Discussion
As I have said he can be a footballer again if the club and people involved are happy with it then that is there perogative, but the insinuation that it was a mere blip / mistake and he should be allowed to get on in life as time is served is disrespectful and diminishes the fact that he committed a vile act on a young girl.
Sure he can get on go back to football but should not be allowed to forget or play it off as nothing, nope sorry not in my world at least and I would suspect many others too.
Some pretty despicable s
t was done and enough evidence was present to convict him for rape those are the facts and unfortunately for me I have had the displeasure of dealing with two other so called professional footballers in my previous employment that had done similar things, no remorse and actually believed themselves completely innocent even though evidence was stacked against them.
So as you can see it is not isolated so playing it off as a minor is not the way forward as clearly they believe themselves invincible.
Sure he can get on go back to football but should not be allowed to forget or play it off as nothing, nope sorry not in my world at least and I would suspect many others too.
Some pretty despicable s
t was done and enough evidence was present to convict him for rape those are the facts and unfortunately for me I have had the displeasure of dealing with two other so called professional footballers in my previous employment that had done similar things, no remorse and actually believed themselves completely innocent even though evidence was stacked against them. So as you can see it is not isolated so playing it off as a minor is not the way forward as clearly they believe themselves invincible.
Edited by Busso GTA on Tuesday 11th November 15:26
Busso GTA said:
As I have said he can be a footballer again if the club and people involved are happy with it then that is there perogative, but the insinuation that it was a mere blip / mistake and he should be allowed to get on in life as time is served is disrespectful and diminishes the fact that he committed a vile act on a young girl.
Sure he can get on go back to football but should not be allowed to forget or play it off as nothing, nope sorry not in my world at least and I would suspect many others too, some pretty despicable st was done and enough evidence was present to convict him for rape those are the facts and unfortunately for me I have had the displeasure of dealing with two other so called professional footballers in my previous employment that had done similar things, no remorse and actually believed themselves completely innocent even though evidence was stacked against them, so as you can see it is not isolated so playing it off as a minor is not the way forward as clearly they believe themselves invincible.
Your sentence is even longer than Ched's.Sure he can get on go back to football but should not be allowed to forget or play it off as nothing, nope sorry not in my world at least and I would suspect many others too, some pretty despicable s
t was done and enough evidence was present to convict him for rape those are the facts and unfortunately for me I have had the displeasure of dealing with two other so called professional footballers in my previous employment that had done similar things, no remorse and actually believed themselves completely innocent even though evidence was stacked against them, so as you can see it is not isolated so playing it off as a minor is not the way forward as clearly they believe themselves invincible. Efbe said:
dirty boy said:
I think the pertinent point in the Evans case is that the girl DID NOT say he raped her, the whole case revolved around her going back to the hotel for her lost items, police getting involved and charging him themselves.
Not saying he didn't do it, but he has served his punishment by being in prison and losing part of his life in the process. I don't see the point in then stopping him earning money. This certainly vilification of a man, more because he's a footballer.
I always feel like i'm defending the guy, that's not the case, but I simply don't get this one.
as has been said numerous times. no-one is stopping him going back to work. the question is should someone with this conviction be allowed to work as a footballer.Not saying he didn't do it, but he has served his punishment by being in prison and losing part of his life in the process. I don't see the point in then stopping him earning money. This certainly vilification of a man, more because he's a footballer.
I always feel like i'm defending the guy, that's not the case, but I simply don't get this one.
If he was in a profession whereby trust and working with venerable people was involved, then it's a different story.
McClure said:
First comment underneath the article was more like it for me.Why is nobody who is complaining about Ched Evans issuing The Official List of Professions Criminals Cannot Return To.
There must surely be one that people are referring to pre-umbrage, but nobody is publishing it.
Everyone saying he should do something else? Like what exactly ? What is the perfect job for a recently released convicted rapist. What he didn't wasn't a mistake, it was a crime and a ghastly one at that. He has now served his time, and will continue to do so for a much longer time than people who have committed far more heinous and disgusting crimes (yet are not in the public eye).
