The Official England Thread-The Team We All Support [Vol 2]

[Brave Fart]

Granfondo said:

Didn't hear all this bullst when you breezed through the qualifiers!

Well it's not BS is it? Or do you mean "all this criticism"?
Anyway you have a fair point - we beat Switzerland twice, they are comparable to Slovakia etc. Winning all ten qualifiers tells you the players are not that bad. Hodgson fell apart when it really mattered and didn't even have the guts to apologise.

[hornetrider]

TEKNOPUG said:

Wales are one of the top four teams in Europe, no?

fking a-men brother!

[throt]

Brave Fart said:

Hodgson fell apart when it really mattered and didn't even have the guts to apologise.

Hodgson lost his job in the last 60 mins against Iceland, thats the simple fact. If we would have won that game then you lot wouldn't be slatting him. He had 60 mins to change things, he had all the players and enough of them to play in their natural club positions. Past England managers have all looked for a magic formation to win all games instead of just using a formation that is consistent. I couldn't believe it when Roy left Lallana out against Iceland, a real strange decision because he more than proved his worth ( and I do not support any Prem club so no bias opinion here ). Wilshere was a surprising sub to say the least.

[throt]

TEKNOPUG said:

TwigtheWonderkid said:

TEKNOPUG said:

That's because we were seeded and played dross. Meaning that everyone had a false sense of our ability because we had a 100@% qualifing record. But we didn't play anyone good. We never play anyone good until the tournament

Who did we play that was any good in the tournament? Russia, Wales, Slovakia & Iceland. Hardly a parade of Europe's finest.

They were clearly all good in relation to us! Wales are one of the top four teams in Europe, no?

No . Wales have done really well due to a good run and momentum.

[TwigtheWonderkid]

TEKNOPUG said:

They were clearly all good in relation to us! Wales are one of the top four teams in Europe, no?

Err no! Nor are Iceland in the top 8.

[swisstoni]

Why does the England manger have to be paid £4mil a year?
Shirly this turns them into company men who are not willing to stand up for themselves or rock the boat if necessary.

[TEKNOPUG]

TwigtheWonderkid said:

TEKNOPUG said:

They were clearly all good in relation to us! Wales are one of the top four teams in Europe, no?

Err no! Nor are Iceland in the top 8.

We have a competition in Europe every 4 years to determine who the best teams are. Everyone is invited to compete. There are a series of qualifiers and then a competition, with group games and then knockout rounds. It's called "The Euros" - you may have heard of it? Wales are through to the last 4, ergo they are one of the top 4 teams in Europe. Or would you like to apply some other methodology? They're clearly better than England and Belgium.

Look at England's qualifying group: Switzerland, Slovenia, Estonia, Lithuania & San Marino.

Only England & Switzerland qualified and they both got knocked out in the last 16. Our qualifying group was pish. We won 10 times against teams not even good enough to qualify or get past the first knock out stage. We were never challenged, never pushed, never had our tactics questioned or put under pressure. And surprise surprise, as soon as we play some competant, organised sides, we get shown up as lacking. I maintain my assertion that England would benefit from not being seeded for the next tournament qualifiers and actually have to play some decent teams, in competitive matches.

[Trabi601]

TEKNOPUG said:

We have a competition in Europe every 4 years to determine who the best teams are. Everyone is invited to compete. There are a series of qualifiers and then a competition, with group games and then knockout rounds. It's called "The Euros" - you may have heard of it? Wales are through to the last 4, ergo they are one of the top 4 teams in Europe. Or would you like to apply some other methodology? They're clearly better than England and Belgium.

That's just wrong.

It's a knock-out cup completion after the farce of the groups, which seeds decent teams to guarantee they'll make it through.

It's like claiming the winner of the FA Cup is the best team in England.

