Discussion
irocfan said:
Kitchski said:
He's supposed to be a role model.
no he's not - he's supposed to be some t
t who kicks a football around and gets paid handsomely for it. I suspect that it's the 'handsomely' that has most people's knickers in a twist king hope not!Based on the interviews and quotes from footballers, not many would be in roles of any great responsibility if they had not been blessed with footballing skills.
IMO Evans should be allowed to get back to work, and I would be happy if my team signed him, they couldn't afford him so it is a moot point.
I had no idea who any of the companies who sponsored Oldham.
Now I read quite a few have all publicly announced they'd withdraw.
Now are they threatening to withdraw as they genuinely feel the need, or are they using the opportunity to get their names on headline news at the expense of Evans?
Would anyone stop using a company if they continued sponsoring Oldham if they signed Evans?
Now I read quite a few have all publicly announced they'd withdraw.
Now are they threatening to withdraw as they genuinely feel the need, or are they using the opportunity to get their names on headline news at the expense of Evans?
Would anyone stop using a company if they continued sponsoring Oldham if they signed Evans?
Corpulent Tosser said:
irocfan said:
Kitchski said:
He's supposed to be a role model.
no he's not - he's supposed to be some tt who kicks a football around and gets paid handsomely for it. I suspect that it's the 'handsomely' that has most people's knickers in a twist goldblum said:
Corpulent Tosser said:
irocfan said:
Kitchski said:
He's supposed to be a role model.
no he's not - he's supposed to be some tt who kicks a football around and gets paid handsomely for it. I suspect that it's the 'handsomely' that has most people's knickers in a twist As proven on BBC this morning the fact that he's "shown no remorse" is also a big factor with those who don't want him to play for their / any / don't have a club but are damn well going to moan about it.
He's appealing the conviction so why would he show remorse.
Because the rent a mob lot are moving from club to club every time there's a rumour Evans will sign I don't think this will be resolved until after his appeal is heard.
He's appealing the conviction so why would he show remorse.
Because the rent a mob lot are moving from club to club every time there's a rumour Evans will sign I don't think this will be resolved until after his appeal is heard.
anonymous said:
[redacted]
Hmm, suspect you have not much experience of juries - nor do I, for similar reasons, but tales I have heard from friends/relatives who have done jury service are somewhat depressing - jury members deciding on a whim, not listening to all the evidence, just wanting to deliver any verdict as quickly as possible so that they could get home etc, etc. The jury system is not perfect, by any means.Besides, the fact that the CCRB are looking into this case would appear to suggest that there "may" be reasonable doubt as to the safety of his conviction. We'll have to wait for the CCRB's judgement on that.
anonymous said:
[redacted]
What is the massive difference in requirements for conviction? Both are criminal offences and if the evidence is suffice, then a guilty verdict should be found for each scenario.Drink driving is clear cut. There is a set limit of alcohol you are allowed, if you are over that, you've committed an offence.
Rape isn't as clear cut. Like the case in question here, one person was assumed to have been given consent, the other was assumed not to have been given consent.
I agree that loads of people on a regular basis commit drink driving offences and there is no further knock on effects. However if you do something as bad as killing someone, then you have to be held accountable for your earlier actions.
You can punch someone in the face and only be guilty of assault. If you punch him in the face and it results in their death, then it's a lot more than just assault.
Saying loads of other people drink drive and get away with it without issue isn't a defence.
So is saying loads of other guys have sex with drunken girls doesn't excuse rape either. Every case has to be taken on its own merits.
As I said above, loads of people have drunken sex every weekend and wake up the following morning ashamed, can't remember the other person's name or half of what happened.
If all the girls made a police complaint, then far more guys would be hauled before the court. In the eyes of the law that counts as rape as the girl was incapable of giving consent. However like the majority of rape allegations, they don't go anywhere as there isn't enough evidence or proof.
The only people that could know the real story is the people involved. However even they don't really know fully what happened as they were under the influence of alcohol and unsure what happened themselves.
Have you ever had a night where you've had too much, can't remember something you've said or done, yet people around you can?
I did read some of the case notes and watched the video and it didn't seem clear cut to me. Maybe I'm another internet idiot or missing the full evidence that was put in front of the jury that made them sure they made the right decision.
That said aren't the jury just 12 people off the street? Surely like us they could have a difference of opinion, or worse still maybe a bit biased?
Footballers get it tougher than many due to jealously. People assume they are all thick trouble makers who think they can do what they want as they are rich.
Many assume they are guilty before the trial and how often in recent years has a player been found innocent of an offence, yet the outcry is, it is a fix, or a hotshot lawyer got him off, one rule for one......?
This case is now the reverse. He was found guilty and they don't want to hear otherwise, although they won't accept when other footballers are found innocent for other offences.
Like is say, I've not seen enough to make me 100% sure. I've seen enough dodgy accusations to make me always think things aren't always as clear cut as people may want to believe.
Edited by Driver101 on Monday 5th January 14:46
goldblum said:
The fact that sports stars are viewed as role models is well documented, although Evans has to be one of the lesser 'stars'. The behaviour of these people can have a strong influence on kids and teenagers and the last thing you want is reinforcement of violence, racism, bad language and poor behaviour in front of impressionable fans. Rape's not good either.
