The Official England Thread-The Team We All Support [Vol 2]
Discussion
First half thoughts...
Kane, Alli - good
Vardy - hard working but being played out of position
Sterling - book your June holidays, you shouldn't be going.
Wilshere - okay but not doing enough to warrant a starting place.
Defence - wobbly
The England band - four or five songs and that's it. With luck, the French authorities will declare their instruments a security risk and ban them from the stadium.
First half - 5/10, must do better.
Kane, Alli - good
Vardy - hard working but being played out of position
Sterling - book your June holidays, you shouldn't be going.
Wilshere - okay but not doing enough to warrant a starting place.
Defence - wobbly
The England band - four or five songs and that's it. With luck, the French authorities will declare their instruments a security risk and ban them from the stadium.
First half - 5/10, must do better.
Okay, some more thoughts now the game has finished.
Hart looks like a goalkeeper that knows he is guaranteed a start unless he's injured. Great save near the end but partly at fault for the goal and looks a little lacklustre at times with his clearances.
Walker/Rose - not 100% on Walker but there's not much in it between him and Clyne. His partnership with Dier just in front gets him a spot for me. Rose always looks prone to a daft tackle but Baines and Gibbs aren't there and Bertrand's not as good.
Cahill and Stones looked reasonable today. Think Smalling will get the nod though in place of Stones despite his general ordinariness in recent weeks. Cahill's not had a good season either with Chelsea so these two are the best of a bad bunch.
Dier is good, very good. Efficient, clever and hard working in an unfussy way and a threat from set pieces. Does his job well and MOST IMPORTANTLY, IS A SPECIALIST CDM RATHER THAN SOMEONE SHOEHORNED IN THERE ON NAME. (capitals there on purpose)
Wilshere - played about 3-4 hours of football all season. Shouldn't go to the Euros, others have much better claims IMO. Looked okay in snatches today but again, temperament is a question mark.
Alli - good though I think he needs to calm down a bit. Slight nasty side to him at times which could be punished by an unforgiving foreign referee but certainly a starter for me.
Sterling - don't take him Roy!!! With only twenty outfield players, seven of which will be defenders, you need every player coming into the tournament on a confidence high, in form and firing. Sterling has had a miserable season, isn't getting any better and one other in particular should be ahead of him (Townsend).
Kane - took his goal well even if he was offside. Too precise with his penalty, made sure the keeper got nowhere near it though. Has to start.
Vardy - fantastic once he was switched to his proper position. What is it with England over the years.... determined to shoehorn in players who are in form and then wonder why they don't produce when playing in a different position?
Sub - Drinkwater came on and linked up well with Vardy as you'd expect. Henderson did okay for another player woefully under match fit.
Kane and Vardy have to start up top for England. They both deserve it... can play together, linked up well with each other and both scored. They have both had tremendous seasons and should have earned a place on merit rather than name. Drinkwater deserves to be on the plane too; if Hodgson doesn't take him, it will be a kick in the teeth to every young English player. "Don't bother playing well, son, because we are going to choose another player who hasn't played much but looked good a year or two ago."
My starting line up for the Russia game? Not entirely happy with it but I'd go...
Hart
Walker - Cahill - Smalling - Rose
Dier
Rooney - Alli - Lallana
Vardy - Kane
Not entirely sure on Lallana but he works hard and can score a goal. Townsend is in my thoughts as a true, natural winger but I can't fit Dier and Drinkwater in without going 4-2-3-1 and that means either Vardy or Kane out of position.
Ah well, there's my thoughts.
Hart looks like a goalkeeper that knows he is guaranteed a start unless he's injured. Great save near the end but partly at fault for the goal and looks a little lacklustre at times with his clearances.
Walker/Rose - not 100% on Walker but there's not much in it between him and Clyne. His partnership with Dier just in front gets him a spot for me. Rose always looks prone to a daft tackle but Baines and Gibbs aren't there and Bertrand's not as good.
