The Official Barcelona FC Thread

The Official Barcelona FC Thread

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Discussion

im

34,302 posts

216 months

Monday 14th January 2013
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simoid said:
It is wrong to assume that RM and FCB are rich simply because of TV income distribution.

90,000 fans per week helps too, plus involvement to the latter stages of the Champions League and a global brand.
Thats a given - but their continued 'complete and utter' dominance is greatly aided by the TV deals they strike.

Here's the TV revenue split per club in the EPL and is BEFORE THE NEW DEAL KICKS IN!



The new deal will give the bottom EPL club a greater TV revenue than Man City had last season when winning the league!!! Thats over £60m per year yikes

By contrast, the bottom Spanish clubs receive about £5m.

The Beaver King

6,095 posts

194 months

Monday 14th January 2013
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robmlufc said:
An impressive fact about Barcelona is that they can field a first 11 made up players from their own academy, so while I'm sure the wages are pretty good you can not say they buy the league like Chelsea and City have done in recent years.
The difference is thought that if you have the potential to be a good player in Spain, then you will end up at the Barc or Real Youth Academy. They get the youth talent because they are the only two 'big' clubs.

Go back a few years and the same was true of Manchester United as they were the big club and every youngest wanted to get into their academy. It is no different than a kid trying to get into the best university.

simoid

19,772 posts

157 months

Monday 14th January 2013
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im said:
By contrast, the bottom Spanish clubs receive about £5m.
Because barely anybody turns the TV on to watch Osasuna vs Granada.

That's life smile

AMG01

420 posts

141 months

Monday 14th January 2013
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DocJock said:
Err, tonights opponents (Malaga) topped their ECL group beating Milan and Zenit.

Athletico Madrid stuffed the ECL champions in the SuperCup.
Remember facts aren't allowed, La Liga is mince!

In addition to the above Man U got put out of Europe by the team that finished 6th as mentioned above. The standard of La Liga is very high, problem being, Real Madrid and Barca are so good it makes the other teams look poor when in reality they are very good.

As for the comment regarding Stoke, Valenica managed ok when they played them last season at the Britannia.

simoid

19,772 posts

157 months

Monday 14th January 2013
quotequote all
AMG01 said:
DocJock said:
Err, tonights opponents (Malaga) topped their ECL group beating Milan and Zenit.

Athletico Madrid stuffed the ECL champions in the SuperCup.
Remember facts aren't allowed, La Liga is mince!

In addition to the above Man U got put out of Europe by the team that finished 6th as mentioned above. The standard of La Liga is very high, problem being, Real Madrid and Barca are so good it makes the other teams look poor when in reality they are very good.

As for the comment regarding Stoke, Valenica managed ok when they played them last season at the Britannia.
"Facts"?

You can take any facts about individual games you want, and use them as the drunk uses a lampost.

Celtic beat Barcelona, but failed to beat Dundee Utd the week before, or St Johnstone the week after rofl


MrMagoo

Original Poster:

3,208 posts

161 months

Monday 14th January 2013
quotequote all
simoid said:
"Facts"?

You can take any facts about individual games you want, and use them as the drunk uses a lampost.

Celtic beat Barcelona, but failed to beat Dundee Utd the week before, or St Johnstone the week after rofl
Barcelona are not a team of gods. It is possible to get a result against them as many teams have (Celtic, Arsenal and Chelsea to name but a few) But to say that they only seem as good as they are because they play in La Liga is ridiculous. La Liga is a very Strong League. It would be foolish to assume that the league isn't based on the results that Barca and Real get against most teams. you only have to look at the talent that has come in from that league to the Prem to see just how many quality players apply there trade in La Liga. and how many players have gone to Spain after having success in the Prem but found it difficult to replicate that in La Liga. On a technical level there isn't a better league in the world IMHO.

The fact that the Premier League is the most unpredictable (although its quickly becoming more and more predictable) somehow translates it into being the best league in the world confused all depends on what your own opinion of what makes a league great. for me its the way the football is played.

digikal

2,202 posts

148 months

Monday 14th January 2013
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The Premier League is average in quality and border line dross for the most part, where teams struggle to string more than two passes together and resort to running around at 100 mph to make up for the lack of skill and composure. Its a league where players like Terry and Parker get lauded for making last ditch tackles, which they wouldnt have to make if they could read the game properly.

Spanish, German and Italian leagues all have a much higher standard of play. Hence we saw United being taken apart by a mid table Spanish side and City taught a footballing lesson by Dortmund.

AMG01

420 posts

141 months

Monday 14th January 2013
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MrMagoo said:
Barcelona are not a team of gods. It is possible to get a result against them as many teams have (Celtic, Arsenal and Chelsea to name but a few) But to say that they only seem as good as they are because they play in La Liga is ridiculous. La Liga is a very Strong League. It would be foolish to assume that the league isn't based on the results that Barca and Real get against most teams. you only have to look at the talent that has come in from that league to the Prem to see just how many quality players apply there trade in La Liga. and how many players have gone to Spain after having success in the Prem but found it difficult to replicate that in La Liga. On a technical level there isn't a better league in the world IMHO.