[TEKNOPUG]

Trabi601 said:

TEKNOPUG said:

We have a competition in Europe every 4 years to determine who the best teams are. Everyone is invited to compete. There are a series of qualifiers and then a competition, with group games and then knockout rounds. It's called "The Euros" - you may have heard of it? Wales are through to the last 4, ergo they are one of the top 4 teams in Europe. Or would you like to apply some other methodology? They're clearly better than England and Belgium.

That's just wrong.

It's a knock-out cup completion after the farce of the groups, which seeds decent teams to guarantee they'll make it through.

It's like claiming the winner of the FA Cup is the best team in England.

Wales won their group. As did Germany, Italy and France. Which are the 4 remaining teams. Who else should be there? Wales weren't seeded - Spain were and could only come second to Croatia. And then lost to Italy. Who are the best 4 teams in Europe then? Clearly not England. Or Belgium. Or Spain. Or Portugal who finished 3rd in their group behind Hungary and Iceland, even though they were the group seeds.

So if Germany win, they aren't the best team in Europe? Or France if they win? Or Italy if they win? They FA Cup is a poor analogy as clubs clearly play weakened teams and don't make it a priority. They do in the league though, which Leicester won, so they were the best team last season, yes?

[Mothersruin]

Granfondo said:

Didn't hear all this bullst when you breezed through the qualifiers!

I didn't watch them. I'd pretty much given up watching England play.

When we qualified for the Euros, I thought I'd give it a go.

Same old.

A bunch of players who didn't try hard enough caged in tactics that often went against their club roles.

Same old.

That said, RH managed to through in some truly woeful choices that a gibbon could have told you were stupid.

[Trabi601]

TEKNOPUG said:

Wales won their group. As did Germany, Italy and France. Which are the 4 remaining teams. Who else should be there? Wales weren't seeded - Spain were and could only come second to Croatia. And then lost to Italy. Who are the best 4 teams in Europe then? Clearly not England. Or Belgium. Or Spain. Or Portugal who finished 3rd in their group behind Hungary and Iceland, even though they were the group seeds.

So if Germany win, they aren't the best team in Europe? Or France if they win? Or Italy if they win? They FA Cup is a poor analogy as clubs clearly play weakened teams and don't make it a priority. They do in the league though, which Leicester won, so they were the best team last season, yes?

Point proven.

'The league' is very different to a knock-out cup.

Anything can happen in 1-off knock-out games. Belgium are ranked no. 2 in the world right now - this is based on much longer term results than the current championship, where Wales played the game of their lives and Belgium were a bit flat.

Were Denmark the best team in Europe when they won the European Championships (they only qualified due to a disqualification!), how about Greece? - the answer is obviously no, they weren't - but they did win the championship.

[counterofbeans]

TEKNOPUG said:

Wales won their group. As did Germany, Italy and France. Which are the 4 remaining teams. Who else should be there? Wales weren't seeded - Spain were and could only come second to Croatia. And then lost to Italy. Who are the best 4 teams in Europe then? Clearly not England. Or Belgium. Or Spain. Or Portugal who finished 3rd in their group behind Hungary and Iceland, even though they were the group seeds.

So if Germany win, they aren't the best team in Europe? Or France if they win? Or Italy if they win? They FA Cup is a poor analogy as clubs clearly play weakened teams and don't make it a priority. They do in the league though, which Leicester won, so they were the best team last season, yes?

I think Italy lost to Germany

[Turquoise]

TEKNOPUG said:

Who else should be there?

Portugal maybe...?

[TEKNOPUG]

counterofbeans said:

TEKNOPUG said:

Wales won their group. As did Germany, Italy and France. Which are the 4 remaining teams. Who else should be there? Wales weren't seeded - Spain were and could only come second to Croatia. And then lost to Italy. Who are the best 4 teams in Europe then? Clearly not England. Or Belgium. Or Spain. Or Portugal who finished 3rd in their group behind Hungary and Iceland, even though they were the group seeds.

