The Official Arsenal - 12 x FA Cup Winners - Thread [Vol 3]
Discussion
Lost soul said:
Alfahorn said:
The apologists told us we had to judge Wenger after the transfer window.
I have in the past defended AW and disagreed with you , but it is starting to look like You have been right all along 
bobo said:
Cheib said:
So is BFG. Both have the look of World Cup hangovers.
a month holiday isnt enough for a pro footballer? seems like all the other pro germans in the other teams seem fine.its called motivation and leadership, something our v expensive french dictator / manager has none of.
Cheib said:
it's the fact they haven't had a full pre-season to get match fit rather than playing competitive football to get fit....we've seen it with the likes of Wilshere in the past. Best thing they could do with Ozil is send him away for two or three weeks to get fit. We don't have that luxury with BFG clearly....
So why is the manager selecting them ? All points to AW BS Furthermore it was a collective problem that they couldnt pass a ball or keep it
MrMagoo said:
We are slowly killing Ozils career. If I was him I'd jump ship before it's too late. Spend over 40 million on one of the very best players in the world and play him where he's least effective. Absolute madness. In fact I'd go on strike until I get played in the no.10 position. He must be fuming.
I've seen reported rumours today that there has been a come and get me in January 'message' go out to Bayern Munich.Wouldn't surprise me, and I wouldn't blame him either.
The Evening Standard tonight did a nice full two page hatchet job on Wenger and the teams performance last night.
Cheib said:
bobo said:
Cheib said:
So is BFG. Both have the look of World Cup hangovers.
a month holiday isnt enough for a pro footballer? seems like all the other pro germans in the other teams seem fine.its called motivation and leadership, something our v expensive french dictator / manager has none of.
king clue, this is not the same Manager who did amazing work between 1996 - 2004.We have exactly the same deficiencies as last season, they were exposed last night and believe me we WILL take an absolute hiding somewhere along the line this season. If Dortmund had finished better we would be talking about one of the most humiliating nights in the clubs history today.
Alfahorn said:
Some of this is down to the players but most of it the Manager. He hasn't got a fking clue, this is not the same Manager who did amazing work between 1996 - 2004.
I'd disagree with that. I think that's precisely the problem, it is the same manager who did amazing work between 1996-2004.....king clue, this is not the same Manager who did amazing work between 1996 - 2004.BUT, football coaching has moved on in the 10 years since, and he hasn't.
Glassman said:
I'm wondering what objectives/targets are set each year.
Top 4, anything else a bonus? That's certainly what it looks like. If Arsenal really had the ambition to challenge for serious honours then we wouldn't be scraping around trying to get a fit defence and Welbeck wouldn't be leading the line. Arteta would have been shown the door as it's been evident for some time he's well past it and we'd have a top class DM as a replacement.
Instead we have a couple of world class players in Ozil and Alexis. Surrounded by exciting prospects. I don't think for one minute we'll put up a title fight and if we get out of this group we'd have done well, but we all know we'll be knocked out by a Bayern or Barca. Probably heavily.
MrMagoo said:
Glassman said:
I'm wondering what objectives/targets are set each year.
Top 4, anything else a bonus? That's certainly what it looks like. If Arsenal really had the ambition to challenge for serious honours then we wouldn't be scraping around trying to get a fit defence and Welbeck wouldn't be leading the line. Arteta would have been shown the door as it's been evident for some time he's well past it and we'd have a top class DM as a replacement.
Instead we have a couple of world class players in Ozil and Alexis. Surrounded by exciting prospects. I don't think for one minute we'll put up a title fight and if we get out of this group we'd have done well, but we all know we'll be knocked out by a Bayern or Barca. Probably heavily.
aeropilot said:
Alfahorn said:
Some of this is down to the players but most of it the Manager. He hasn't got a fking clue, this is not the same Manager who did amazing work between 1996 - 2004.
I'd disagree with that. I think that's precisely the problem, it is the same manager who did amazing work between 1996-2004.....king clue, this is not the same Manager who did amazing work between 1996 - 2004.BUT, football coaching has moved on in the 10 years since, and he hasn't.
Like the previous season with strikers, this season he's been found out with defensive options. Everyone can see it. He defiantly plods on in his own way.
The team lacks in everything he espouses.
A reprieve of a fuller condemnation would be getting a good result against say, Totnum (just before getting spanked by Chavski). That's pretty much what we are. Above the mid table scrappers, but bottom of the top four.
The team lacks in everything he espouses.
A reprieve of a fuller condemnation would be getting a good result against say, Totnum (just before getting spanked by Chavski). That's pretty much what we are. Above the mid table scrappers, but bottom of the top four.
aeropilot said:
Alfahorn said:
Some of this is down to the players but most of it the Manager. He hasn't got a fking clue, this is not the same Manager who did amazing work between 1996 - 2004.
I'd disagree with that. I think that's precisely the problem, it is the same manager who did amazing work between 1996-2004.....king clue, this is not the same Manager who did amazing work between 1996 - 2004.BUT, football coaching has moved on in the 10 years since, and he hasn't.
Now Arteta's leg are gone his tracking of the runner from mf has gone below the horizon, at least he's not Denilson who was just crap when fit!
Alfahorn said:
I don't agree. I think when he came here he was decisive, identified accurately where the team needed to improve and went and did it. The signings of Vieira, Petit, Overmars and Anelka are examples of this. The problem is he now dithers, when he does make his mind up to do something is too late. For example; I'm very happy we signed Welbeck I think given some patience he'll be great, however in reality we should have gone and signed Remy months ago and when he did make an enquiry the player had all but signed for Chelsea.
