads position and then the composure shown by that lad when he received the ball. I saw plenty of kids with eye catching tricks in Sunday football in that age group,it's not what a scout looks for unless he's got a whole lot more.
For me the worst thing about the professional Academy system ( especially at Cat 1 level) is the amount of coaches who have an alarming lack of people skills, which can end up destroying a lads confidence over time. Only yesterday I had a dad/friend on the phone who's having trouble trying to get his son out of his contract without compensation, having gone from being voted Premier league goalkeeper of the tournament last summer at St Georges park by the PL coaches, to playing the whole of the year down an age group and becoming the victim of blatant favouritism(done right in front of him sometimes)without any explanation. It's destroyed him as a lad, and he's become a shell of the boy he was, waking up in tears during the night. Yes it's a brutal business mentally, but there's still ways and means of going about things. To give you an idea of this lads talent and the scouting network, he's at a top London club,yet already a Merseyside club have been on the phone offering accommodation and God knows what else.
The worst thing for me about the professional academy system
WRT the video, I couldn't agree more, it's more than just the skill of the footwork; the decision making and awareness of that cutback is brilliant.
I do kid you not though, my lad plays for a team in Cheshire that have kids with that level of skill and awareness (they're under tens as well). A couple of them have been in premiership academy development squads for a couple of years (the club had close connections with the academy for a while). On the other hand there is one lad who has stand out skills who was picked up by that academy in summer but was dropped after 6 weeks. I have no doubt that he was dropped because he can be temperamental and a bit sulky but ffs he's 10 years old (this isn't my lad by the way). This is what I mean when I said about "above all nurture talent", with a good coach this lad could absolutely fly but he was dumped.
I also completely agree with you about the people skills issue, it's astonishing just how bad these people are; any corporation employing managers like this would have gone bankrupt years ago. Our own experience of a P1 academy was no better, my lad was brought in to a development squad and dropped in the second week. He didn't play to anything like the standard he is capable of because he was absolutely terrified, the coaches never spoke directly to him, never introduced themselves and just acted like a bunch of arrogant, power drunk halfwits (for a reason, they are). I may seem a bit bitter, I'm not, my lad is not ready mentally for this level of challenge and this proved it. What I find disappointing is that they must churn tens of thousands of talented kids through these academies without ever looking at the final results or considering what they are doing wrong. The consequences can be seen at national and international level.
XM5ER said:
David Weir is a perfect example of the failure of the academy system, he was dumped and ignored, went to the USA and then had to fight his way back into Scottish football. Subsequently went on to have the longest playing career in the premiership and captained for his country (and he's a really nice guy).
I met him once, outside Schalkes ground before watching Argentina v Serbia & Montenegro at the World Cup in 2006. Happy to pose for a photo, we were all in Scotland tops at the time. And what a game...I'm glad it's not just me who is fed up of the way the majority of clubs are run. My son loves football, but didn't get picked in the team but is happy just training and playing with his mates there. We now do hockey as well which is much more inclusive (I played at a fairly decent level for a long time) so he'll get the same experiences of winning, losing etc with a lot less of the politics.
Kinky said:
To be honest, I'm really glad that Kinky junior did not express a serious interest in Club academy-level. I've heard all the same horror stories (never any positive ones actually), like the one above. There's been so so may of them.
But also on the point above about the parents - that just frustrates me so much. I'm the only parent in the team who stands and watches them training. Everyone just dumps them off and run. Wind, rain, hail or snow, I'm there. It's a little better on match day - but still frustrates me so much.
As a parent you invest so much time and money on club fees, kit, taking them to training and matches every week - up to an hours drive away. They should be taking an interest. I just don't get it.
