The Official Chelsea Thread [Vol 2]
Discussion
Gandahar said:
little horse to big horse to little donkey with 3 legs. Those 3 legs all being at the rear.
When Jose is asked to pull the Christmas cracker come 25th he's going to look at it for a long time and wonder what will come out.
Seems the caterpillar has emerged from its cocoon as a shark, a shark with a gun for a mouthWhen Jose is asked to pull the Christmas cracker come 25th he's going to look at it for a long time and wonder what will come out.
smn159 said:
Gandahar said:
little horse to big horse to little donkey with 3 legs. Those 3 legs all being at the rear.
When Jose is asked to pull the Christmas cracker come 25th he's going to look at it for a long time and wonder what will come out.
Seems the caterpillar has emerged from its cocoon as a shark, a shark with a gun for a mouthWhen Jose is asked to pull the Christmas cracker come 25th he's going to look at it for a long time and wonder what will come out.
Is this a case of mourihno being exposed because he has only ever managed top flight teams with loads of star players that he can rely on to win games and when it comes to working with a group of players with problems he comes up short?
he is used to winning and winning with arguably the best team, bit like mercedes in F1, and when it comes to resolving problems or dealing with personalities there isn't the experience of having HAD to work with rubbish in the past he's lost for what to do....
Fabregas to name but one is clearly so badly off form yet he still plays. the team actually don't look fit to me, i know some of them had busy summers but they don't look physically fit across the park.
add in to the mix, the egos, the salaries, the managers' personality and it all begins to look very shaky...
Champs league has to be your focus and write the league off.
he is used to winning and winning with arguably the best team, bit like mercedes in F1, and when it comes to resolving problems or dealing with personalities there isn't the experience of having HAD to work with rubbish in the past he's lost for what to do....
Fabregas to name but one is clearly so badly off form yet he still plays. the team actually don't look fit to me, i know some of them had busy summers but they don't look physically fit across the park.
add in to the mix, the egos, the salaries, the managers' personality and it all begins to look very shaky...
Champs league has to be your focus and write the league off.
Nom de ploom said:
Is this a case of mourihno being exposed because he has only ever managed top flight teams with loads of star players that he can rely on to win games and when it comes to working with a group of players with problems he comes up short?
He won the CL with Porto, who weren't that good a team and wasn't full of star players.He won the CL with Inter, who hadn't won it for over 40 yrs and were nothing special.
TwigtheWonderkid said:
He won the CL with Porto, who weren't that good a team and wasn't full of star players.
He won the CL with Inter, who hadn't won it for over 40 yrs and were nothing special.
You could also argue that he won the league last year that was good enough to finish 3rd or 4th at best - I'd say both Man U and City both had better squads, and did it with very little net spend to speak of. He won the CL with Inter, who hadn't won it for over 40 yrs and were nothing special.
Sadly I think that's what's done us this year - starting with pretty much the same squad (in fact slightly inferior) and very few new players to freshen the squad up and provide competition for places.
Must admit I'm still of the opinion we'd be daft to get rid of him. He's still clearly one of the best in the business, and had been responsible for a great deal of the success we've had over the past 12 years - plus there's always the danger he'd turn up at Manu/City next season then we wouldn't get a look in for 3 - 4 years at a minimum.
TwigtheWonderkid said:
Nom de ploom said:
Is this a case of mourihno being exposed because he has only ever managed top flight teams with loads of star players that he can rely on to win games and when it comes to working with a group of players with problems he comes up short?
He won the CL with Porto, who weren't that good a team and wasn't full of star players.He won the CL with Inter, who hadn't won it for over 40 yrs and were nothing special.
improving a team like Inter by 10-20% reaped rewards but they won the league for two years in a row (three if you include the title award) the year before JM took over...by no means average
TwigtheWonderkid said:
He won the CL with Inter, who hadn't won it for over 40 yrs and were nothing special.
They had won Serie A for the previous 3 seasons, were the biggest & richest club in Italy and he inherited a team including:Balotelli
Cambiasso
Chivu
Córdoba
J. Zanetti
Júlio César
Maicon
Materazzi
Muntari
Samuel
Stanković
Stevanović
Toldo
Plus he spent another €100m. I think labelling them as "nothing special" is somewhat inaccurate.
Nom de ploom said:
ok but neither Porto nor Inter were CL noobs and were still top flight teams, not like he took over at Brescia or Fulham and improved them by 100%.
improving a team like Inter by 10-20% reaped rewards but they won the league for two years in a row (three if you include the title award) the year before JM took over...by no means average
Um, they only won the league the two years before because Juventus had been demoted to Serie B and AC Milan had a 10 point deduction - both of which took a few years to recover from. Brandan could probably have won the league with Inter in those years. Yet during those years, the best they managed in the Champions League was a Quarter Final where they lost to the might of Villareal. Other than that it was an early bath in the first knockout round. improving a team like Inter by 10-20% reaped rewards but they won the league for two years in a row (three if you include the title award) the year before JM took over...by no means average
I remember we met them the year they won - over two legs, with a massively inferior team, Jose managed to make Carlo look like a complete amateur, which most people think led to Carlo's moment in the Everton tunnel.