Cahill and Stones looked reasonable today. Think Smalling will get the nod though in place of Stones despite his general ordinariness in recent weeks. Cahill's not had a good season either with Chelsea so these two are the best of a bad bunch.
Dier is good, very good. Efficient, clever and hard working in an unfussy way and a threat from set pieces. Does his job well and MOST IMPORTANTLY, IS A SPECIALIST CDM RATHER THAN SOMEONE SHOEHORNED IN THERE ON NAME. (capitals there on purpose)
Wilshere - played about 3-4 hours of football all season. Shouldn't go to the Euros, others have much better claims IMO. Looked okay in snatches today but again, temperament is a question mark.
Alli - good though I think he needs to calm down a bit. Slight nasty side to him at times which could be punished by an unforgiving foreign referee but certainly a starter for me.
Sterling - don't take him Roy!!! With only twenty outfield players, seven of which will be defenders, you need every player coming into the tournament on a confidence high, in form and firing. Sterling has had a miserable season, isn't getting any better and one other in particular should be ahead of him (Townsend).
Kane - took his goal well even if he was offside. Too precise with his penalty, made sure the keeper got nowhere near it though. Has to start.
Vardy - fantastic once he was switched to his proper position. What is it with England over the years.... determined to shoehorn in players who are in form and then wonder why they don't produce when playing in a different position?
Sub - Drinkwater came on and linked up well with Vardy as you'd expect. Henderson did okay for another player woefully under match fit.
Kane and Vardy have to start up top for England. They both deserve it... can play together, linked up well with each other and both scored. They have both had tremendous seasons and should have earned a place on merit rather than name. Drinkwater deserves to be on the plane too; if Hodgson doesn't take him, it will be a kick in the teeth to every young English player. "Don't bother playing well, son, because we are going to choose another player who hasn't played much but looked good a year or two ago."
My starting line up for the Russia game? Not entirely happy with it but I'd go...
Hart
Walker - Cahill - Smalling - Rose
Dier
Rooney - Alli - Lallana
Vardy - Kane
Not entirely sure on Lallana but he works hard and can score a goal. Townsend is in my thoughts as a true, natural winger but I can't fit Dier and Drinkwater in without going 4-2-3-1 and that means either Vardy or Kane out of position.
Ah well, there's my thoughts.
RichB said:
GloverMart said:
"Don't bother playing well, son, because we are going to choose another player who hasn't played much but looked good a year or two ago."
Sadly, that's already the case despite Hodgson proclaiming he was going to pick players on form.uk66fastback said:
Are you saying it'll be a toss up between Wheelchair and Drinkwater for a spot on the plane or is the Gooner in no matter what?
Cos Woy likes him ...
I think that unless Wheelchair is injured in friendlies between now and May 31st, Danny may as well get on down Thomas Cook and look for a cheap late deal. Cos Woy likes him ...
While I'm on a roll here, there's a graphic going around on Twitter tonight showing the win ratios of all six England managers who've been boss for 50 games.
First thing I noticed, surely Greenwood should be above Hodgson because his win ratio was over a longer period.
Secondly, there's nothing really between Greenwood, Hodgson and Eriksson.
Thirdly, had Hodgson not switched Vardy up front late on instead of wasting him out wide, we would most likely have drawn, meaning his won ratio would have dropped to 58% and fourth out of six in the table.
Still, I suppose Sky can't upset Hodgson and England otherwise Nick Collins wouldn't get to ask all the TV questions at each presser!
First thing I noticed, surely Greenwood should be above Hodgson because his win ratio was over a longer period.
Secondly, there's nothing really between Greenwood, Hodgson and Eriksson.
Thirdly, had Hodgson not switched Vardy up front late on instead of wasting him out wide, we would most likely have drawn, meaning his won ratio would have dropped to 58% and fourth out of six in the table.
Still, I suppose Sky can't upset Hodgson and England otherwise Nick Collins wouldn't get to ask all the TV questions at each presser!
Pommygranite said:
GloverMart said:
While I'm on a roll here, there's a graphic going around on Twitter tonight showing the win ratios of all six England managers who've been boss for 50 games.
