The Official Arsenal - 12 x FA Cup Winners - Thread [Vol 3]

[Cheib]

Alfahorn said:

melvster said:

Lets see what happens, it wouldn't surprise me if we won fk all this season and finished outside the top 5. There is no hunger or desire from Arsenal when they play; average at best. Granted Wigan knocked out City and they are the holders but it doesn't matter; the fact is they are a league below Arsenal and this game should have been a walkover. The Arsenal of 10 years ago would have absolutely humiliated the Wigan team today.

I think we will win the cup now, however in really it is papering over the cracks. At the very least the monkey would be off our backs.

But you don't want the monkey gone do you.....what you want is a fking 1000lb Gorilla.

[Alfahorn]

Cheib said:

But you don't want the monkey gone do you.....what you want is a fking 1000lb Gorilla.

Of course I want the agony to end, desperately want it to end. However, based on his overall performance and results against the other big clubs in the league this season we need change, I just can't understand why people don't see that, how long does Wenger need to be given before people realise we need to move on.?

I can't see what is going to change by giving Wenger more time. He has completely lost his edge, we're a shaddow of the Arsenal under Wenger between 1996 - 2006.

[celicawrc]

melvster said:

MrMagoo said:

Get a grip for fk sake, we've beaten Liverpool, Everton, Spurs and now the reigning champions to get to the final.

I was over the moon when Cazorla put that penalty away, why wouldn't the players?

Agreed, but you need to also factor in the league performances.... particularly the following.......

City - lost 6-3
Liverpool - Lost 5-1
Everton - Lost 3-0
United - Lost 1-0

Big deal we beat Wigan in the semi final of the FA Cup by the skin of our teeth. This should have been a 2-0 win and the game killed off after 70 mins.

You forgot Chelsea - Lost 6-0.

Based on the size of our club and the money it generates, that was another shocking performance. Our attacking options upfront are just comical! Sanogo, Giroud, Podolski....all not good enough for the first team. Wenger's unwillingness to buy a striker in January has cost us BIG again!

[TwigtheWonderkid]

Does my head in, pundits saying penalty shoot outs are a lottery. They're the exact opposite, a 100% test of nerve and skill. Where's the luck in a penalty shoot out? How is it a lottery ( a lottery being a game of pure chance). The team with the best players wins the majority of penalty shoot outs. As you lot showed today.

[Cheib]

Alfahorn said:

We're a shaddow of the Arsenal under Wenger between 1996 - 2006.

The difference is you think he is 100% responsible for that...I don't. A massive, massive part of the issues at the club are the board's making...and not just the financial issues. We have a totally and utterly disfunctional shareholder/ownership structure which has been a complete and utter mind fk...which meant in the years when an extra £20 or £30mil invested by the owners jcould have meant those magical "one or two players" could have been signed just couldn't happen.

Maybe it's not a coincidence with your timeline that Kronke became a shareholder in 2007 and majority shareholder in 2011.

[aeropilot]

Just back from Wembley....

That was fking painful.....

[Alfahorn]

Cheib said:

The difference is you think he is 100% responsible for that...I don't. A massive, massive part of the issues at the club are the board's making...and not just the financial issues. We have a totally and utterly disfunctional shareholder/ownership structure which has been a complete and utter mind fk...which meant in the years when an extra £20 or £30mil invested by the owners jcould have meant those magical "one or two players" could have been signed just couldn't happen.

Maybe it's not a coincidence with your timeline that Kronke became a shareholder in 2007 and majority shareholder in 2011.

You seem to be happy to exonerate Wenger regardless of how gutless, disorganised and pathetic some of the performances have been.

Unfortunately only one of us appears to be able to separate the obvious issues in the boardroom with the performances on the pitch and that of the manager, Regardless of the extra investment we should have done better in recent years, you don't seem to want to acknowledge that?

I will reiterate. Wenger was absolutely fantastic for at least the first 10 years of his reign. Unfortunately, a man who was once a visionary has stood still while the game moves on and developed around him. This has been to the detriment of our team, the performances, tactics and results in the big games this year underline that.