The fact that the Premier League is the most unpredictable (although its quickly becoming more and more predictable) somehow translates it into being the best league in the world confused all depends on what your own opinion of what makes a league great. for me its the way the football is played.
Completely agree

simoid

19,772 posts

157 months

Monday 14th January 2013
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digikal said:
The Premier League is average in quality and border line dross for the most part, where teams struggle to string more than two passes together and resort to running around at 100 mph to make up for the lack of skill and composure. Its a league where players like Terry and Parker get lauded for making last ditch tackles, which they wouldnt have to make if they could read the game properly.

Spanish, German and Italian leagues all have a much higher standard of play. Hence we saw United being taken apart by a mid table Spanish side and City taught a footballing lesson by Dortmund.
Some would say that Bilbao were highly motivated and United couldn't give a hoot about the UEFA Cup.

BJG1

5,966 posts

211 months

Monday 14th January 2013
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Black can man said:
essexplumber said:
In a nothing league with only one genuine opponent. I'd like to see them do that week in week out in the EPL.
Didn't do them much good against a side that finished 6th in the prem last season , over two legs too
The quality of the Spanish league is just fine. Remind me who Man Utd got their ass handed to them by in the Waffa Cup last year?

If you think bottom half teams in La Liga are particularly worse than Reading, Southampton, Norwich QPR etc you're wrong IMO. We have 3 teams with lots of world class players, they have 2 but are Spurs and Arsenal considerably better than Athletico Madrid or Valencia? Not in my opinion.

BJG1

5,966 posts

211 months

Monday 14th January 2013
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MrMagoo said:
Black can man said:
They are a delight to watch of that there is no question, would be interesting to see how pep goes with an EPL team ?
I don't see the fascination with pep. Tito (the new Barca manager) has come in and there even better then when pep left so I guess he's the next god like manager. The players they have mean that no matter what team they go up against, man for man they'll be better then them.

I truly think it would be more of an achievement if a manager came in and managed NOT to win a trophy with these players.
When Pep took over they were in disarray and finished miles behind Madrid. He completely overhauled the philosophy, got rid of Ronaldinho and took great players and made them some of the best ever. Would say he turned Xavi from one of the best central midfielders around to one of the best of all time. He was obviously helped by Messi getting so good though.

The new guy has a much easier job than Pep.

MrMagoo

Original Poster:

3,208 posts

161 months

Monday 14th January 2013
quotequote all
BJG1 said:
MrMagoo said:
Black can man said:
They are a delight to watch of that there is no question, would be interesting to see how pep goes with an EPL team ?
I don't see the fascination with pep. Tito (the new Barca manager) has come in and there even better then when pep left so I guess he's the next god like manager. The players they have mean that no matter what team they go up against, man for man they'll be better then them.

I truly think it would be more of an achievement if a manager came in and managed NOT to win a trophy with these players.
When Pep took over they were in disarray and finished miles behind Madrid. He completely overhauled the philosophy, got rid of Ronaldinho and took great players and made them some of the best ever. Would say he turned Xavi from one of the best central midfielders around to one of the best of all time. He was obviously helped by Messi getting so good though.

The new guy has a much easier job than Pep.
I was being a bit harsh on Pep as he is obviously a very good manger to have achieved what he has. I also agree on Tito having a much easier job as the foundations are already there to be successful. My point is however that Pep had the advantage of dipping into the finest footballing academy in the world. while he overhauled the philosophy of the club what he had to do so, was a team that comprised of some of the finest footballers to ever play the game. To be perfectly honest i don't know how many players he bought in himself but id make a guess that the majority of the team that would go on and bring him success was already there. Would be happy to be proved wrong though. I'd be fascinated to see how he gets on at anther club, and weather he can make that team play in the style he wants.

im

34,302 posts

216 months

Monday 14th January 2013
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BJG1 said:
The quality of the Spanish league is just fine. Remind me who Man Utd got their ass handed to them by in the Waffa Cup last year?
Kinda missing the C-H-E-L-S-E-A ingredient aint we?

Our 5th placed team saw off both Spain & Germans best offerings. In the case of Barcelona - this is supposedly the greatest team the world has ever seen. And lets not forget the Germans, beaten in their own back yard in the ECL final.

London424

12,826 posts

174 months

Monday 14th January 2013
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im said:
BJG1 said:
The quality of the Spanish league is just fine. Remind me who Man Utd got their ass handed to them by in the Waffa Cup last year?
Kinda missing the C-H-E-L-S-E-A ingredient aint we?

Our 5th placed team saw off both Spain & Germans best offerings. In the case of Barcelona - this is supposedly the greatest team the world has ever seen. And lets not forget the Germans, beaten in their own back yard in the ECL final.
Now I know you are making a point, but I'm pretty sure that Chelsea could play those games 100 times more and I don't know if they'd be able to beat them again wink

im

34,302 posts

216 months

Monday 14th January 2013
quotequote all
London424 said:
im said:
BJG1 said:
The quality of the Spanish league is just fine. Remind me who Man Utd got their ass handed to them by in the Waffa Cup last year?
Kinda missing the C-H-E-L-S-E-A ingredient aint we?

