Discussion
Driver101 said:
She actively took part and encouraged sex with him, but then couldn't remember in the morning. At the time she appeared perfectly fine. That's the same as what Evan's defence is.
It also raises the doubt about how traumatised she was by the rape. Would a rape victim be back out sleeping with guys right away if a rape have such a dramatic effect on them?
On the first point, the scenario is comparable to Evans' friend that was aquitted at the first trial. It's not relevant to Evans'.It also raises the doubt about how traumatised she was by the rape. Would a rape victim be back out sleeping with guys right away if a rape have such a dramatic effect on them?
On the second, does that make it any more or less a crime? I didn't cry when someone broke into my car, should I?
Getting a second key, and sneaking in whilst under cover of darkness = rapey as F imo.
It's not brutal disgusting rape, but it does look very much like technical/non-consensual rape.
I very much doubt McDonald mentioned to her that his friend would be sneaking in a bit later to join in?
The whole thing is disgusting.
It's not brutal disgusting rape, but it does look very much like technical/non-consensual rape.
I very much doubt McDonald mentioned to her that his friend would be sneaking in a bit later to join in?
The whole thing is disgusting.
Evanivitch said:
On the first point, the scenario is comparable to Evans' friend that was aquitted at the first trial. It's not relevant to Evans'.
On the second, does that make it any more or less a crime? I didn't cry when someone broke into my car, should I?
McDonald wasn't aquitted as the girl had a history of forgetting events, he was found not guilty as the girl had agreed to go home with him. On the second, does that make it any more or less a crime? I didn't cry when someone broke into my car, should I?
The evidence given by McDonald and Evans was that the girl was a willing participant in what happened in the room. She agreed to the threesome and actively took part. The issue is come the morning she suddenly forgot after appearing to be OK at the time.
Sleeping with a guy two weeks after the event isn't a crime and doesn't have any bearing what happened in the room. It does look odd that she's claimed her life was ruined, yet two weeks later she's back in the same club and chasing after men. That's not consistent with a traumatised rape victim.
Ched hasn't painted himself in a bright light there.
No question of was he allowed to participate.
Light was off.
She was smashed off her face.
He then leaves out the back door (which is I guess normal if you just cheated on your Mrs. I guess there'd be a bit of guilt) to then walk to his mothers house. Was a long way away from the Premier Inn when I knew Ched back in school. Who knows he might have bought her a house and she may have moved closer to Rhuddlan.
I think there must be more evidence to come as what the witness said today isn't enough to clear him is it surely?
No question of was he allowed to participate.
Light was off.
She was smashed off her face.
He then leaves out the back door (which is I guess normal if you just cheated on your Mrs. I guess there'd be a bit of guilt) to then walk to his mothers house. Was a long way away from the Premier Inn when I knew Ched back in school. Who knows he might have bought her a house and she may have moved closer to Rhuddlan.
I think there must be more evidence to come as what the witness said today isn't enough to clear him is it surely?
Driver101 said:
McDonald wasn't aquitted as the girl had a history of forgetting events, he was found not guilty as the girl had agreed to go home with him.
The evidence given by McDonald and Evans was that the girl was a willing participant in what happened in the room. She agreed to the threesome and actively took part. The issue is come the morning she suddenly forgot after appearing to be OK at the time.
Sleeping with a guy two weeks after the event isn't a crime and doesn't have any bearing what happened in the room. It does look odd that she's claimed her life was ruined, yet two weeks later she's back in the same club and chasing after men. That's not consistent with a traumatised rape victim.
Exactly, McDonald met the girl prior, under what could be considered normal circumstances. There's still a question of consent amongst thay but clearly there's sufficient evidence that it was given. Someone later joining in is certainly not normal and doesn't appear to have been something she was aware of when she went to the room with McDonald.The evidence given by McDonald and Evans was that the girl was a willing participant in what happened in the room. She agreed to the threesome and actively took part. The issue is come the morning she suddenly forgot after appearing to be OK at the time.
Sleeping with a guy two weeks after the event isn't a crime and doesn't have any bearing what happened in the room. It does look odd that she's claimed her life was ruined, yet two weeks later she's back in the same club and chasing after men. That's not consistent with a traumatised rape victim.
I assume you're an expert on sexual trauma then? Or do you hold some morale position that rape victims should not partake in sexual activity for a period of time determined by yourself?
BlueFiestaST said:
Ched hasn't painted himself in a bright light there.
No question of was he allowed to participate.
Light was off.
She was smashed off her face.
He then leaves out the back door (which is I guess normal if you just cheated on your Mrs. I guess there'd be a bit of guilt) to then walk to his mothers house. Was a long way away from the Premier Inn when I knew Ched back in school. Who knows he might have bought her a house and she may have moved closer to Rhuddlan.