Unfortunately, again you continue to apologise for the indefensible. It really is quite extraordinary.

I hope and pray we lift the FA Cup on the 17th May, we all can celebrate finally winning silverware and then in the summer Wenger does the right thing and retires. That way we all get what we want. A trophy, the manager can leave with dignity and those of us who have completely lost faith in the manager can finally see the club move on.

I'm under no illusion, there is no quick fix. The next manager has a tough act to follow, however it is the right time to move on.

Edited by Alfahorn on Saturday 12th April 22:12

[Cheib]

Alfahorn said:

You seem to be happy to exonerate Wenger regardless of how gutless, disorganised and pathetic some of the performances have been.

Unfortunately only one of us appears to be able to separate the obvious issues in the boardroom with the performances on the pitch and that of the manager, Regardless of the extra investment we should have done better in recent years, you don't seem to want to acknowledge that?

I will reiterate. Wenger was absolutely fantastic for at least the first 10 years of his reign. Unfortunately, a man who was once a visionary has stood still while the game moves on and developed around him. This has been to the detriment of our team, the performances, tactics and results in the big games this year underline that.

Unfortunately, again you continue to apologise for the indefensible. It really is quite extraordinary.

I hope and pray we lift the FA Cup on the 17th May, we all can celebrate finally winning silverware and then in the summer Wenger does the right thing and retires. That way we all get what we want. A trophy, the manager can leave with dignity and those of us who have completely lost faith in the manager can finally see the club move on.

I'm under no illusion, there is no quick fix. The next manager has a tough act to follow, however it is the right time to move on.

Edited by Alfahorn on Saturday 12th April 22:12

You jut said you hoped we lost 10-0 and now you are saying you "hope and pray" we win it ? Just realised how incredible fking stupid that sounded for an "Arsenal fan" I suppose.

Please explain what you mean by "Regardless of the extra investment we should have done better in recent years, you don't seem to want to acknowledge that?"

What "extra" investment ? Until Ozil was bought there hasn't been any.

Look at where we've finished in the Premier League and look at the money that has been lavished on every single team that has finished above us. Sure this year with Liverpool are out-performing but that's the first time since Wenger has been in charge that I can think of a team with a smaller budget finishing above us in the Premier League. Ir certainly hasn't happened consistantly.

[Alfahorn]

Cheib said:

You jut said you hoped we lost 10-0 and now you are saying you "hope and pray" we win it ? Just realised how incredible fking stupid that sounded for an "Arsenal fan" I suppose.

Wrong I didn't say that. I just realised how fking stupid you are though.

Cheib said:

Please explain what you mean by "Regardless of the extra investment we should have done better in recent years, you don't seem to want to acknowledge that?"

What do you not understand about that statement. I've made it abundantly clear performances and tactics haven't been good enough. This is an element you again seem to refuse to acknowledge in your stout defence of the indefensible.

I shall pick out just a few examples for you.

The league cup final against Birmingham. The league cup semi final against Wigan, the performance and result against Bradford City, the defeat at home to Blackburn in the FA Cup last year. The defeats at Manchester United 8-2, City 6-3, Liverpool 5-1, Chelsea 6-0 and United away 1-0.

Need I go on?

Cheib said:

What "extra" investment ? Until Ozil was bought there hasn't been any.

I didn't say there had been, I was referring to the fact that you continually bang the drum that poor Arsene hasn't been able to strengthen the team. I'm making the absolutely 100% correct observation that in spite of this obvious need the team with the resources available should have done more. We certainly shouldn't have gone 9 years without a trophy and that has fk all to do with the boardroom.

Cheib said:

Look at where we've finished in the Premier League and look at the money that has been lavished on every single team that has finished above us. Sure this year with Liverpool are out-performing but that's the first time since Wenger has been in charge that I can think of a team with a smaller budget finishing above us in the Premier League. Ir certainly hasn't happened consistantly.

Agreed, however I don't just measure success based on the league alone. There is no denying the league is our bread and butter, however we have entered 4 competitions every year for the last 9 years, that's 35 out of 36 that we've failed to be successful in.