Would I like to see him play for my club? Difficult question, I don't know the man. I'm assuming those giving him the chance do and are prepared to give him the benefit of the doubt as he has served his time.
Would I like to see him play for my club? Difficult question, I don't know the man. I'm assuming those giving him the chance do and are prepared to give him the benefit of the doubt as he has served his time.
My take on this is that he was released from prison too early ie the sentence was too short.
Rape is pretty much as bad as it gets in terms of crimes against a person yet the sentences don't reflect this. He shouldn't be playing professional football as he should still be in prison.
Putting all that aside, how do the teams sponsors accept a convicted rapists endorsing their products?
Rape is pretty much as bad as it gets in terms of crimes against a person yet the sentences don't reflect this. He shouldn't be playing professional football as he should still be in prison.
Putting all that aside, how do the teams sponsors accept a convicted rapists endorsing their products?
epom said:
He has now served his time, and will continue to do so for a much longer time than people who have committed far more heinous and disgusting crimes (yet are not in the public eye).
I and hundreds of thousands of other workers in this country have to have regular CRB checks after which a crime like this would mean I would lose everything. My career would end and I'd never be able to work in most jobs again. To suggest he's going to be worse off because he's in the public eye is a little far fetched.
Edited by Blaster72 on Wednesday 12th November 13:21
epom said:
Everyone saying he should do something else? Like what exactly ? What is the perfect job for a recently released convicted rapist. What he didn't wasn't a mistake, it was a crime and a ghastly one at that. He has now served his time, and will continue to do so for a much longer time than people who have committed far more heinous and disgusting crimes (yet are not in the public eye).
Would I like to see him play for my club? Difficult question, I don't know the man. I'm assuming those giving him the chance do and are prepared to give him the benefit of the doubt as he has served his time.
I'm comfortable with him serving his time, i'm comfortable with a rapist or any other criminal being rehabilitated.Would I like to see him play for my club? Difficult question, I don't know the man. I'm assuming those giving him the chance do and are prepared to give him the benefit of the doubt as he has served his time.
What I have a problem with is despite evans being convicted by a jury who also saw the video evidence of him committing the crime, he still maintains his innocence.
He should not be in a position where he could potentially be a role model to young men where he cannot accept his wrong doing.
Blaster72 said:
epom said:
He has now served his time, and will continue to do so for a much longer time than people who have committed far more heinous and disgusting crimes (yet are not in the public eye).
I and hundreds of thousands of other workers in this country have to have regular CRB checks after which a crime like this would mean I would lose everything. My career would end and I'd never be able to work in most jobs again. To suggest he's going to be worse off because he's in the public eye is a little far fetched.
Edited by Blaster72 on Wednesday 12th November 13:21
I would lose the profession I've studied for and worked in since I was 18. He is free to learn to be a bricky, or plumber, or chippy, or any other vocation that other ex-cons do.
epom said:
Everyone saying he should do something else? Like what exactly ? What is the perfect job for a recently released convicted rapist. What he didn't wasn't a mistake, it was a crime and a ghastly one at that. He has now served his time, and will continue to do so for a much longer time than people who have committed far more heinous and disgusting crimes (yet are not in the public eye).
Would I like to see him play for my club? Difficult question, I don't know the man. I'm assuming those giving him the chance do and are prepared to give him the benefit of the doubt as he has served his time.
factory work/ labourer/ picker/ packer whatever, I don't care, that's his problem, but there are plenty of jobs out there that would probably accept him.Would I like to see him play for my club? Difficult question, I don't know the man. I'm assuming those giving him the chance do and are prepared to give him the benefit of the doubt as he has served his time.
rolemodel to thousands of children, fantastically rich from proceeds from supporters money who have no choice in who plays for the club they have supported all their lives and is most likely a family tradition? no
Blaster72 said:
To suggest he's going to be worse off because he's in the public eye is a little far fetched.
