Cristiano Ronaldo
Discussion
Maradonna was better.
He dragged a mid table Napoli to the win the Serie A twice, the coppa Italia twice and the UEFA cup if I remember rightly whilst also winning the world cup for (not with) Argentina almost by himself. Until his arrival at Napoli no Southern Italian team had EVER won Serie A. He was joint (with Pele) FIFA player of the Century. Amongst other accolades he won the Golden Ball at the 86 World Cup.
Ronaldo has always played in the best team in whichever league he has been in. When Ronaldo joins Villarreal and helps them to the La Liga title a couple of times plus a European cup of some description he can rightly claim to be as good, until then for me, not a hope in hell.
He dragged a mid table Napoli to the win the Serie A twice, the coppa Italia twice and the UEFA cup if I remember rightly whilst also winning the world cup for (not with) Argentina almost by himself. Until his arrival at Napoli no Southern Italian team had EVER won Serie A. He was joint (with Pele) FIFA player of the Century. Amongst other accolades he won the Golden Ball at the 86 World Cup.
Ronaldo has always played in the best team in whichever league he has been in. When Ronaldo joins Villarreal and helps them to the La Liga title a couple of times plus a European cup of some description he can rightly claim to be as good, until then for me, not a hope in hell.
Real Madrid would beat Chelsea 9 out of 10 times.
Barcelona are relatively poor this season so yes if Aguero is fit Barcelona are beatable. They've been horrific in the past few transfer windows defensively.
To say Maradona was better than Ronaldo I do not agree with.
Football now is a different sport to back then. Every player is an athlete now.
Messi is the best i've ever seen. Ronaldo has been better than Messi over the past year or so though
Barcelona are relatively poor this season so yes if Aguero is fit Barcelona are beatable. They've been horrific in the past few transfer windows defensively.
To say Maradona was better than Ronaldo I do not agree with.
Football now is a different sport to back then. Every player is an athlete now.
Messi is the best i've ever seen. Ronaldo has been better than Messi over the past year or so though
TEKNOPUG said:
The top 2? That's ridiculous.Why not the top 5 or top 10. Surely it's strength in depth that counts. It's akin to saying the Scottish Prem is better than the Championship because Celtic...
The reason that the bottom teams in EPL can beat the top is because they have much stronger squads than the Spanish equivalent. Suggesting that the quality of a league can be determined by the strength of the top 2 teams is totally illogical, unless you only watch El Classico. Basing it on the bottom teams would make a lot more sense.
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No, the other guy was commenting on how La Liga consists of the top two and not a lot else, so I used our top two as a comparison. Ours is just not as GOOD, even if it is more competitive.The reason that the bottom teams in EPL can beat the top is because they have much stronger squads than the Spanish equivalent. Suggesting that the quality of a league can be determined by the strength of the top 2 teams is totally illogical, unless you only watch El Classico. Basing it on the bottom teams would make a lot more sense.
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Skylinecrazy said:
Please explain to me why la liga is better than the prem. The league as a whole that is, not just the top two teams..
Honestly, this has been discussed before...and above. It depends on your definition of 'better'. If a more competitive division is better then yes, I agree the Prem is the better division. However, if it is the quality of football directly compared to the teams in the same positions in both leagues then in my opinion, it is La Liga. Definitely towards the top of the table. Opinion is totally discounted on this forum, isn't it? if you want any more clarification why some think the same way I do then do a search. It's becoming tiresome trying to defend my opinion against comments like 'are you stupid' and 'it's ridiculous'.
Ronaldo for me, i think Messi has gone off the boil a bit the last few months, which is why he didn't win, the right person won it.
It was good to see Neuer be in the top 3 though, being a GK myself, i can't see what else he's done to win it, even if Bayern had won the CL i don't think he'd have received it.
An attacking player/ or CM will always win it.=, which is why they should have a GK award, playing in goal is a completely extra set of skills.
It was good to see Neuer be in the top 3 though, being a GK myself, i can't see what else he's done to win it, even if Bayern had won the CL i don't think he'd have received it.