First thing I noticed, surely Greenwood should be above Hodgson because his win ratio was over a longer period.
Secondly, there's nothing really between Greenwood, Hodgson and Eriksson.
Thirdly, had Hodgson not switched Vardy up front late on instead of wasting him out wide, we would most likely have drawn, meaning his won ratio would have dropped to 58% and fourth out of six in the table.
Still, I suppose Sky can't upset Hodgson and England otherwise Nick Collins wouldn't get to ask all the TV questions at each presser!
Interesting stats.First thing I noticed, surely Greenwood should be above Hodgson because his win ratio was over a longer period.
Secondly, there's nothing really between Greenwood, Hodgson and Eriksson.
Thirdly, had Hodgson not switched Vardy up front late on instead of wasting him out wide, we would most likely have drawn, meaning his won ratio would have dropped to 58% and fourth out of six in the table.
Still, I suppose Sky can't upset Hodgson and England otherwise Nick Collins wouldn't get to ask all the TV questions at each presser!
Is that competitive games only or includes all the pointless easy win friendlies Sven started with?
If I had been Roy, I'd have started using 3-5-2 or 3-4-1-2 eighteen months ago and drilled it into the players. Fair point, I get that not many teams play that way anymore but that can be used as an advantage, not necessarily a disadvantage.
Trouble is, either of those formations require three centre backs in good form and I'm not sure we have one. But if everyone WAS up to speed, you could go (with a 3-4-1-2)
Hart
Cahill - Smalling - Stones
Walker - Dier - Rooney - Rose
Alli
Vardy - Kane
or in a 3-5-2...
Hart
Cahill - Smalling - Stones
Walker - Dier - Alli - Rooney - Rose
Vardy - Kane
Trouble is, either of those formations require three centre backs in good form and I'm not sure we have one. But if everyone WAS up to speed, you could go (with a 3-4-1-2)
Hart
Cahill - Smalling - Stones
Walker - Dier - Rooney - Rose
Alli
Vardy - Kane
or in a 3-5-2...
Hart
Cahill - Smalling - Stones
Walker - Dier - Alli - Rooney - Rose
Vardy - Kane
I think what has got my back up is the fact that Roy stressed in one of his press conferences that he would be taking players on form, not on reputation.
Yet he then picks Wilshere and Sterling above Drinkwater and Townsend. Drinkwater has been an 8/10 performer all season in the Premier League champions team and Townsend has come into form just at the right time.
Poor from Hodgson.
Yet he then picks Wilshere and Sterling above Drinkwater and Townsend. Drinkwater has been an 8/10 performer all season in the Premier League champions team and Townsend has come into form just at the right time.
Poor from Hodgson.
Having been told to shut up whinging and back the team, I hardly dare post here now.... 
But re the Ronaldo comparison and whether the Portuguese are clamouring for him to be left home as he is unfit. He's performed at the highest level all season therefore he merits his place in the Portugal squad. You could even throw Joe Ledley in there; he broke his leg four weeks ago and Chris Coleman has picked him. I'd go as far as to say Ledley going makes more sense than Wilshere.... Ledley has played all this season till his injury and has been an integral part of Wales' qualification. Wilshere hasn't.
Roy hasn't peed me off completely. I'm glad he ditched Walcott and Delph (although how Delph was in front of Noble, I don't know). I'm glad he's taken Rashford as a wild card and I'm also glad that he's gone with five strikers as our defence is so weak. But I'm disappointed that he has largely reverted to type and picked players who are clearly, CLEARLY, not in form for their club sides and selected one player who's not managed four games all season, let alone asking him to play four games in two to three weeks.
As an England fan who loves his country, but not as much as his club mind you, I'm entitled to an opinion and will express it on here till the mods kick me off.
