Cristiano Ronaldo
Discussion
chrisb92 said:
7 of those 11 were won by Ronaldo and Messi. The others by Ronaldinho, Cannavaro, Ronaldo and Figo. Not like Guti picked up a couple and Bojan.
Yes, my bad but I think my point remains about it being weighted towards players from Southern European teams. Nobody is doubting that Ronaldo and Messi are great players buthttp://www.mirror.co.uk/sport/football/news/franck...
http://www.thelocal.es/20141129/real-madrid-hit-ou...
http://worldsport.blogs.cnn.com/2014/01/13/ballon-...
Excerpt from that last link
"In 2001 when Michael Owen won the award, his then manager at Liverpool, Gerard Houllier, had to take him aside and educate him on the gravitas which comes with such an honor.
Owen was blasé about the entire episode, perhaps not realizing the esteem in which the award is held outside of the United Kingdom.
In Spain they care – not that a Spaniard has won the award since Luis Suarez in 1960. Instead it is factional – it’s about how many times has a Real player has won the award compared with nemesis Barcelona."
This bias is a growing feeling amongst non-latin football fans and in the northern european media and I actually first read about it some 10 years ago.
I find it odd how people claim the Premier League is hailed as the 'Best in the world', yet no Premier League players ever seem to win the awards. I mean the inclusion of David Luiz to the team of the year is an absolute joke. I think even Shawcross has put in a better shift in 2014!
chrisb92 said:
I find it odd how people claim the Premier League is hailed as the 'Best in the world', yet no Premier League players ever seem to win the awards. I mean the inclusion of David Luiz to the team of the year is an absolute joke. I think even Shawcross has put in a better shift in 2014!
It is and has been second rate for a while. That needs to be taken into account when going on about being at the top in multiple leagues. There are stronger TEAMS around Europe, imo. But, as a league i feel the premier league is far stronger than the other two mentioned!!
Just look at the leagues and the points from every season. Bayern have been dropping barely dropping points and Real just won 21 matches in a row or whatever it was
Just look at the leagues and the points from every season. Bayern have been dropping barely dropping points and Real just won 21 matches in a row or whatever it was
chrisb92 said:
There are stronger TEAMS around Europe, imo. But, as a league i feel the premier league is far stronger than the other two mentioned!!
Just look at the leagues and the points from every season. Bayern have been dropping barely dropping points and Real just won 21 matches in a row or whatever it was
Do you mean more competitive? That has little bearing on the quality of football delivered. Just look at the leagues and the points from every season. Bayern have been dropping barely dropping points and Real just won 21 matches in a row or whatever it was
Arsenal are 5th in the league and have players like Ozil, Cazorla and Sanchez. Look at the squad of 5th place in La Liga or any other league for that matter! Theres a HUGE gulf in quality outside the top 3 in la liga. Take this from someone who watches Real most weeks, they are never reallty challenged aside from El Classico or the Madrid derby. They lost to Valencia the other week and the pundits went wild as if they would if Chelsea lost to S
horpe.
horpe.selym said:
chrisb92 said:
There are stronger TEAMS around Europe, imo. But, as a league i feel the premier league is far stronger than the other two mentioned!!
Just look at the leagues and the points from every season. Bayern have been dropping barely dropping points and Real just won 21 matches in a row or whatever it was
Do you mean more competitive? That has little bearing on the quality of football delivered. Just look at the leagues and the points from every season. Bayern have been dropping barely dropping points and Real just won 21 matches in a row or whatever it was
Quality wise, the premier league is the best in the world by a country mile. Look at the amount of internationals for one.
chrisb92 said:
Arsenal are 5th in the league and have players like Ozil, Cazorla and Sanchez. Look at the squad of 5th place in La Liga or any other league for that matter! Theres a HUGE gulf in quality outside the top 3 in la liga. Take this from someone who watches Real most weeks, they are never reallty challenged aside from El Classico or the Madrid derby. They lost to Valencia the other week and the pundits went wild as if they would if Chelsea lost to Shorpe.
So you do mean more competitive then. Arsenal are only fifth because they have been poor this season, much the same as all but the top two really. They aren't even immune to drawing or losing to the lower half teams. That's more competitive, but it doesn't mean the league is of a better quality.horpe.chrisb92 said:
Are you stupid? This shows there is a greater quality in the premier league, as bottom can beat top (deservedly), and top often drop points? Real Madrid and Barcelona beat teams comprehensively most weeks, as the opposition is plain piss.