Only just seen this thread but would like to offer a non horror story. I have two sons who are now 19 and 15. The nineteen year old has been in a academy system since he was 8. It hasn't been perfect and occasionally its been harsh (only 4 of his original group of 20 got pro contracts and during the last 10 years there have probably been another 50/60 that have come and gone) . There are coaches out there with no people skills (and he's had a couple) and who show favouritism. I do feel its been character building though with ups and downs along the way. There is a high failure rate and I do feel within the last 3/4 years the clubs want even more commitment to the extent that 12 year olds are only doing 4 days a week at school! Having said all that he's come through thick and thin and made his premiership debut last year. He still hasn't "made" it yet but he's a fighting chance of having a good career.But also on the point above about the parents - that just frustrates me so much. I'm the only parent in the team who stands and watches them training. Everyone just dumps them off and run. Wind, rain, hail or snow, I'm there. It's a little better on match day - but still frustrates me so much.
As a parent you invest so much time and money on club fees, kit, taking them to training and matches every week - up to an hours drive away. They should be taking an interest. I just don't get it.
The 15 year old whilst being quite a good player, plays for a local team with all his mates and just enjoys it (ability wis he could play a couple of leagues higher). He has also qualified as a referee (the oldest also refer for a couple of seasons) and now does a couple of games (£50!!) on a Sunday. I have to say that some of the parents are atrocius but the best bit of advice he was given was that his decision is the right one and just ignore any comments. Reffing is not easy and certainly build confidence and character.
I don't watch him train but try to get to every match- its strikes me as a bit weird that some parents just don't show up at all.
craig1912 said:
Kinky said:
To be honest, I'm really glad that Kinky junior did not express a serious interest in Club academy-level. I've heard all the same horror stories (never any positive ones actually), like the one above. There's been so so may of them.
But also on the point above about the parents - that just frustrates me so much. I'm the only parent in the team who stands and watches them training. Everyone just dumps them off and run. Wind, rain, hail or snow, I'm there. It's a little better on match day - but still frustrates me so much.
As a parent you invest so much time and money on club fees, kit, taking them to training and matches every week - up to an hours drive away. They should be taking an interest. I just don't get it.
Only just seen this thread but would like to offer a non horror story. I have two sons who are now 19 and 15. The nineteen year old has been in a academy system since he was 8. It hasn't been perfect and occasionally its been harsh (only 4 of his original group of 20 got pro contracts and during the last 10 years there have probably been another 50/60 that have come and gone) . There are coaches out there with no people skills (and he's had a couple) and who show favouritism. I do feel its been character building though with ups and downs along the way. There is a high failure rate and I do feel within the last 3/4 years the clubs want even more commitment to the extent that 12 year olds are only doing 4 days a week at school! Having said all that he's come through thick and thin and made his premiership debut last year. He still hasn't "made" it yet but he's a fighting chance of having a good career.But also on the point above about the parents - that just frustrates me so much. I'm the only parent in the team who stands and watches them training. Everyone just dumps them off and run. Wind, rain, hail or snow, I'm there. It's a little better on match day - but still frustrates me so much.
As a parent you invest so much time and money on club fees, kit, taking them to training and matches every week - up to an hours drive away. They should be taking an interest. I just don't get it.
The commitment thing for parent and child as you well know is massive. Easily 20K miles PA a year for me just on his football,at the moment and as an under 13 this season it's Monday/Wednesday/Friday eve's and Saturday morning for training or sports science etc, and Sunday for matches,and as you say,day release thrown in as well!
craig1912 said:
The 15 year old whilst being quite a good player, plays for a local team with all his mates and just enjoys it (ability wis he could play a couple of leagues higher). He has also qualified as a referee (the oldest also refer for a couple of seasons) and now does a couple of games (£50!!) on a Sunday. I have to say that some of the parents are atrocius but the best bit of advice he was given was that his decision is the right one and just ignore any comments. Reffing is not easy and certainly build confidence and character.
I don't watch him train but try to get to every match- its strikes me as a bit weird that some parents just don't show up at all.
