The Official England Thread-The Team We All Support [Vol 2]
Discussion
nicanary said:
Ten minutes to play, and inspiration is needed. Roy thinks hard and comes up with a masterstroke - Sturridge and Lallana.
I give up.
PS we've just scored. Quite honestly Portugal deserve a draw.
How so? Hart may as well have sat on the bench - did he touch the ball at all all night? Not sure how a team that didn't have one meaningful attack all night deserves a draw but hey ho, we scored, we won and never once looked even remotely like losing. If it were any other team that did that we'd all be complaining about how they can win ugly when they're not playing well and why can't we do that.I give up.
PS we've just scored. Quite honestly Portugal deserve a draw.
Turquoise said:
nicanary said:
Ten minutes to play, and inspiration is needed. Roy thinks hard and comes up with a masterstroke - Sturridge and Lallana.
I give up.
An attacking midfielder and perhaps our most skilful striker. I give up.
Who would you have brought on instead?
Leroy902 said:
Turquoise said:
nicanary said:
Ten minutes to play, and inspiration is needed. Roy thinks hard and comes up with a masterstroke - Sturridge and Lallana.
I give up.
An attacking midfielder and perhaps our most skilful striker. I give up.
Who would you have brought on instead?
There was a spark after the changes but that's also because he shortly changed the formation as well which suddenly gave us more width.
Assuming all are fit.
Edited by Mothersruin on Friday 3rd June 01:55
Seems to me like Woy has made a wod for his own back picking Wooney as captain and trying to fit him in somewhere. Alli should be playing in behind two of Vardy/Sturridge/Kane up front. The ridiculous sight of Wayne puffing around up front with Vardy and Kane tracking fullbacks bombing on is an enduring image of foolhardiness.
Wooney should be in Dubai.
Wales have their tactics much more sorted.
Hoof it to Gareth, mun. Job done.
Wooney should be in Dubai.
Wales have their tactics much more sorted.
Hoof it to Gareth, mun. Job done.
I'll admit some of the brouhaha of the last week had imparted a streak of optimism in my mind that the new England team would be brimming with youthful confidence...keen to show what they can do...a new dawn...etc
So I tuned in for the second half last night. Blimey. It's deja-vu all over again.
Luckily Peaky Blinders was on so it wasn't a (totally)wasted evening. And I saw the goal...
So I tuned in for the second half last night. Blimey. It's deja-vu all over again.
Luckily Peaky Blinders was on so it wasn't a (totally)wasted evening. And I saw the goal...
hornetrider said:
Seems to me like Woy has made a wod for his own back picking Wooney as captain and trying to fit him in somewhere. Alli should be playing in behind two of Vardy/Sturridge/Kane up front. The ridiculous sight of Wayne puffing around up front with Vardy and Kane tracking fullbacks bombing on is an enduring image of foolhardiness.
Wooney should be in Dubai.
Wales have their tactics much more sorted.
Hoof it to Gareth, mun. Job done.
I think it's pathetic that a man with a back room staff that are paid many millions to know this sWooney should be in Dubai.
Wales have their tactics much more sorted.
Hoof it to Gareth, mun. Job done.
t can make such a blindingly stupid mistake, but if you're going to force fit Rooney into the team then do it so it disrupts the least of everyone else. Stick him up top with Kane and play everyone else in normal positions (sorry Vardy, you'll have to be an impact sub).
hornetrider said:
Seems to me like Woy has made a wod for his own back picking Wooney as captain and trying to fit him in somewhere. Alli should be playing in behind two of Vardy/Sturridge/Kane up front. The ridiculous sight of Wayne puffing around up front with Vardy and Kane tracking fullbacks bombing on is an enduring image of foolhardiness.
Wooney should be in Dubai.
Indeed, but we all knew it would be thus. Short of Shrek being on crutches or something (even then Woy would have probably still had him in the squad!) it was always going to be square pegs in round holes to accommodate him.Wooney should be in Dubai.
