Ched Evans

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Discussion

anonymous-user

53 months

Friday 17th October 2014
quotequote all
dirty boy said:
Wow, reading the articles

"Nor did the police have a complaint of rape. Regardless of this, both men gave a full account of their actions to the police. On 26th July 2011 the police charged both Clayton and Ched with rape"

Odd.
Where's that from? There were a complaint.





Bit of a Unit

6,664 posts

196 months

Friday 17th October 2014
quotequote all
dirty boy said:
It's one of those cases where we'll sadly never really know the exact facts and circumstances.

It's very strange he's had such strong support from his girlfriend, my missus would have no doubt knifed me in the heart and cut my cock off if she didn't believe my version of events.

It's also quite strange he's maintained his innocence as a big fat huge heartfelt apology and admittance of guilt and poor drunken judgement would have softened everything immeasurably with the media if not the judgement.
Good point in your last statement. He is due to make a personal statement next week. He's not said a word publicly yet but he's already been judged by the usual tub thumping dungaree wearing feminists before even being given a chance to express remorse.

From a male perspective does this mean if I pull a drunk bird, shag her, admit to it, only for her to wake up with a thick head and some regret, she can then deny all knowledge of it and then accuse me of rape and I get 5-6 years?

I'd like to see anonominity on both sides in rape trials until all appeals are exhausted.

Lost soul

8,712 posts

181 months

Friday 17th October 2014
quotequote all
Bit of a Unit said:
Good point in your last statement. He is due to make a personal statement next week.
Is Max Clifford representing him ,,, oh no wait ......

Prawnboy

1,326 posts

146 months

Friday 17th October 2014
quotequote all
dirty boy said:
It's very strange he's had such strong support from his girlfriend, my missus would have no doubt knifed me in the heart and cut my cock off if she didn't believe my version of events.
this is the strangest part for me, rape conviction aside, if i admitted to my missus i went 2's up on a drunk girl at a premier inn and then nipped out the fire escape home, she'd kick me out in a second.
i guess she now knows he would be too st scared to cheat on her again.

hornetrider

Original Poster:

63,161 posts

204 months

Friday 17th October 2014
quotequote all
Well, it's like Rooney's mrs after he was banging the grannies isn't it. The streets are paved with gold and that buys a lot of forgiveness.

nick s

1,368 posts

216 months

Friday 17th October 2014
quotequote all
Bit of a Unit said:
dirty boy said:
It's one of those cases where we'll sadly never really know the exact facts and circumstances.

It's very strange he's had such strong support from his girlfriend, my missus would have no doubt knifed me in the heart and cut my cock off if she didn't believe my version of events.

It's also quite strange he's maintained his innocence as a big fat huge heartfelt apology and admittance of guilt and poor drunken judgement would have softened everything immeasurably with the media if not the judgement.
Good point in your last statement. He is due to make a personal statement next week. He's not said a word publicly yet but he's already been judged by the usual tub thumping dungaree wearing feminists before even being given a chance to express remorse.

From a male perspective does this mean if I pull a drunk bird, shag her, admit to it, only for her to wake up with a thick head and some regret, she can then deny all knowledge of it and then accuse me of rape and I get 5-6 years?

I'd like to see anonominity on both sides in rape trials until all appeals are exhausted.
I actually spent some time reading the whole court report for this trial. Did anyone realise that they both left the hotel room, and the girl woke up naked and alone the next morning? To me it just screams that she had a bit of a memory blur, and felt used and was angry, so decided to report it. I have a feeling that if one of them had stayed over and woken up with her, none of this would have happened. I could be wrong of course... Just my 2p....

oldnbold

1,280 posts

145 months

Friday 17th October 2014
quotequote all
hornetrider said:
Well, it's like Rooney's mrs after he was banging the grannies isn't it. The streets are paved with gold and that buys a lot of forgiveness.
But the girl friends father is a multi millionaire, so I'm guessing she's not standing by him for his money.