An attacking player/ or CM will always win it.=, which is why they should have a GK award, playing in goal is a completely extra set of skills.
theguvernor said:
Ronaldo for me, i think Messi has gone off the boil a bit the last few months, which is why he didn't win, the right person won it.
It was good to see Neuer be in the top 3 though, being a GK myself, i can't see what else he's done to win it, even if Bayern had won the CL i don't think he'd have received it.
An attacking player/ or CM will always win it.=, which is why they should have a GK award, playing in goal is a completely extra set of skills.
I take very little notice of the Ballon D'Or, mainly because they keep missing Reuben Reid off the shortlist. Therefore, I was shocked when you said there is no GK award. Watching De Gea this season, he must have earnt his team a whole load of points and that deserves to be recognised (not just in the team of the year, or whatever they call it).It was good to see Neuer be in the top 3 though, being a GK myself, i can't see what else he's done to win it, even if Bayern had won the CL i don't think he'd have received it.
An attacking player/ or CM will always win it.=, which is why they should have a GK award, playing in goal is a completely extra set of skills.
Ronaldo deserved it and Neuer can't argue, he stuffed two past him in the Champs League semi. 
On the argument about La Liga versus Prem, I don't think Real or Barca could amass the sort of points in a season they have been in this league. The overall quality is higher, they'd get caught out more often, much like the top teams here do. I think Chelsea right now are a match for Real or Barca, they'd be very close games.
On the argument about La Liga versus Prem, I don't think Real or Barca could amass the sort of points in a season they have been in this league. The overall quality is higher, they'd get caught out more often, much like the top teams here do. I think Chelsea right now are a match for Real or Barca, they'd be very close games.
selym said:
I take very little notice of the Ballon D'Or, mainly because they keep missing Reuben Reid off the shortlist. Therefore, I was shocked when you said there is no GK award. Watching De Gea this season, he must have earnt his team a whole load of points and that deserves to be recognised (not just in the team of the year, or whatever they call it).
For me, there's 4 top teams in Europe now: Real, Chelsea, Barca & Bayern - for me, pretty much in that order.The Prem is a lot more entertaining to watch this year, although Chelsea & City have dominated a lot of games, i don't feel there is the 2 team dominance of recent years Man U/Arsenal, Man U Chelsea, City/Chelsea etc.
selym said:
Skylinecrazy said:
Please explain to me why la liga is better than the prem. The league as a whole that is, not just the top two teams..
Honestly, this has been discussed before...and above. It depends on your definition of 'better'. If a more competitive division is better then yes, I agree the Prem is the better division. However, if it is the quality of football directly compared to the teams in the same positions in both leagues then in my opinion, it is La Liga. Definitely towards the top of the table. Opinion is totally discounted on this forum, isn't it? if you want any more clarification why some think the same way I do then do a search. It's becoming tiresome trying to defend my opinion against comments like 'are you stupid' and 'it's ridiculous'.
Maybe you just aren't doing a very good job of explaining your view? Asserting that the quality of one league of 20 clubs is better than another, just by comparing a 10% sample of the teams, seems very poor from an analysis point of view. If anything, one should consider excluding the top and bottom 2 clubs to avoid anomolies and compare only the remaining 80%.
But we shall agree to differ :thumbsup:
Always be difficult to judge Ronaldo/Messi with regards to the clubs they play for. Bit like arguing whether Mourinho is a great manager when he only ever manages the richest clubs in each league.
I don't think that you can compare player's across generations. Fitness, training, diet etc is much improved today. Add in changes to the ball, boots, offside rule, outlawing of tackling etc. How would Ronaldo/Messi have fared back in the 70/80s, when you were actually allowed to tackle? Didn't stop Maradona and I doubt that it would have phased Zidane.
TEKNOPUG said:
selym said:
Skylinecrazy said:
Please explain to me why la liga is better than the prem. The league as a whole that is, not just the top two teams..