I work in recruitment. If I met with 35 potential clients in a row and failed to convert any of them, I know what would happen to me. I'd be out of a job, simple as that!

[Cheib]

Alfahorn said:

No, I couldn't care if we won the FA Cup final 10-0 I want him gone, I will never change my mind on that.

19.55

Alfahorn said:

I hope and pray we lift the FA Cup on the 17th May, we all can celebrate finally winning silverware and then in the summer Wenger does the right thing and retires.

Edited by Alfahorn on Saturday 12th April 22:12

22.10

Need I say more. It took you all of two hours to "never change your mind".

[Alfahorn]

Cheib said:

Alfahorn said:

No, I couldn't care if we won the FA Cup final 10-0 I want him gone, I will never change my mind on that.

19.55

Alfahorn said:

I hope and pray we lift the FA Cup on the 17th May, we all can celebrate finally winning silverware and then in the summer Wenger does the right thing and retires.

Edited by Alfahorn on Saturday 12th April 22:12

22.10

Need I say more. It took you all of two hours to "never change your mind".

Oh this is interesting. What I have changed my mind on exactly?

[Cheib]

Alfahorn said:

Cheib said:

Alfahorn said:

No, I couldn't care if we won the FA Cup final 10-0 I want him gone, I will never change my mind on that.

19.55

Alfahorn said:

I hope and pray we lift the FA Cup on the 17th May, we all can celebrate finally winning silverware and then in the summer Wenger does the right thing and retires.

Edited by Alfahorn on Saturday 12th April 22:12

22.10

Need I say more. It took you all of two hours to "never change your mind".

Oh the is interesting. What I have changed my mind on exactly?

You "couldn"t care" if we won the FA Cup at 19.55 and then by 22.10 you "hope and pray" we will win it.

If you don't think that's a change of mine you really do have problems

[GloverMart]

Cheib - Alfa's comments about Wenger don't show that he's changed his mind at all.

The early comment basically says he wants Wenger to go regardless of the FA Cup Final result. The second post says he wants Arsenal to win.

Two different things completely IMO. You're making a connection that isn't there.

[Alfahorn]

Cheib said:

You "couldn"t care" if we won the FA Cup at 19.55 and then by 22.10 you "hope and pray" we will win it.

If you don't think that's a change of mine you really do have problems

You really are a plonker. So out of your depth its untrue.

I was responding to a question on the future of the manager. I want to win the FA Cup but even if the result went 10-0 in our favour it wouldn't convince me to change my view on the manager.

So no, I've not changed my mind. But do keep trying.

Edited by Alfahorn on Saturday 12th April 22:58

[Alfahorn]

GloverMart said:

Cheib - Alfa's comments about Wenger don't show that he's changed his mind at all.

The early comment basically says he wants Wenger to go regardless of the FA Cup Final result. The second post says he wants Arsenal to win.

Two different things completely IMO. You're making a connection that isn't there.

Correct - I'll leave this particular debate at this point.

[Glassman]

Justin Cyder said:

These Wigan players have put Arsenal to 120 minutes of football & a penno shootout...



How st are Arsenal?

Those Wigan players also beat Man City at home, and let's not forget a few more things: it's a semi final AT Wembley where an underdog has the opportunity to claim yet another scalp...

Let's leave who their opposition beat to get there, but yes, we were st.

[Justin Cyder]

Glassman said:

but yes, we were st.

[flasher]

I fully agree with Alfa, as I have done for about 3 years.

We were poor yesterday, but you do have to give Wigan some credit for their defending. Lets also not forget Arsenal beat Liverpool, Spurs and Everton on the way to the final, we havent exactly had easy ties.

Wenger should go after the final, hopefully with a win as his last act , he's a great coach and he's transformed the club over the years, but his time has come. Unlike Fergie he will leave the basis of a good squad that someone who is prepared to spend money can add to, rather than an ageing team like United have.

I'd rather remember Wenger for all the good he's done.

[Booey]

It wasn't pretty, but we're through to the final. Some of you must be devastated.

[Alfahorn]

Booey said:

It wasn't pretty, but we're through to the final. Some of you must be devastated.

Yes, the Spurs fans mainly.