Interesting to read however that the club continued to pay his £20k a week salary whilst he was in jail untill his contract finished.

dirty boy

14,688 posts

208 months

Friday 17th October 2014
quotequote all
La Liga said:
dirty boy said:
Wow, reading the articles

"Nor did the police have a complaint of rape. Regardless of this, both men gave a full account of their actions to the police. On 26th July 2011 the police charged both Clayton and Ched with rape"

Odd.
Where's that from? There were a complaint.
She complained that she'd had her drink tampered with and had lost her bag and phone. That's what prompted the police to follow up.

Prawnboy

1,326 posts

146 months

Friday 17th October 2014
quotequote all
nick s said:
I actually spent some time reading the whole court report for this trial. Did anyone realise that they both left the hotel room, and the girl woke up naked and alone the next morning? To me it just screams that she had a bit of a memory blur, and felt used and was angry, so decided to report it. I have a feeling that if one of them had stayed over and woken up with her, none of this would have happened. I could be wrong of course... Just my 2p....
I read it & thought it odd that he booked a hotel room in his mates name that they seemed to have no intention on staying in as they both admitted to leaving the room they had rented after having sex with her to go back to his house.

anonymous-user

53 months

Saturday 18th October 2014
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oldnbold said:
Interesting to read however that the club continued to pay his £20k a week salary whilst he was in jail untill his contract finished.
I guess it depends on the contract as to whether or not they had to.

dirty boy said:
She complained that she'd had her drink tampered with and had lost her bag and phone. That's what prompted the police to follow up.
A few basic Who, What, Why, Where, When and How (5 WH) questions would quickly lead to knowing about the full circumstances.

The quote from whichever article you quoted suggested she had not given a statement / forensic evidence and they were charged without these things.



KingNothing

3,159 posts

152 months

Saturday 18th October 2014
quotequote all
dirty boy said:
She complained that she'd had her drink tampered with and had lost her bag and phone. That's what prompted the police to follow up.
I don't know if it's relevent in this case, but the old drink tampered with routine, I've heard it loads of times, usually by people who I've seen in clubs and pubs earlier in the night, necking shots like they're going out of fashion and drinking everything else like a fish, then roll around later on that they've been "spiked", no love, you've just drank far too much fking alcohol than your body can handle by trying to act a big girl, go home and sleep it off.

Mill Wheel

6,149 posts

195 months

Saturday 18th October 2014
quotequote all
KingNothing said:
dirty boy said:
She complained that she'd had her drink tampered with and had lost her bag and phone. That's what prompted the police to follow up.
I don't know if it's relevent in this case, but the old drink tampered with routine, I've heard it loads of times, usually by people who I've seen in clubs and pubs earlier in the night, necking shots like they're going out of fashion and drinking everything else like a fish, then roll around later on that they've been "spiked", no love, you've just drank far too much fking alcohol than your body can handle by trying to act a big girl, go home and sleep it off.
1. Since they met her in the kebab shop, they obviously had nothing to do with her drinking in the nightclub.
2. When the medical tests were done, it showed traces of cocaine and cannabis in her system, but not from the night in question.
3. Who gives a girl oral sex if she is unconscious as alleged?

The other question being asked on Shed Evans web page is why the police didn't examine her phone, or the tweets alleged to have been made after the event, and when the night receptionist listened at the door, he said he heard what sounded like a normal couple and had no cause to have any concerns.

I assume they can back this up having made the claim so publicly.

Mill Wheel

6,149 posts

195 months

Saturday 18th October 2014
quotequote all
Senior Crown Prosecutor for the Crown Prosecution Service in Wales
Nita Dowell said:
"The Crown Prosecution Service respects the verdicts of the jury in relation to both defendants.

"Ched Evans took advantage of a vulnerable young woman who was in no fit state to consent to sexual activity. He did so knowingly and with a total disregard for her physical or emotional well being.