But re the Ronaldo comparison and whether the Portuguese are clamouring for him to be left home as he is unfit. He's performed at the highest level all season therefore he merits his place in the Portugal squad. You could even throw Joe Ledley in there; he broke his leg four weeks ago and Chris Coleman has picked him. I'd go as far as to say Ledley going makes more sense than Wilshere.... Ledley has played all this season till his injury and has been an integral part of Wales' qualification. Wilshere hasn't.
Roy hasn't peed me off completely. I'm glad he ditched Walcott and Delph (although how Delph was in front of Noble, I don't know). I'm glad he's taken Rashford as a wild card and I'm also glad that he's gone with five strikers as our defence is so weak. But I'm disappointed that he has largely reverted to type and picked players who are clearly, CLEARLY, not in form for their club sides and selected one player who's not managed four games all season, let alone asking him to play four games in two to three weeks.
As an England fan who loves his country, but not as much as his club mind you, I'm entitled to an opinion and will express it on here till the mods kick me off.
London424 said:
And here we are again on the eve of a major tournament and we are still trying to shoe horn players into a system rather than pick players (even if not the big names) in their natural positions.
By playing Rooney at the tip of the diamond and playing that far forward you've now got Kane and Vardy who scored about 50 league goals between them playing as wingers tracking full backs and Alli sitting in a deeper role.
What a waste...again!
Precisely. By playing Rooney at the tip of the diamond and playing that far forward you've now got Kane and Vardy who scored about 50 league goals between them playing as wingers tracking full backs and Alli sitting in a deeper role.
What a waste...again!
Roy needs to show some cohonas here and gamble a bit. Portugal are going with Nani up front alone and we have four defenders plus defensively minded Dier and Milner on the pitch. Milner has been woeful tonight so drag him off and go three at the back (Cahill, Dier and Smalling). Get Walker and Rose playing further forward and bring on someone a little more adventurous. Get Kane and Vardy in their proper positions.... with such an old creaky defence, it would have been perfect to put someone like Townsend on to terrorise their defence. But of course we can't....
DSLiverpool said:
One of the crappiest Englsnd teams I can remember - how come we haven't got any world class footballers anymore ?
Once again, makes a mockery of Roy's promise to pick players on form rather than reputation. Four of those players* have had average / poor seasons yet somehow find themselves in the starting XI and in front of Premier League champions players. - - for the avoidance of doubt, the four are Sterling, Lallana, Rooney and Cahill. Although in Cahill's case, he'd be in my team through the lack of a viable alternative.
All that was down to the manager.
First half, looked good playing at a decent tempo, second half he kept Sterling on way too long and made the wrong changes. I'm no fan of Rooney but he had a really good game in centre midfield so Roy takes him off. Wilshere did okay coming on but if ever a game was crying out for a Vardy appearance, this was it. And Milner? I give up!
First half, looked good playing at a decent tempo, second half he kept Sterling on way too long and made the wrong changes. I'm no fan of Rooney but he had a really good game in centre midfield so Roy takes him off. Wilshere did okay coming on but if ever a game was crying out for a Vardy appearance, this was it. And Milner? I give up!
fathomfive said:
MiniMan64 said:
So just to clarify...
Does anyone actually think it was worth Sterling being on the pitch for the second half?
Does anyone NOT think Vardy, Rashford or Sturridge should have been given a run at them for 1/2 hour?
I don't think Sterling should be in the squad, let alone on the pitch.Does anyone actually think it was worth Sterling being on the pitch for the second half?
Does anyone NOT think Vardy, Rashford or Sturridge should have been given a run at them for 1/2 hour?
He offers nothing more than outright speed. There is never an end product and never will be because he just isn't that good.
If he'd not played for Liverpool and Man City he'd be nowhere near international football and rightly so.
His talent appears inversely proportional to his proximity to the byline or opposition box.
Sadly English football prefers players of this ilk. All legs but no brain.
When Sterling's in that position, he seems to want to head for the corner flag and cross it rather than bear down on goal and actually have a dig. Whether it's poor tactics or a loss of confidence, I have no idea, but as others have said, his end product this season should have barred him from getting on the plane.
southendpier said:
Hart worries me, woeful distribution and decision making. So panicky.