Honestly, this has been discussed before...and above. It depends on your definition of 'better'. If a more competitive division is better then yes, I agree the Prem is the better division. However, if it is the quality of football directly compared to the teams in the same positions in both leagues then in my opinion, it is La Liga. Definitely towards the top of the table. Opinion is totally discounted on this forum, isn't it? if you want any more clarification why some think the same way I do then do a search. It's becoming tiresome trying to defend my opinion against comments like 'are you stupid' and 'it's ridiculous'.
Maybe you just aren't doing a very good job of explaining your view? Asserting that the quality of one league of 20 clubs is better than another, just by comparing a 10% sample of the teams, seems very poor from an analysis point of view. If anything, one should consider excluding the top and bottom 2 clubs to avoid anomolies and compare only the remaining 80%.
But we shall agree to differ :thumbsup:
Always be difficult to judge Ronaldo/Messi with regards to the clubs they play for. Bit like arguing whether Mourinho is a great manager when he only ever manages the richest clubs in each league.
I don't think that you can compare player's across generations. Fitness, training, diet etc is much improved today. Add in changes to the ball, boots, offside rule, outlawing of tackling etc. How would Ronaldo/Messi have fared back in the 70/80s, when you were actually allowed to tackle? Didn't stop Maradona and I doubt that it would have phased Zidane.
Some clown on talksport yesterday was arguing that Ronaldo is better than Pele because he can think of more film clips of Ronaldo's skill/goals than Pele's! I totally agree with you on this point; 70s pitches with lines being relaid at half time, proper tackling (which we still see in isolation), Mitre Deltas and Puma Dalglish Golds, it all points to the fact that players had to deal with a lot more in those days. Zidane and Messi (to a certain extent) are throwbacks to that era, but with the skill and conditioning of the present day. Messi takes a right kicking every week and gets on with it, which is admirable in the current trend of diving and rolling about.
How many times would Ronaldo have 'gone to ground' if he were playing in the late 80's 
Yes, players are slightly fitter today than then but to insinuate, as some have, that they weren't very highly trained athletes 15-20 years ago is ludicrous in the extreme.
There's even an argument that because you can't tackle now as they could then that Maradona would have been even better if he were playing today than he was then.
Yes, players are slightly fitter today than then but to insinuate, as some have, that they weren't very highly trained athletes 15-20 years ago is ludicrous in the extreme.
There's even an argument that because you can't tackle now as they could then that Maradona would have been even better if he were playing today than he was then.
If the Prem took the same approach to TV funding as La Liga, and the UK government allowed a few exclusive clubs to get away with paying little or no tax, we would undoubtedly get the same outcome here, but the league would be a worse place for it IMO.
Great if you wait for the 2 El Classicos per season, or enjoy watching RM and Barca hammer rubbish opposition every week.
Great if you wait for the 2 El Classicos per season, or enjoy watching RM and Barca hammer rubbish opposition every week.
selym said:
Perhaps it's time to start an Anglo-Spanish Cup?
Some clown on talksport yesterday was arguing that Ronaldo is better than Pele because he can think of more film clips of Ronaldo's skill/goals than Pele's! I totally agree with you on this point; 70s pitches with lines being relaid at half time, proper tackling (which we still see in isolation), Mitre Deltas and Puma Dalglish Golds, it all points to the fact that players had to deal with a lot more in those days. Zidane and Messi (to a certain extent) are throwbacks to that era, but with the skill and conditioning of the present day. Messi takes a right kicking every week and gets on with it, which is admirable in the current trend of diving and rolling about.
Even European competition is not a great comparison. Consider how many more games Prem teams play, for example, in domestic cup competitions. Every game is competitive; it's very rare that the other just roll over - look at all the cup matches against lower league teams. Then look at the comparitive strength of each league. Sure Citeh and Chelsea, often win by 3 goals or more but they always have to fight for it, for the full 90mins. Teams like Bayern and to some extent, Real/Barca, coast most league games. Meaning they are better rested and prepared for Euro Games. Add in a winter break and it's not a level playing field.Some clown on talksport yesterday was arguing that Ronaldo is better than Pele because he can think of more film clips of Ronaldo's skill/goals than Pele's! I totally agree with you on this point; 70s pitches with lines being relaid at half time, proper tackling (which we still see in isolation), Mitre Deltas and Puma Dalglish Golds, it all points to the fact that players had to deal with a lot more in those days. Zidane and Messi (to a certain extent) are throwbacks to that era, but with the skill and conditioning of the present day. Messi takes a right kicking every week and gets on with it, which is admirable in the current trend of diving and rolling about.