So what's the chance of him sending off his older brother one day on the tele'......an ambition perhaps?!I don't watch him train but try to get to every match- its strikes me as a bit weird that some parents just don't show up at all.
j4ckos mate said:
My lad wont get spotted, hes not a that good,
it seems to me that the clubs get these kids with a trawling type action,
they seem more worried that they wont get the one decent kid so theyll get a few down just in case
It's honestly not like that at all.it seems to me that the clubs get these kids with a trawling type action,
they seem more worried that they wont get the one decent kid so theyll get a few down just in case
It cost's 2-3 million quid each year to run a Cat 1 academy, even at Cat 3 it £500,000 a year. No club is just going to take kids on for the sake of it, they want a return on that investment.
sjc said:
Great to hear. In fact four out of the original 20 getting a contract is a great return for a club.For your lad that last line of your comment above is the most telling,with that ringing in his ear he'll have every chance I'm sure. Very best of luck to him.
The commitment thing for parent and child as you well know is massive. Easily 20K miles PA a year for me just on his football,at the moment and as an under 13 this season it's Monday/Wednesday/Friday eve's and Saturday morning for training or sports science etc, and Sunday for matches,and as you say,day release thrown in as well!
So what's the chance of him sending off his older brother one day on the tele'......an ambition perhaps?!
The commitment is huge and sacrifices have to be made (and also ensure his brother gets equal attention)- but what an experience, not only has he played at most premiership training grounds he has also played at many grounds too- Anfield, White Hart Lane, etc. He has also had the opportunity to play in USA, Spain, France, Holland and Scandinavia.The commitment thing for parent and child as you well know is massive. Easily 20K miles PA a year for me just on his football,at the moment and as an under 13 this season it's Monday/Wednesday/Friday eve's and Saturday morning for training or sports science etc, and Sunday for matches,and as you say,day release thrown in as well!
So what's the chance of him sending off his older brother one day on the tele'......an ambition perhaps?!
One thing we did do was make sure he got his GCSE's and whilst in his scholarship years he also got a BTEC in sports science so if it doesn't work out for whatever reason he has something to fall back on.
Do I want my youngest to carry on refereeing? Mixed views but if he is strong enough to withstand the abuse then maybe.
Another great game
17-1, the pitch was horrific and the wind was howling,
it was like playing in the Falkland islands!
still the same situation, we kicked the ball out five times to their strikers from a goal kick,
keeper turns and walks back doesn't see it till its too late,
picks up back passe, so that was another free kick,
to be fair its not just his fault, they all have a part to play,
we had a striker who was walking about for the last few weeks, so manager picks him again,
same result.
team has a few sort of sub groups
Keeper just doesn't want to be there
Five or six that have been there for years, aren't bothered about the results, as managers mates parents kids, and will play regardless of attitude and ability
need dropping)
Two just want to mess about, and distract the others
(they needs volleying)
Seven are just a disaster, its not for them.
that leaves my lad and three of his mates,
they have kept it going really, been torn about loyalty, but stuck with it regardless of results.
I cant blame the less able ones for not being any good, my lad was like that a few seasons ago,
but they aren't going to learn where they are now.
so hes still training an extra day with another team to see what happens
j4ckos mate said:
that leaves my lad and three of his mates,
they have kept it going really, been torn about loyalty, but stuck with it regardless of results.
Seriously , what are you waiting for. Get him (and his mates) to a better team and stop wasting his and your time. You don't owe a crap team like that any loyalty, not when you have stupid and disadvantageous favouritism going on.they have kept it going really, been torn about loyalty, but stuck with it regardless of results.
If your lad plays well, he'll soon make new friends and he'll enjoy the game a lot more. If he carries on in the team you've been describing, he'll end up completely sick of it and stop playing all together.
Fair enough. We moved our lad a couple of seasons ago (he was only in the U8s mind you). It was a dilemma at the time as the team he was in was quite successful and they had some good players on the bench plus I'd just personally stumped up £250 sponsorship for a new kit; however we had the opportunity to go to a team that had an ex Barca coach doing the training as well as excellent facilities, so we went for it. My lad didn't look back and soon made new friends. We did make the move at the end of the season and he did have to go for a bit of a try out to see which of the 2 squads he should go into, so your way of going along to the training with a view to moving in June is probably a good one. Maybe you could broach the subject of him joining the squad in January, there always a bit of movement around Christmas time.