So if Germany win, they aren't the best team in Europe? Or France if they win? Or Italy if they win? They FA Cup is a poor analogy as clubs clearly play weakened teams and don't make it a priority. They do in the league though, which Leicester won, so they were the best team last season, yes?

I think Italy lost to Germany

You spotted my deliberate mistake....shouldn't post when trying to host a phone conferecen at the same time

[TEKNOPUG]

Trabi601 said:

Point proven.

'The league' is very different to a knock-out cup.

Anything can happen in 1-off knock-out games. Belgium are ranked no. 2 in the world right now - this is based on much longer term results than the current championship, where Wales played the game of their lives and Belgium were a bit flat.

Were Denmark the best team in Europe when they won the European Championships (they only qualified due to a disqualification!), how about Greece? - the answer is obviously no, they weren't - but they did win the championship.

Wales won their "league" though. And then won the next 2 knockout games and are now in the last 4.

World rankings are utterly meaningless, unless all teams played the same sides.

I think that if the game was played tonight, Wales would beat both Poland & Iceland, probably not Italy. So at the very least Wales must be in the top 6 European countries right now. If it all comes down to luck and it's a meanigless lottery of a competition, why is everyone so upset over England's performance? I think that Wales deserve a bit more respect.

[Granfondo]

TEKNOPUG said:

Trabi601 said:

Point proven.

'The league' is very different to a knock-out cup.

Anything can happen in 1-off knock-out games. Belgium are ranked no. 2 in the world right now - this is based on much longer term results than the current championship, where Wales played the game of their lives and Belgium were a bit flat.

Were Denmark the best team in Europe when they won the European Championships (they only qualified due to a disqualification!), how about Greece? - the answer is obviously no, they weren't - but they did win the championship.

Wales won their "league" though. And then won the next 2 knockout games and are now in the last 4.

World rankings are utterly meaningless, unless all teams played the same sides.

I think that if the game was played tonight, Wales would beat both Poland & Iceland, probably not Italy. So at the very least Wales must be in the top 6 European countries right now. If it all comes down to luck and it's a meanigless lottery of a competition, why is everyone so upset over England's performance? I think that Wales deserve a bit more respect.

So not top 4 as you suggested earlier?

[Trabi601]

TEKNOPUG said:

Wales won their "league" though. And then won the next 2 knockout games and are now in the last 4.

World rankings are utterly meaningless, unless all teams played the same sides.

I think that if the game was played tonight, Wales would beat both Poland & Iceland, probably not Italy. So at the very least Wales must be in the top 6 European countries right now. If it all comes down to luck and it's a meanigless lottery of a competition, why is everyone so upset over England's performance? I think that Wales deserve a bit more respect.

You keep proving my point!

Italy were knocked out earlier than Wales, so, by your logic, Wales must be a better side than Italy. But you also think Italy would beat Wales if they played each other. Which surely means Italy are the better team?

Unless you're hopeless, you qualify from the groups in this current format - finishing first or second swings on the result between the top 2 most of the time, but only the truly awful teams go home at this stage.

After that, it's anyone's. Just as with any knock-out competition.

People are hacked off about England because they just didn't turn up for any of their games.

Wales are playing well, they're playing as a team, and they deserve all the success they're having - however, this does not make them one of the best sides in Europe. Something that will become very obvious in the World Cup qualifying campaign. It's just one of those occasions where everything has fallen into place at the right time - just as it did for Denmark back in 1992.

[TwigtheWonderkid]

Trabi601 said:

Unless you're hopeless, you qualify from the groups in this current format -

Agreed, with England being the exception that proves the rule.

[TwigtheWonderkid]

Teknoplug, explain Denmark. According to you, they were the best team in Europe having won the 92 Euros...a competition they actually failed to qualify for and only got into because Yugoslavia descended into civil war!!!

[ScottishExile]

So IF Wales go on and win the competition, does that make England the bast team in Europe, given that they beat Wales in the group stage !