Am I stupid? Not enough to throw a PH style insult the other way when I'm not winning a discussion. The only way you can suggest that the division is a better quality is if the top two are as good as the top two in Spain. Which they are not; nowhere near. That is why they can be beaten by the relegation fodder, not because it's the best league in the world.
I've been involved in discussions like this before, so I'll bow out and let you go away and insult others now.
In my view, an uncompetitive league is the old Scottish premier, only two possible winners and both do nothing in Europe. In England there are up to three possible winners but limited chances of European success. In comparison Spain has a limited number of winners but the standard is far higher and teams can win European competitions on a regular basis. Most leagues are very similar to be honest.
selym said:
Am I stupid? Not enough to throw a PH style insult the other way when I'm not winning a discussion.
The only way you can suggest that the division is a better quality is if the top two are as good as the top two in Spain. Which they are not; nowhere near. That is why they can be beaten by the relegation fodder, not because it's the best league in the world.
I've been involved in discussions like this before, so I'll bow out and let you go away and insult others now.
The top 2? That's ridiculous.Why not the top 5 or top 10. Surely it's strength in depth that counts. It's akin to saying the Scottish Prem is better than the Championship because Celtic...The only way you can suggest that the division is a better quality is if the top two are as good as the top two in Spain. Which they are not; nowhere near. That is why they can be beaten by the relegation fodder, not because it's the best league in the world.
I've been involved in discussions like this before, so I'll bow out and let you go away and insult others now.
The reason that the bottom teams in EPL can beat the top is because they have much stronger squads than the Spanish equivalent. Suggesting that the quality of a league can be determined by the strength of the top 2 teams is totally illogical, unless you only watch El Classico. Basing it on the bottom teams would make a lot more sense.
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Only at the end of his career will you be able to accurately judge Christiano Ronaldo alongside the already recognised all time greats.
It's fairly safe to say that, along with Puskas, Eusebio, Cruyff and Best, that Ronaldo, without a higher class of International team-mates is unlikely to win International honours. So to that end he has to prove and improve himself further than perhaps Pele, Maradona and Zidane - but the flip side of this arguement is that perhaps Messi, with the wealth of Argentinian talent should have won more International honours by now?
In terms of his technical and all round ability I think there is little question now; he surpasses Messi individually in all but passing ability, certainly his only question-mark from a few years ago, his all round vision of the shape of a game is now equal to Messi.
IMHO he can take a team as its talisman and playmaker further than Messi can as Messi's game relies more on very high ability and crucially, similar ability players to himself. Without Iniesta and Xavi would Messi and Barcelona be as successful? Very unlikely, as we are probably to find out in the coming years.
In my opinion Ronaldo has edged slightly above Messi to stand in front of Cruyff, Eusebio, Moore, Puskas and Maradona. Without diminishing Messi, for their careers are ongoing, their next targets are Best, Pele and Zidane.
Best could make a 100,000 people catch their breath with sheer inventiveness. Pele could play and win despite whatever fouling, kicking and cheating he faced. Zidane was an artist who made the game look so incredibly easy and simple with skills that no-one else could master.
Messi and Ronaldo have to improve still further to be included alongside Best, Pele and Zidane and both of them have the chance to become a true great of the game.
It's fairly safe to say that, along with Puskas, Eusebio, Cruyff and Best, that Ronaldo, without a higher class of International team-mates is unlikely to win International honours. So to that end he has to prove and improve himself further than perhaps Pele, Maradona and Zidane - but the flip side of this arguement is that perhaps Messi, with the wealth of Argentinian talent should have won more International honours by now?
In terms of his technical and all round ability I think there is little question now; he surpasses Messi individually in all but passing ability, certainly his only question-mark from a few years ago, his all round vision of the shape of a game is now equal to Messi.
IMHO he can take a team as its talisman and playmaker further than Messi can as Messi's game relies more on very high ability and crucially, similar ability players to himself. Without Iniesta and Xavi would Messi and Barcelona be as successful? Very unlikely, as we are probably to find out in the coming years.
In my opinion Ronaldo has edged slightly above Messi to stand in front of Cruyff, Eusebio, Moore, Puskas and Maradona. Without diminishing Messi, for their careers are ongoing, their next targets are Best, Pele and Zidane.
Best could make a 100,000 people catch their breath with sheer inventiveness. Pele could play and win despite whatever fouling, kicking and cheating he faced. Zidane was an artist who made the game look so incredibly easy and simple with skills that no-one else could master.
Messi and Ronaldo have to improve still further to be included alongside Best, Pele and Zidane and both of them have the chance to become a true great of the game.
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