The transfer "strategy" is fking weird. When they know they have to sign someone they go out and do it early...Giroud and Podolski when they knew RVP was leaving and then this summer Chambers, Debuchy, Alexis were signed early doors. We then have deafening silence and the last minute signings of Ozil and Welbeck in the trolley dash.
The constant excuse we have is that prices are over inflated blah blah blah and that you have to leave it to the last minute to get "bargains"....what we can actually see is that it's perfectly possible to bring in reasonably priced players early doors (Alexis and Debuchy were certainly reasonably priced) and that yes you can get someone maybe a bit cheap like Welbeck if you leave it late but Ozil was by no means a bargain at £42mil.
We've never replaced Dein with his network and relationships built up over many years...they chose to replace him with someone with absolutely no network in Europe i.e. Gazidis who was from the MLS and our transfer "fixer" Dick Law who is also based in the US. As anyone that knows anything about business you can be as good as you like but if you have 20 year relationships with people you can get stuff done that others can't.
Is that Wenger's or Gazidis's fault ? Personally I think it's the f
king morons that were running the club at the time. They all thought the sun shone out of Wenger's arse and I don't think realised how important Dein was when they fked him out of the door. Wenger's biggest weakness is that he is clearly incredibly stubborn....it's a classic example of greatest strength is your greatest weakness...without anyone to challenge him we basically had one man running the club. Dein was the guy that pushed him to get the deals done. It's absolutely no coincidence that Dein left in 2007 IMHO. We're still paying the price of that useless
Hill-Wood. There has been a lot of talk on the radio in recent days, more so since the end of the transfer window. Comments today pretty much summed up the feeling amongst the majority (if not all) is that we are serial underachievers (surprise, surprise) and that consistently hitting qualifying for the ECL (albeit by the skin of our teeth) is good for the balance sheets, but not enough for the fans.
It's just tedious now.
It's just tedious now.
I really don't understand the thought process behind the defence....yes Chambers looked better than anyone dared hope but we're still chronically short.
The only thing i can think of vis a vis the midfield is that Wenger decided that 4-1-4-1 was the way ahead which would allow him to play Arteta, Wilshere and Ramsey in the same side and thus have his two best central midfielders on the pitch at the same time...that way he maybe thought that you can get away with Arteta rather than a new more physical more destructive DM. I suppose with Ozil he thought he played wide in 4-1-4-1 in the World Cup and he can do it for Arsenal. The trouble is that Germany have players like Lahm and Schweinsteiger so you can afford to have some a bit lazy playing out wide.
It's clearly not fking working and Wenger has got made to make the very obvious decision to drop Ramsey who looks out of from and go 4-2-3-1 and play Ozil in the middle of the park. All last season (bar the half dozen game Theo played) we were crying out for mobile and fast players to be playing up front to latch on to those Ozil passes delivered from the No 10 position.
The only thing i can think of vis a vis the midfield is that Wenger decided that 4-1-4-1 was the way ahead which would allow him to play Arteta, Wilshere and Ramsey in the same side and thus have his two best central midfielders on the pitch at the same time...that way he maybe thought that you can get away with Arteta rather than a new more physical more destructive DM. I suppose with Ozil he thought he played wide in 4-1-4-1 in the World Cup and he can do it for Arsenal. The trouble is that Germany have players like Lahm and Schweinsteiger so you can afford to have some a bit lazy playing out wide.
It's clearly not f
king working and Wenger has got made to make the very obvious decision to drop Ramsey who looks out of from and go 4-2-3-1 and play Ozil in the middle of the park. All last season (bar the half dozen game Theo played) we were crying out for mobile and fast players to be playing up front to latch on to those Ozil passes delivered from the No 10 position.Cheib said:
I really don't understand the thought process behind the defence....yes Chambers looked better than anyone dared hope but we're still chronically short.
The only thing i can think of vis a vis the midfield is that Wenger decided that 4-1-4-1 was the way ahead which would allow him to play Arteta, Wilshere and Ramsey in the same side and thus have his two best central midfielders on the pitch at the same time...that way he maybe thought that you can get away with Arteta rather than a new more physical more destructive DM. I suppose with Ozil he thought he played wide in 4-1-4-1 in the World Cup and he can do it for Arsenal. The trouble is that Germany have players like Lahm and Schweinsteiger so you can afford to have some a bit lazy playing out wide.
It's clearly not fking working and Wenger has got made to make the very obvious decision to drop Ramsey who looks out of from and go 4-2-3-1 and play Ozil in the middle of the park. All last season (bar the half dozen game Theo played) we were crying out for mobile and fast players to be playing up front to latch on to those Ozil passes delivered from the No 10 position.
I favor a 4-1-2-1-2 formation.The only thing i can think of vis a vis the midfield is that Wenger decided that 4-1-4-1 was the way ahead which would allow him to play Arteta, Wilshere and Ramsey in the same side and thus have his two best central midfielders on the pitch at the same time...that way he maybe thought that you can get away with Arteta rather than a new more physical more destructive DM. I suppose with Ozil he thought he played wide in 4-1-4-1 in the World Cup and he can do it for Arsenal. The trouble is that Germany have players like Lahm and Schweinsteiger so you can afford to have some a bit lazy playing out wide.
It's clearly not f
king working and Wenger has got made to make the very obvious decision to drop Ramsey who looks out of from and go 4-2-3-1 and play Ozil in the middle of the park. All last season (bar the half dozen game Theo played) we were crying out for mobile and fast players to be playing up front to latch on to those Ozil passes delivered from the No 10 position.I'd have Flamini in front of the back four, Ramsey & Wilshere in the middle with Ozil having a bit more freedom to play behind Welbeck & Alexis.
Personally, I don't think Ozil will work as part of a 3, I think he would want more space and freedom by playing in the hole.
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