Chris Stott said:
If the Prem took the same approach to TV funding as La Liga, and the UK government allowed a few exclusive clubs to get away with paying little or no tax, we would undoubtedly get the same outcome here, but the league would be a worse place for it IMO.
Great if you wait for the 2 El Classicos per season, or enjoy watching RM and Barca hammer rubbish opposition every week.
If you had a similar set up to La Liga, you'd end up with the bottom 5 clubs getting £35m TV money a season and Man City and Chelsea getting £300m!Great if you wait for the 2 El Classicos per season, or enjoy watching RM and Barca hammer rubbish opposition every week.
Real & Barca wouldn't have any players left
TEKNOPUG said:
selym said:
Perhaps it's time to start an Anglo-Spanish Cup?
Some clown on talksport yesterday was arguing that Ronaldo is better than Pele because he can think of more film clips of Ronaldo's skill/goals than Pele's! I totally agree with you on this point; 70s pitches with lines being relaid at half time, proper tackling (which we still see in isolation), Mitre Deltas and Puma Dalglish Golds, it all points to the fact that players had to deal with a lot more in those days. Zidane and Messi (to a certain extent) are throwbacks to that era, but with the skill and conditioning of the present day. Messi takes a right kicking every week and gets on with it, which is admirable in the current trend of diving and rolling about.
Even European competition is not a great comparison. Consider how many more games Prem teams play, for example, in domestic cup competitions. Every game is competitive; it's very rare that the other just roll over - look at all the cup matches against lower league teams. Then look at the comparitive strength of each league. Sure Citeh and Chelsea, often win by 3 goals or more but they always have to fight for it, for the full 90mins. Teams like Bayern and to some extent, Real/Barca, coast most league games. Meaning they are better rested and prepared for Euro Games. Add in a winter break and it's not a level playing field.Some clown on talksport yesterday was arguing that Ronaldo is better than Pele because he can think of more film clips of Ronaldo's skill/goals than Pele's! I totally agree with you on this point; 70s pitches with lines being relaid at half time, proper tackling (which we still see in isolation), Mitre Deltas and Puma Dalglish Golds, it all points to the fact that players had to deal with a lot more in those days. Zidane and Messi (to a certain extent) are throwbacks to that era, but with the skill and conditioning of the present day. Messi takes a right kicking every week and gets on with it, which is admirable in the current trend of diving and rolling about.
The Copa del Rey is played over two legs from the moment the bigger teams enter, to the one legged final, which is nine games to win the thing. English teams in the top division have six games (notwithstanding replays) to win the thing. Spain do not have a league cup to contest, but the winter break would force them to play a similar amount of games over a very slightly shorter season. Both divisions play the same amount of league games, and are able to play in the same amount of European games.
Just saying.
E24man said:
In my opinion Ronaldo has edged slightly above Messi to stand in front of Cruyff, Eusebio, Moore, Puskas and Maradona. Without diminishing Messi, for their careers are ongoing, their next targets are Best, Pele and Zidane.
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What a nonsense; Best and Zidane in the top 3 ever.............besides a definitive top 5 or top 10 is always going to end up in useless comparison between players of different periods etc. And where are Beckenbauer, Schuster,Platini etc. .
And I f.i. would add Marco van Basten to that list (above players like Maradonna, Moore, Zidane etc f.i.); Why; Ronaldo is a great player now at the age of 27 (and the past +/- 3 years) but somehow he needed more time and effort to get where he is than players like Van Basten (which career as a 2 time World Player of the Year and 3 times European player of the year was already over at the age of 25/26). Just like Ronaldo (the brazilian)and Messi, Van Basten was already world class at a far younger age. The young ManU Ronaldo wasn't that good.
Edited by DeltonaS on Wednesday 14th January 15:26
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