And at least twice a game, he will kick the ball straight into touch, either from his hands or off the floor. For a supposedly top class keeper, his distribution is questionable to say the least. RaymondVanDerDon said:
We dominated the firt half but ultimately we can't score. Yes the likes of Rooney, Kane, Lallana are technically gifted big money players but they haven't performed for their clubs all season so what makes you think they can do the job for England? Do you base it on the mickey mouse teams we played in the qualifiers?
Roy himself at the last press conference before the Euros said the system is irrelevant - it's all about the players. So why not then pick our in form players? Vardy is far more versatile then you give him credit for.
Rooney and Lallana I'd agree with but how can you say Kane hasn't performed all season. He won the PL Golden Boot and has been consistently impressive with England.Roy himself at the last press conference before the Euros said the system is irrelevant - it's all about the players. So why not then pick our in form players? Vardy is far more versatile then you give him credit for.
Last night was his first disappointing game for his country that I can remember.
RaymondVanDerDon said:
GloverMart said:
Rooney and Lallana I'd agree with but how can you say Kane hasn't performed all season. He won the PL Golden Boot and has been consistently impressive with England.
Last night was his first disappointing game for his country that I can remember.
Sorry I acknowledged in a previous post that Kane was typed in error as I became embroiled in an argument about his right to a starting place ahead of Vardy given his performance last night. He was in my mind as I typed it. Last night was his first disappointing game for his country that I can remember.
DuncanM said:
So glad we won! After being comfortably the best side in both games, 2 points wouldn't have been a fair return.
I don't want any Spurs fans getting upset over this, but Kane has to play second fiddle to the Vardy and Sturridge combo moving forward.
I like Kane, but something isn't quite working for him in France, and we don't have the game time to make it right.
A fit Sturridge is still England's best striker imo.
I think Kane is shattered. He certainly doesn't seem to have the movement he had earlier in the season; they picked up on this in the build-up and his performance seemed to back it up completely. I don't want any Spurs fans getting upset over this, but Kane has to play second fiddle to the Vardy and Sturridge combo moving forward.
I like Kane, but something isn't quite working for him in France, and we don't have the game time to make it right.
A fit Sturridge is still England's best striker imo.
Sterling shouldn't have gone to the Euro's and for the first half, we played with ten men. The bloke is a waste of a shirt at the moment and needs to be left out for the rest of the tournament.
RaymondVanDerDon said:
audi321 said:
I really don't think Vardy did as much as people are making out here. Yes he scored, but he was a yard out and even then he scuffed it. Would have been offside if it had come off someone it was meant for. Didn't do that much more. England do not play the way he is suited for and Sturridge isn't a great match for him.
Come off it. The fact he was in the right place at the right time is 99% of what a good striker needs to do. Who else has done that as effectively as Vardy?SilverSpur said:
The Manager made a great career and reputation saving move by bringing on an additional THREE strikers during the game. However, he started the match with two players that showed no form or quality in the first match and the only concession he made to criticism was changing the corner taker.
Most other teams at the Euros would have hit you on the break playing such a formation and England would be teetering on the bring with 2 points or possibly even just the one.
Yes it was 'only' Wales and England could afford to play in the Welsh half of the pitch, that's a Welsh side with a number of fitness issues by the way.
Sturridge's goal saved the manager from a massive backlash. If the game had been a minute or two shorter...?
Seriously, it was Wales.
Spot on, great post.Most other teams at the Euros would have hit you on the break playing such a formation and England would be teetering on the bring with 2 points or possibly even just the one.
Yes it was 'only' Wales and England could afford to play in the Welsh half of the pitch, that's a Welsh side with a number of fitness issues by the way.
Sturridge's goal saved the manager from a massive backlash. If the game had been a minute or two shorter...?
Seriously, it was Wales.
All I can add to it is that I am not sure Roy should be praised to the hilt for getting us out of a sticky situation that his tactics and decision had planted us in, in the first place.
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