Our 5th placed team saw off both Spain & Germans best offerings. In the case of Barcelona - this is supposedly the greatest team the world has ever seen. And lets not forget the Germans, beaten in their own back yard in the ECL final.
Now I know you are making a point, but I'm pretty sure that Chelsea could play those games 100 times more and I don't know if they'd be able to beat them again wink
I reckon they'd beat Barca about 20% (1 in 5) of the time at home - christ even Celtic beat them. Certainly not 0 in 100.

Bayern?...not as good as the hype IMO. I'd expect Chelsea to beat them 60% of the time on a neutral ground.

The point I'm making is: Would the 5th place team in Spain or Germany ever win the ECL? No chance, and we've done it twice. And it'll happen to another EPL team before any of their countries manage it.

All, IMHO of course.

simoid

19,772 posts

157 months

Monday 14th January 2013
quotequote all
im said:
BJG1 said:
The quality of the Spanish league is just fine. Remind me who Man Utd got their ass handed to them by in the Waffa Cup last year?
Kinda missing the C-H-E-L-S-E-A ingredient aint we?

Our 5th placed team saw off both Spain & Germans best offerings. In the case of Barcelona - this is supposedly the greatest team the world has ever seen. And lets not forget the Germans, beaten in their own back yard in the ECL final.
You're missing the point.

You can't judge these things over one or two games - it has to be a trend over a few seasons. English teams were pretty dominant for a while at the start of this decade - with 3 or 4 regularly into the quarter finals. Not so much any more, obviously.

Comparing the Europa League results is ridiculous as 9 times out of 10 the English teams don't give a hoot about that competition and would rather save their legs for the Premier League fixtures either side of the midweek trip to Eastern Europe.

The jiffle king

6,894 posts

257 months

Monday 14th January 2013
quotequote all
Having lived in Barca for over 3 years and watched the games, the technical ability of the Spanish teams is far superior to the EPL. The first touch of many of the players is way beyond what we see on MOTD. The Premier league however is more entertaining (in my opinion) and played at a faster pace with more physical contact which means that the ability to trap a ball perfectly is less revered than thundering box to box.

The Barca academy are just sublime. A friends 15yr old played them for the last 3 seasons in the local U14/15/16 and we went to watch and the skill level vs an U16 game in the UK was so different. The ball does the work in Spain and the games are very different to watch.

The top 2 (I know RM are not there this year) are a different class, and Barca in particular have a team of kids who would run rings around lower league Premier teams, but get out muscled. It´s a different way of playing and the Champions league is the place where we see the winner. Recently, it´s been Barca, but the EPL teams don´t do too badly.

The standard in both countries is improving technically in my opinion due to the influx of foreign players. Lets hope that the academy system improves in England and we see the likes of Luke Shaw (from the Mighty Saints) and others showing the right level of technical ability to challenge the top teams

obob

4,193 posts

193 months

Monday 14th January 2013
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Technical ability is better in the Spanish league but the entertainment and drama of the Premier League makes up for that and more.

obob

4,193 posts

193 months

Monday 14th January 2013
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Oh and in the last 5 years England have had more teams in the CL final then Spain or Germany.

maisoumenos

22 posts

135 months

Monday 14th January 2013
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A common belief among UK coaches is that by possession football you can work the oppostion and let the ball do the work. Yes this is correct but does not translate into effective possession football. Barcelona are masters of effective possession football because they DON'T let the ball do the work but instead bust a gut and cover huge distances during the course of a match. For example the 2009 Champions League Final which Barcelona won Xavi covered a distance of 11.95km; in comparison the furthest distance covered by a Man Utd player was 11.16km by Ryan Giggs. And yet Barcelona had 69% of overall possession and Xavi made 148 passes only misplacing 7. This is the main difference between Arsenal (non effective) and Barcelona (effective).
People also often say the only reason Barcelona are so quick to regain possession is because of the myth as described above that not having the ball is more exhausting. This again is wrong. Barcelona press intensely when without the ball because their offside trap is vulnerable. If the oppostion has a speedster like a Walcott then he can break the trap with his pace. However, by intense pressing it reduces the accuracy of the opponents passing and therefore reduces the likelihood of a well weighted throughball. On the rare occasions when a throughball does break the trap then Barcelona have their sweeper keeper to reach the ball first. In fact Valdes made 18 passes in the 2009 final which was two more than Man Utd striker Hernandez!
Barcelona also employ the the concept of compactness as pioneered by former Milan coach Arrigo Sacchi; ensuring the front line and back line of the team is no more than x metres apart. This reduces the space for the oppostion when they have the ball and therefore also aids Barcelona's pursuit of the ball back.
The debate over whether Guardiola is overrated is similar to that of Rinus Michels at Ajax; both laid the foundations for success and enjoyed success but their successors continued this success. However, Michels proved he wasn't overrated by also enjoying success at Barcelona. Just like Michels lured Cruyff over could we see Guardiola lure Messi over to Man City?
And if Mourinho returns to the Premier League next season then what a contest!