One of the English Bournemouth players should have stood up for his country and taken Shrek out for a month or so in that last match to ensure his country might have had a chance in the Euro's despite being shackled by an inept manager.....
aeropilot said:
hornetrider said:
Seems to me like Woy has made a wod for his own back picking Wooney as captain and trying to fit him in somewhere. Alli should be playing in behind two of Vardy/Sturridge/Kane up front. The ridiculous sight of Wayne puffing around up front with Vardy and Kane tracking fullbacks bombing on is an enduring image of foolhardiness.
Wooney should be in Dubai.
Indeed, but we all knew it would be thus. Short of Shrek being on crutches or something (even then Woy would have probably still had him in the squad!) it was always going to be square pegs in round holes to accommodate him.Wooney should be in Dubai.
One of the English Bournemouth players should have stood up for his country and taken Shrek out for a month or so in that last match to ensure his country might have had a chance in the Euro's despite being shackled by an inept manager.....
Then he decides that rather then leave the 2 strikers up top to do the damage in the final third they need to track back with the full backs. Bizarre.
All of the midfielders play through the middle for their clubs. You could say Sterling, Lalana play out wide but they are also narrow.
I think there was a spell in the second half when we shifted the ball left to right, right to left for a good 5mins, and no-one had the brains to get wide and put a cross in, or try and play a quick 1-2 and beat a man. Portugal had a 37 year old centre half who must of had the easiest 90mins he will ever have.
Please don't accuse me of trolling but I saw the game differently.
It was the last match before the Euros, players aren't going to give 100%, it's madness to do that. Portugal are ranked ABOVE England I believe so if we are moaning AT WINNING THE GAME how do they feel?
When a team goes down to ten men, they park the bus and do all they can not to concede, if you look at the stats teams with 10 men aren't beaten often or easily, they become very difficult to break down.
Yesterday people were bemoaning leaving Danny Drinkwater at home, hardly a game changer.
Wilshere did well when he came on and Sterling did too.
For me, we go to France on the back of some fantastic results (not performances) and I'm looking forward to the Euros, England will progress and be a key team.
It was the last match before the Euros, players aren't going to give 100%, it's madness to do that. Portugal are ranked ABOVE England I believe so if we are moaning AT WINNING THE GAME how do they feel?
When a team goes down to ten men, they park the bus and do all they can not to concede, if you look at the stats teams with 10 men aren't beaten often or easily, they become very difficult to break down.
Yesterday people were bemoaning leaving Danny Drinkwater at home, hardly a game changer.
Wilshere did well when he came on and Sterling did too.
For me, we go to France on the back of some fantastic results (not performances) and I'm looking forward to the Euros, England will progress and be a key team.
Thankyou4calling said:
Please don't accuse me of trolling but I saw the game differently.
It was the last match before the Euros, players aren't going to give 100%, it's madness to do that. Portugal are ranked ABOVE England I believe so if we are moaning AT WINNING THE GAME how do they feel?
When a team goes down to ten men, they park the bus and do all they can not to concede, if you look at the stats teams with 10 men aren't beaten often or easily, they become very difficult to break down.
Yesterday people were bemoaning leaving Danny Drinkwater at home, hardly a game changer.
Wilshere did well when he came on and Sterling did too.
For me, we go to France on the back of some fantastic results (not performances) and I'm looking forward to the Euros, England will progress and be a key team.
Fair enough opinion, but what do you think the team is and the formation for our first game?It was the last match before the Euros, players aren't going to give 100%, it's madness to do that. Portugal are ranked ABOVE England I believe so if we are moaning AT WINNING THE GAME how do they feel?
When a team goes down to ten men, they park the bus and do all they can not to concede, if you look at the stats teams with 10 men aren't beaten often or easily, they become very difficult to break down.
Yesterday people were bemoaning leaving Danny Drinkwater at home, hardly a game changer.
Wilshere did well when he came on and Sterling did too.