"It is a myth that being vulnerable through alcohol consumption means that a victim is somehow responsible for being raped. The law is clear; being vulnerable through drink or drugs does not imply consent.

"Rape is an extremely damaging offence, but it can also be one of the most misunderstood and difficult to prosecute. The Crown Prosecution Service, in partnership with the police and other agencies, is working hard to help combat and dispel the myths and stereotypes that exist around the issue of rape.

"We want victims to feel that they can report an offence to the police, confident in the knowledge that their complaint will be taken seriously and they will be treated with respect."
If they respect the jurys decision in respect of Clayton McDonald, then they must accept they prosecuted him but the jury showed them they were wrong?

In DLTs case when the jury could not agree, the CPS went back and had a second go - successfully.

I find it worrying that the CPS and the court system are the only ones allowed to keep trying until they get the verdict they want, while the defence is refused leave to appeal.

anonymous-user

53 months

Saturday 18th October 2014
quotequote all
Mill Wheel said:
If they respect the jurys decision in respect of Clayton McDonald, then they must accept they prosecuted him but the jury showed them they were wrong?
It's not about "right" and "wrong". It's about satisfying the evidential threshold to prosecute and allowing a jury to decide.

Mill Wheel said:
I find it worrying that the CPS and the court system are the only ones allowed to keep trying until they get the verdict they want, while the defence is refused leave to appeal.
They aren't allowed to "keep going". They'll usually only do a second trial if the jury is undecided.

Specific circumstances for a re-trial. Just like there are specific circumstances for an appeal.


hornetrider

Original Poster:

63,161 posts

204 months

Saturday 18th October 2014
quotequote all
Looks like his case review by the CCRB is being fast tracked. Interesting.

http://www.theguardian.com/society/2014/oct/18/leg...

anonymous-user

53 months

Sunday 19th October 2014
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I think that's reasonable given the public interest, or at least how much attention it's receiving.

It's going to be pretty unsatisfactory outcome if he has his conviction quashed and has missed a large chunk of his career.

KingNothing

3,159 posts

152 months

Sunday 19th October 2014
quotequote all
La Liga said:
It's going to be pretty unsatisfactory outcome if he has his conviction quashed and has missed a large chunk of his career.
Then of course there's the spouting of; "he did it, he just got away with it" afterwards as well rolleyes

Mill Wheel

6,149 posts

195 months

Sunday 19th October 2014
quotequote all
La Liga said:
I think that's reasonable given the public interest, or at least how much attention it's receiving.

It's going to be pretty unsatisfactory outcome if he has his conviction quashed and has missed a large chunk of his career.
It's not like they don't have previous experience in offering abject apologies...
Stefan Kiszko served 16 years in prison after he was wrongly convicted of sexual assault and murder.
Kiszko was released in 1992 after forensic evidence showed that he could not have committed the murder!

anonymous-user

53 months

Sunday 19th October 2014
quotequote all
Who do you mean by "they"?

over_the_hill

3,185 posts

245 months

Monday 20th October 2014
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hornetrider said:
There seems to be a lot of hoo-ha about him returning to football. Now, I reckon rape is an absolutely hideous crime. My own view is being castrated would be lenient to perps, and if it ever happened to my daughter then god help me because I don't know what I'd do.

However the law of the land is to do your time, and then live your life when it's done. And forgive me if I am wrong, but the man has done his time.

Is football/sport some sort of unique case which lives outside the law, and one which morals apply? Should sportspeople be perfect role models? Because the hand wringers would have him picking up a P45 for the rest of his life.
However, this is not necessarily true. Do your time and return to life - yes. But not necessarily the 'same' life.

If he was a Doctor or working in the medical profession would he be allowed to return to his former job - probably not.
If he was a teacher or working in education would he be allowed to return to his former job - probably not.
If he was a Social Worker or similar profession would he be allowed to return to his former job - probably not.

So there should be no expectation that life continues exactly as it did before.