Strange - you've got Fergie coming out today saying Jose is pretty much one of the best in the world, yet there is always someone who knows better....
but if you read my original post I posed it as a question rather than a statement.
I agree with Tekno - hard to say inter were inferior with that team and three scudettos behind them before JM took over.
I'm not suggesting he's rubbish, merely that he is in relatively unknown territory and as opposed to the usual bravado and charisma, that only gets you so far, at the moment it seems more than that is required...
I agree with Tekno - hard to say inter were inferior with that team and three scudettos behind them before JM took over.
I'm not suggesting he's rubbish, merely that he is in relatively unknown territory and as opposed to the usual bravado and charisma, that only gets you so far, at the moment it seems more than that is required...
Nom de ploom said:
but if you read my original post I posed it as a question rather than a statement.
I agree with Tekno - hard to say inter were inferior with that team and three scudettos behind them before JM took over.
I'm not suggesting he's rubbish, merely that he is in relatively unknown territory and as opposed to the usual bravado and charisma, that only gets you so far, at the moment it seems more than that is required...
Yes, a question which I answered for you.....I agree with Tekno - hard to say inter were inferior with that team and three scudettos behind them before JM took over.
I'm not suggesting he's rubbish, merely that he is in relatively unknown territory and as opposed to the usual bravado and charisma, that only gets you so far, at the moment it seems more than that is required...
TwigtheWonderkid said:
He won the CL with Inter, who hadn't won it for over 40 yrs and were nothing special.
That's laughable. The amount of silverware won by Inter surpasses that of Chelsea. And that they didn't won it for over 40 years says nothing; how many times did Chelsea win the CL ? and who paid for the favor ? how many times did Chelsea even participate in the Europa Cup 1/CL ?Inter won the treble in 2009/2010 and had a good squad. Just like Chelsea when they won theirs.
TEKNOPUG said:
[
They had won Serie A for the previous 3 seasons, were the biggest & richest club in Italy and he inherited a team including:
Balotelli
Cambiasso
Chivu
Córdoba
J. Zanetti
Júlio César
Maicon
Materazzi
Muntari
Samuel
Stankovic
Stevanovic
Toldo
Plus he spent another €100m. I think labelling them as "nothing special" is somewhat inaccurate.
+ Wesley Sneijder. He and Eto'O were the main drivers of the Inter succes in that year.They had won Serie A for the previous 3 seasons, were the biggest & richest club in Italy and he inherited a team including:
Balotelli
Cambiasso
Chivu
Córdoba
J. Zanetti
Júlio César
Maicon
Materazzi
Muntari
Samuel
Stankovic
Stevanovic
Toldo
Plus he spent another €100m. I think labelling them as "nothing special" is somewhat inaccurate.
Sneijder won the Silver Bal, Bronze shoe and was chosen European midfielder of the year 2010, won the threble with Inter and reached to final of the WC. To the outrage of many, only chosen 4th that year for the Ballon D'or behind three Barca players, who managed to win the Spanish title and WC but were not chosen among the top 3 players of WC2010. Messi ofcourse ending 1st (that's the same Messi who somehow managed to win the player of the WC award in 2014 after a individual dissapointing WC).
Edited by DeltonaS on Monday 7th December 17:38
TwigtheWonderkid said:
If Inter were that good, how come they went into their semi against Barca with no one giving them a hope in hell.
Because Mourinho (and Italian teams) mastered the game of sitting back. Which he did to a greater extent in those days. Ofcourse playing like that to such an extent with teams like Chelsea and Real that would unacceptable. bodhi said:
I'd also ask that if Inter was such a great squad, how did they get on the year after Jose left?
Not that some on this thread would ever give Jose any credit for anything.
Jose did have a big role in Inter succes, no doubt. But his defensive approach, which worked so well at Inter, wasn't well received at Real. And I think the way he prepared his team mentally and his behaviour, especially the way he approached the outside world, became increasingly OTT. Not that some on this thread would ever give Jose any credit for anything.
DeltonaS said:
Jose did have a big role in Inter succes, no doubt. But his defensive approach, which worked so well at Inter, wasn't well received at Real. And I think the way he prepared his team mentally and his behaviour, especially the way he approached the outside world, became increasingly OTT.
Ah, that explains then why the Real fans were chanting his name during the recent defeat to Barca, and why when he won the league with them they broke the goal scoring record and won against one of the best teams in the history of football. Yes, he wasn't well recieved at all. I think the only situation he was criticised by the Real fans for was dropping Casillas, but in time, who was provied right in that situation.
As Fergie said yesterday, we'd be daft to get rid of the manager that's brought us 3 titles in 6 years.
TEKNOPUG said:
bodhi said:
As Fergie said yesterday, we'd be daft to get rid of the manager that's brought us 3 titles in 6 years.
You don't think that maybe Fergie has an ulterior motive, what with him being a ManU fan.......Gassing Station | Football | Top of Page | What's New | My Stuff