XM5ER said:
Maybe you could broach the subject of him joining the squad in January, there always a bit of movement around Christmas time.
Good shout, this!Can't remember which age group this is or whether it is even competitiive football or not but some leagues have cut off dates after which you can't change teams. In our league, it's somewhere around the end of March. I'd check this fact out and get your lad in before the deadline.
played 10 won o drawn o lost 10,
goals for 4 goals against 132.
we play a team at weekend that we love to hate and the feeling is mutual, bottom against next to bottom
itll be a dirty scrap of a game im predicting 9-0
been training with is other lot again last night, we get there half an hour early and have a kick around ourselves, just me and him
One thing i found odd thought though that the parents didn't give them a hand with nets and repsect barrier, which i find very strange, nor an end of season do either,
The thing is i could pull my lad out right now, then he wont have a team or training to go to twice a week, so although its beating every weekend, hes playing footy and training.
He said the other night though he wants to hand his kit back to his manager personally, when he leaves.
goals for 4 goals against 132.
we play a team at weekend that we love to hate and the feeling is mutual, bottom against next to bottom
itll be a dirty scrap of a game im predicting 9-0
been training with is other lot again last night, we get there half an hour early and have a kick around ourselves, just me and him
One thing i found odd thought though that the parents didn't give them a hand with nets and repsect barrier, which i find very strange, nor an end of season do either,
The thing is i could pull my lad out right now, then he wont have a team or training to go to twice a week, so although its beating every weekend, hes playing footy and training.
He said the other night though he wants to hand his kit back to his manager personally, when he leaves.
Edited by j4ckos mate on Wednesday 2nd December 14:09
Just back from Kinky Juniors league game .... really bizarre.
We're mid-table, playing away to the runaway leaders (but we have 3 games in hand). There was not 1 single parent in attendance from the opposition. In all my years, I don't think I've ever witnessed that at all. It was the oddest thing.
They only had the manager and coach there, and the coach ended up running the line for them!
Totally bizarre. Parents only started showing up about 10 mins from the end. They kind of filtered in. Obviously there to pick them up. I'm genuinely flabbergasted.
And for the record, Kinky Junior was captain, kept a clean sheet (although he was the busiest player on the pitch), scored a goal (a very long goal kick (not wind assisted) that fooled the opposition) and we won 3-0. And to cap it all off he was Man of The Match
And rightly so 
We're mid-table, playing away to the runaway leaders (but we have 3 games in hand). There was not 1 single parent in attendance from the opposition. In all my years, I don't think I've ever witnessed that at all. It was the oddest thing.
They only had the manager and coach there, and the coach ended up running the line for them!
Totally bizarre. Parents only started showing up about 10 mins from the end. They kind of filtered in. Obviously there to pick them up. I'm genuinely flabbergasted.
And for the record, Kinky Junior was captain, kept a clean sheet (although he was the busiest player on the pitch), scored a goal (a very long goal kick (not wind assisted) that fooled the opposition) and we won 3-0. And to cap it all off he was Man of The Match
And rightly so Well. Things are looking up
Although the pitches are a mess and he's not played, he's trained with his old team (crap one) and also with his new one
(Good one)
Last night after a few weeks of training good team manager says he has to start paying to train, which is fair do's
And for him to sign on, which is great news
So plan of action is to see if he gets a fair run out in the new one if he does.
Then to kick the crap team into touch,
Although the pitches are a mess and he's not played, he's trained with his old team (crap one) and also with his new one
(Good one)
Last night after a few weeks of training good team manager says he has to start paying to train, which is fair do's
And for him to sign on, which is great news
So plan of action is to see if he gets a fair run out in the new one if he does.
Then to kick the crap team into touch,
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