People like Messi, Ronaldo, and Neymar are the footballers kids look up to. A League One striker who changes club every season isn't one. Anyway, the media thinks that if kids like Ched Evans, that will automatically mean they think rape is okay.John Terry is a good example. He IS looked up to, and a role model being such a successful and loyal servant to club and country. Does this mean that any kid who has a shirt with his name on the back thinks it's acceptable to call people "f
king black s"? North West Tom said:
People like Messi, Ronaldo, and Neymar are the footballers kids look up to.
This fundamental assumption is wrong if you mean kids don't also look up to lower league players I'm afraid. Role models are taken from every strata of sport, not just the top. Players are observed and they're actions can be copied if it's not made clear they've behaved badly. If nothing is done it's called negative reinforcement. Type R Tom said:
It all comes down to money; people don’t want to see him earning, to 90% of the population, excellent money. I can’t think of another time when a large group of people have objected so strongly to someone convicted of a crime being employed.
It would be a full time job setting up petitions against the employment of every person how had been convicted of horrible crimes.
Most people convicted of horrible crimes would be bloody lucky to get any job so it's not just that simple. It would be a full time job setting up petitions against the employment of every person how had been convicted of horrible crimes.
What sticks in people's craw a bit is that footballers, unlike many other occupations, seem to be able to waltz back into a lucrative playing career after these horrible crimes. Most of joe public would never work again.
Football puts winning and money above all/any other values and some people don't like the look of that much.
Corpulent Tosser said:
irocfan said:
Kitchski said:
He's supposed to be a role model.
no he's not - he's supposed to be some tt who kicks a football around and gets paid handsomely for it. I suspect that it's the 'handsomely' that has most people's knickers in a twist king hope not!Based on the interviews and quotes from footballers, not many would be in roles of any great responsibility if they had not been blessed with footballing skills.
IMO Evans should be allowed to get back to work, and I would be happy if my team signed him, they couldn't afford him so it is a moot point.
Simple fact for me (presented with the limited evidence I have to make my assumptions) is that the
's a rapist, so I wouldn't want to know him, associate with him, or employ him, and further to that, if I was an employer in the public eye then that's something else to guard against.. There may be mitigating circumstances in his case, and I have mixed feelings about the reliability of the justice system, but on the face of it, he's a rapist - he can get to fk.There is a way out of this.
Until his appeal is heard every penny he earns as a player is put into a suspense account. Then, if he wins his appeal he gets all of the money, if he loses the victim gets the cash which ought to be a good few £££'s.
If he loses then the club reserves the right to terminate his contract immediately.
Until his appeal is heard every penny he earns as a player is put into a suspense account. Then, if he wins his appeal he gets all of the money, if he loses the victim gets the cash which ought to be a good few £££'s.
If he loses then the club reserves the right to terminate his contract immediately.
Funny how this thread brings out of of the "apologists" or "bleeding heart liberals" or whatever such people get called on this site.
Anyway, nobody is stopping this guy earning a living. I'm sure someone will show him the way to the job centre. The issue is that footballers have their names printed in the programmes and on the back of their shirt when they play with thousands of people watching. And each club should have the right to decide who plays for them. As far as I can tell, he's not been banned and is allowed to play football if he wants to. So it's up to clubs to decide who they want in their shirts. And up to sponsors to decide who they want to be wearing shirts with their names on.
Anyway, nobody is stopping this guy earning a living. I'm sure someone will show him the way to the job centre. The issue is that footballers have their names printed in the programmes and on the back of their shirt when they play with thousands of people watching. And each club should have the right to decide who plays for them. As far as I can tell, he's not been banned and is allowed to play football if he wants to. So it's up to clubs to decide who they want in their shirts. And up to sponsors to decide who they want to be wearing shirts with their names on.
Just seen this on the news so come for a nose in here.
Roll model seems to mooted about a lot..........
Rooney had an evening with a hooker, I don't see the kids lining up for that one.
But we are talking rape here, so a little diff.
Do I think he should play again, im not sure.
And as for them always saying convicted rapist blah blah that bolis my piss also.
Roll model seems to mooted about a lot..........
Rooney had an evening with a hooker, I don't see the kids lining up for that one.
But we are talking rape here, so a little diff.
Do I think he should play again, im not sure.
And as for them always saying convicted rapist blah blah that bolis my piss also.
It seems people agree that he should be able to move on, just not even playing football at a level they pay next to no attention. I bet 99%+ people couldn't name a single current Oldham player without Googling.
Let's say that he does end up in a supermarket, clothes shop or fast food restaurant on minimum wage. Right at the bottom of the pile where people want to drive him.
Would you be happy if your young daughter ended up working alongside him?
I'd be far more worried about him working in close proximity to young impressionable girls who will still be impressed with his footballer tag.
They'll have to work closely with him and far more likely to build a bond than watching him running about on a bit of grass every week.
Let's say that he does end up in a supermarket, clothes shop or fast food restaurant on minimum wage. Right at the bottom of the pile where people want to drive him.
Would you be happy if your young daughter ended up working alongside him?
I'd be far more worried about him working in close proximity to young impressionable girls who will still be impressed with his footballer tag.
They'll have to work closely with him and far more likely to build a bond than watching him running about on a bit of grass every week.
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