You have plainly never been to a football match and heard the crowd picking on even the slightest character flaw in an opposing player and exploiting it mercilessly. They will have a field day with Ched Evans.Edited by Blaster72 on Wednesday 12th November 13:21
A few other things seem to be being forgotten:
1. a footballer is not an automatic role model; a footballer may become a role model if his behaviour is exemplary, but no-one looks up to an idiot, even if he can kick a ball, and, those who think otherwise have invariably never spent time watching the game and talking to supporters;
2. whatever people may think of his sentence, we live in a democracy where the law is administered by the Courts, who convict and pass sentence; the reason that it remains that way is because that is the best way to get justice - pandering to baying mobs or politicians seeking re-election is what 3rd World countries do;
3. Evans has served the sentence set by the Courts, no-one else is entitled to administer additional punishment by banning him from his former employment;
4. Our justice system only works if offenders can be rehabilitated, and that is best done by reintegrating them into society and having them pay their way;
5. there is no reason for him not to take up exactly his former employment - he will not come into contact with his victim or potential victims;
6. Mr Evans continues to protest his innocence and there are sufficient grounds to doubt the safety of his conviction to have his case reviewed by the relevant authority - we will have to wait to see what they say on the matter.
Bluebarge said:
You have plainly never been to a football match and heard the crowd picking on even the slightest character flaw in an opposing player and exploiting it mercilessly. They will have a field day with Ched Evans.
A few other things seem to be being forgotten:
1. a footballer is not an automatic role model; a footballer may become a role model if his behaviour is exemplary, but no-one looks up to an idiot, even if he can kick a ball, and, those who think otherwise have invariably never spent time watching the game and talking to supporters;
2. whatever people may think of his sentence, we live in a democracy where the law is administered by the Courts, who convict and pass sentence; the reason that it remains that way is because that is the best way to get justice - pandering to baying mobs or politicians seeking re-election is what 3rd World countries do;
3. Evans has served the sentence set by the Courts, no-one else is entitled to administer additional punishment by banning him from his former employment;
4. Our justice system only works if offenders can be rehabilitated, and that is best done by reintegrating them into society and having them pay their way;
5. there is no reason for him not to take up exactly his former employment - he will not come into contact with his victim or potential victims;
6. Mr Evans continues to protest his innocence and there are sufficient grounds to doubt the safety of his conviction to have his case reviewed by the relevant authority - we will have to wait to see what they say on the matter.
as has been posted numerous times before...A few other things seem to be being forgotten:
1. a footballer is not an automatic role model; a footballer may become a role model if his behaviour is exemplary, but no-one looks up to an idiot, even if he can kick a ball, and, those who think otherwise have invariably never spent time watching the game and talking to supporters;
2. whatever people may think of his sentence, we live in a democracy where the law is administered by the Courts, who convict and pass sentence; the reason that it remains that way is because that is the best way to get justice - pandering to baying mobs or politicians seeking re-election is what 3rd World countries do;
3. Evans has served the sentence set by the Courts, no-one else is entitled to administer additional punishment by banning him from his former employment;
4. Our justice system only works if offenders can be rehabilitated, and that is best done by reintegrating them into society and having them pay their way;
5. there is no reason for him not to take up exactly his former employment - he will not come into contact with his victim or potential victims;
6. Mr Evans continues to protest his innocence and there are sufficient grounds to doubt the safety of his conviction to have his case reviewed by the relevant authority - we will have to wait to see what they say on the matter.
In many if not most other professions there are certain things you can do wrong that mean you can never return to this line of work, sentence passed or not.
I for one can never have a bad credit record, kill anyone, rape, steal, abh, gbh etc etc. and ever think of returning to my career.
and he will come into contact with hundreds of people, support staff, other players, youth team who have no say in any of this.
and footballers are definately role models. without doubt. which other actual definate real people do children want to be which they can single out the person's name of. Named football shirts should surely be the best indication of this.