For me, we go to France on the back of some fantastic results (not performances) and I'm looking forward to the Euros, England will progress and be a key team.
London424 said:
Fair enough opinion, but what do you think the team is and the formation for our first game?
to be honest, i think far too much is made of tactics and formations. Football isn't a sport like say American football where you have "Plays" and special teams. One thing doesn't necessarily lead to an assured outcome.
I think tactics and formations are talked about a lot by say the presenters on Talksport as they have so much airtime to fill they have to say something and that leads to armchair experts (myself included) focusing on it too.
I was at Wembley last night, up in the gods and it's a very interesting place to watch a match. If you weren't told before you literally wouldn't have known who was a striker and who was a defender.
When England are defending a corner, all 11 players are in there area defending, no one is hanging around the centre circle.
When they are attacking all players are attacking hence Smalling a central defender scores from a "Strikers" position.
Modern footballers don't hang around the six yard box, blimey even the goal keeper is coming 20 or 30 yards out of the area for large parts of the game.
So all this talk about diamond, 442, 4321, 433 is coming much more from us and commentators than the actual football managers who seem to field what they've done for years and that is a left back, a right back, two centre halves, 4 midfielders and two strikers and a goalie.
Obviously there is a formation and tactics but the players are, it seems to me a lot more fluid and interchangeable.
A lot of commentators fixate on formations as if they are the key to success, I disagree and again I'm not looking to be argumentative for the sake of it.
On the one hand I agree in that getting the right 11 players is important, but to think formations don't matter is an absolute nonsense.
Players are very well drilled in where they should be when they do/don't have the ball. Where they should be when they defend/attack set pieces. You say England were all back defending corners, you realise that isn't the players choice? That is the manager telling them before the game that everyone comes back, who stands where (zonal) or which man you pick up (man-to-man).
It really isn't about filling air time, as most of the people talking are ex-pros so know exactly what is important or not.
I can only assume you don't know about, played much or watch much football with those sorts of comments.
Players are very well drilled in where they should be when they do/don't have the ball. Where they should be when they defend/attack set pieces. You say England were all back defending corners, you realise that isn't the players choice? That is the manager telling them before the game that everyone comes back, who stands where (zonal) or which man you pick up (man-to-man).
It really isn't about filling air time, as most of the people talking are ex-pros so know exactly what is important or not.
I can only assume you don't know about, played much or watch much football with those sorts of comments.
London424 said:
On the one hand I agree in that getting the right 11 players is important, but to think formations don't matter is an absolute nonsense.
Players are very well drilled in where they should be when they do/don't have the ball. Where they should be when they defend/attack set pieces. You say England were all back defending corners, you realise that isn't the players choice? That is the manager telling them before the game that everyone comes back, who stands where (zonal) or which man you pick up (man-to-man).
It really isn't about filling air time, as most of the people talking are ex-pros so know exactly what is important or not.
I can only assume you don't know about, played much or watch much football with those sorts of comments.
You are making a VERY incorrect assumption there as to whether I've played much football. But anyhow.....Players are very well drilled in where they should be when they do/don't have the ball. Where they should be when they defend/attack set pieces. You say England were all back defending corners, you realise that isn't the players choice? That is the manager telling them before the game that everyone comes back, who stands where (zonal) or which man you pick up (man-to-man).
It really isn't about filling air time, as most of the people talking are ex-pros so know exactly what is important or not.
I can only assume you don't know about, played much or watch much football with those sorts of comments.
I'm not saying formations don't matter, of course they do but far too much importance is placed on them largely by football pundits.
As for filling airtime, let me deal with that. We now have 24 hour sports talk channels, 10 years ago they didn't exist, our main sports channel is primarily about football and there are others too. 24 hours a day they HAVE to find something to talk about.
Often it is refereeing decisions, now, referees are better than they have ever been, fitter, more professional and better versed in the laws of the game and yet you'd think the opposite as EVERY DECISION is talked about and scrutinised by people who HAVE to find something to say, if they don't they are out of a job! it's much the same with formations, tactics etc.