And why should he get rehabilitated ito the same job? If my colleague raped someone, I wouldn't work with them, served their time or not. They can go and get another job, the types of which have been discussed before
Bluebarge said:
You have plainly never been to a football match and heard the crowd picking on even the slightest character flaw in an opposing player and exploiting it mercilessly. They will have a field day with Ched Evans.
My heart bleeds for him. If he was still in prison being punished and rehabilitated he wouldn't have to suffer some harsh words.Happily he isn't actually signed up yet, I'm still holding out for the club to see sense.
Efbe said:
as has been posted numerous times before...
In many if not most other professions there are certain things you can do wrong that mean you can never return to this line of work, sentence passed or not.
I for one can never have a bad credit record, kill anyone, rape, steal, abh, gbh etc etc. and ever think of returning to my career.
and he will come into contact with hundreds of people, support staff, other players, youth team who have no say in any of this.
and footballers are definately role models. without doubt. which other actual definate real people do children want to be which they can single out the person's name of. Named football shirts should surely be the best indication of this.
And why should he get rehabilitated ito the same job? If my colleague raped someone, I wouldn't work with them, served their time or not. They can go and get another job, the types of which have been discussed before
1. the only reason for not returning to a career is if there is a good reason not to - in jobs requiring honesty, a theft conviction will disbar you, rape, anything involving women or kids; football involves running around a field with a load of other blokes - there is nothing to suggest Ched Evans will present a danger to anyone he will come into contact with in a professional capacity; therefore your point is otiose;In many if not most other professions there are certain things you can do wrong that mean you can never return to this line of work, sentence passed or not.
I for one can never have a bad credit record, kill anyone, rape, steal, abh, gbh etc etc. and ever think of returning to my career.
and he will come into contact with hundreds of people, support staff, other players, youth team who have no say in any of this.
and footballers are definately role models. without doubt. which other actual definate real people do children want to be which they can single out the person's name of. Named football shirts should surely be the best indication of this.
And why should he get rehabilitated ito the same job? If my colleague raped someone, I wouldn't work with them, served their time or not. They can go and get another job, the types of which have been discussed before
2. footballers are not role models; they chase round a field after a ball - small dogs do this in your local park - are they also role models?; certain players become role models by their behaviour - Messi or Ronaldo - definite role models; Joey Barton? - erm, no;
3. you neatly side-stepped the point about the safety of his conviction;
4. our justice system is based on the principle of rehabilitation - not one of the opportunistic and emotional arguments surrounding Ched Evans is strong enough to over-turn that principle.
5. don't let me separate you from your pitchfork - you carry on.
Bluebarge said:
3. you neatly side-stepped the point about the safety of his conviction;
4. our justice system is based on the principle of rehabilitation - not one of the opportunistic and emotional arguments surrounding Ched Evans is strong enough to over-turn that principle.
He already had two attempts at appeals quashed.4. our justice system is based on the principle of rehabilitation - not one of the opportunistic and emotional arguments surrounding Ched Evans is strong enough to over-turn that principle.
He has not been rehabilitated and still denies he did anything wrong.
Blaster72 said:
He already had two attempts at appeals quashed.
He has not been rehabilitated and still denies he did anything wrong.
do we know why he denies wrong-doing? IIRC this is quite an unusual case in as much as the woman concerned didn't ask that charges were brought (among other weirdness)?He has not been rehabilitated and still denies he did anything wrong.
irocfan said:
Blaster72 said:
He already had two attempts at appeals quashed.
He has not been rehabilitated and still denies he did anything wrong.
do we know why he denies wrong-doing? IIRC this is quite an unusual case in as much as the woman concerned didn't ask that charges were brought (among other weirdness)?He has not been rehabilitated and still denies he did anything wrong.
An appeal court judge refused leave to appeal in 2012 and a panel of judges gave them same in Nov 2012. He's now hired a better legal team for a third appeal over the conviction.
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