These things are massively over analysed and hence appear crucial almost as if you can't win a match nowadays without the right formation.
Well you can and teams prove it.
That's my take on the matter and I know others will agree and disagree.
Thankyou4calling said:
to be honest, i think far too much is made of tactics and formations. Football isn't a sport like say American football where you have "Plays" and special teams.
One thing doesn't necessarily lead to an assured outcome.
I think tactics and formations are talked about a lot by say the presenters on Talksport as they have so much airtime to fill they have to say something and that leads to armchair experts (myself included) focusing on it too.
I was at Wembley last night, up in the gods and it's a very interesting place to watch a match. If you weren't told before you literally wouldn't have known who was a striker and who was a defender.
When England are defending a corner, all 11 players are in there area defending, no one is hanging around the centre circle.
When they are attacking all players are attacking hence Smalling a central defender scores from a "Strikers" position.
Modern footballers don't hang around the six yard box, blimey even the goal keeper is coming 20 or 30 yards out of the area for large parts of the game.
So all this talk about diamond, 442, 4321, 433 is coming much more from us and commentators than the actual football managers who seem to field what they've done for years and that is a left back, a right back, two centre halves, 4 midfielders and two strikers and a goalie.
Obviously there is a formation and tactics but the players are, it seems to me a lot more fluid and interchangeable.
A lot of commentators fixate on formations as if they are the key to success, I disagree and again I'm not looking to be argumentative for the sake of it.
Quite agree. I've always said this. Once the whistle blows, everybody more or less scatters into space appropriate for where the ball and/or opposition is at any given moment.One thing doesn't necessarily lead to an assured outcome.
I think tactics and formations are talked about a lot by say the presenters on Talksport as they have so much airtime to fill they have to say something and that leads to armchair experts (myself included) focusing on it too.
I was at Wembley last night, up in the gods and it's a very interesting place to watch a match. If you weren't told before you literally wouldn't have known who was a striker and who was a defender.
When England are defending a corner, all 11 players are in there area defending, no one is hanging around the centre circle.
When they are attacking all players are attacking hence Smalling a central defender scores from a "Strikers" position.
Modern footballers don't hang around the six yard box, blimey even the goal keeper is coming 20 or 30 yards out of the area for large parts of the game.
So all this talk about diamond, 442, 4321, 433 is coming much more from us and commentators than the actual football managers who seem to field what they've done for years and that is a left back, a right back, two centre halves, 4 midfielders and two strikers and a goalie.
Obviously there is a formation and tactics but the players are, it seems to me a lot more fluid and interchangeable.
A lot of commentators fixate on formations as if they are the key to success, I disagree and again I'm not looking to be argumentative for the sake of it.
I agree to a point but you need players to play to a formation that allow others to know what they are doing. Particularly when defending, and England at championships often are without the ball for long periods. We will need to be patient.
Last night when defending Kane/Vardy would drift left and right, Rooney then huffed and puffed up the middle to press the centre backs in advance of the two forwards. We've suddenly become 4-3-3. Many times the ball was then fed to the Portuguese deep central midfield by-passing Rooney who had just left that area, this then drags our midfield apart. The team had just given up 30 yards of space and now have 3 men in front of the ball and were on the back foot. Not a great way to play IMHO.
Going forward sure, total football, jumpers for goal posts and all that.
Last night when defending Kane/Vardy would drift left and right, Rooney then huffed and puffed up the middle to press the centre backs in advance of the two forwards. We've suddenly become 4-3-3. Many times the ball was then fed to the Portuguese deep central midfield by-passing Rooney who had just left that area, this then drags our midfield apart. The team had just given up 30 yards of space and now have 3 men in front of the ball and were on the back foot. Not a great way to play IMHO.
Going forward sure, total football, jumpers for goal posts and all that.
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