I think there must be more evidence to come as what the witness said today isn't enough to clear him is it surely?
Ched's from St Asaph right? The walk from Rhuddland rou nd about to St Asaph is perfectly reasonable on a beer scooter having just done the dirty on your missus, perfectly reasonable.No question of was he allowed to participate.
Light was off.
She was smashed off her face.
He then leaves out the back door (which is I guess normal if you just cheated on your Mrs. I guess there'd be a bit of guilt) to then walk to his mothers house. Was a long way away from the Premier Inn when I knew Ched back in school. Who knows he might have bought her a house and she may have moved closer to Rhuddlan.
I think there must be more evidence to come as what the witness said today isn't enough to clear him is it surely?
This is a sad story all round, nobody appears to have come out of it particularly well and to be honest even the alleged victim would probably have been better served had this been dealt with in another way.
Evanivitch said:
Exactly, McDonald met the girl prior, under what could be considered normal circumstances. There's still a question of consent amongst thay but clearly there's sufficient evidence that it was given. Someone later joining in is certainly not normal and doesn't appear to have been something she was aware of when she went to the room with McDonald.
I assume you're an expert on sexual trauma then? Or do you hold some morale position that rape victims should not partake in sexual activity for a period of time determined by yourself?
A girl rolling about on a kebab shop floor, the kebab shop owner saying she was really drunk, is normal circumstances to meet someone? I assume you're an expert on sexual trauma then? Or do you hold some morale position that rape victims should not partake in sexual activity for a period of time determined by yourself?
No I'm not an expert on sexual trauma. I'm giving my opinion. There's no need to be a smart arse. It's my opinion that's not normal behaviour. I'm sure it's one that most people would share. Her twitter/Facebook account after the incident was also not what many people considered normal behaviour. That's part of the reason she got a lot of bad attention.
You're giving me a hard time for voicing my opinion about something not being normal, yet your able to give your opinion about something you don't see as normal. Nothing amazes me what people get up to in their sex lives. A lot of people have little or no boundaries.
Edited by Driver101 on Tuesday 11th October 20:59
Whilst there are real people involved we have to say that this is a really interesting case about the nature of consent.
I posted earlier about trying to educate young footballers about how to try and manage these situations on a night out but I suppose the same should be said about young women as well.
This type of situation is a s
t storm waiting to happen and that's without being morally judgemental, and whatever happens I hope it makes others think twice.
I posted earlier about trying to educate young footballers about how to try and manage these situations on a night out but I suppose the same should be said about young women as well.
This type of situation is a s
t storm waiting to happen and that's without being morally judgemental, and whatever happens I hope it makes others think twice.FredClogs said:
BlueFiestaST said:
Ched hasn't painted himself in a bright light there.
No question of was he allowed to participate.
Light was off.
She was smashed off her face.
He then leaves out the back door (which is I guess normal if you just cheated on your Mrs. I guess there'd be a bit of guilt) to then walk to his mothers house. Was a long way away from the Premier Inn when I knew Ched back in school. Who knows he might have bought her a house and she may have moved closer to Rhuddlan.
I think there must be more evidence to come as what the witness said today isn't enough to clear him is it surely?
Ched's from St Asaph right? The walk from Rhuddland rou nd about to St Asaph is perfectly reasonable on a beer scooter having just done the dirty on your missus, perfectly reasonable.No question of was he allowed to participate.
Light was off.
She was smashed off her face.
He then leaves out the back door (which is I guess normal if you just cheated on your Mrs. I guess there'd be a bit of guilt) to then walk to his mothers house. Was a long way away from the Premier Inn when I knew Ched back in school. Who knows he might have bought her a house and she may have moved closer to Rhuddlan.
I think there must be more evidence to come as what the witness said today isn't enough to clear him is it surely?
This is a sad story all round, nobody appears to have come out of it particularly well and to be honest even the alleged victim would probably have been better served had this been dealt with in another way.
Driver101 said:
A girl rolling about on a kebab shop floor, the kebab shop owner saying she was really drunk, is normal circumstances to meet someone?
No I'm not an expert on sexual trauma. I'm giving my opinion. There's no need to be a smart arse. It's my opinion that's not normal behaviour. I'm sure it's one that most people would share. Her twitter account after the incident was also not what many people considered normal behaviour. That's part of the reason she got a lot of bad attention.
You're giving me a hard time for voicing my opinion about something not being normal, yet your able to give your opinion about something you don't see as normal. Nothing amazes me what people get up to in their sex lives. A lot of people have little or no boundaries.
When you state "That's not consistent with a traumatised rape victim" that's a wide arching statement on all rape victims. You have no expertise or right to make that statement. The only people that do have enough experience to know, would also never make that statement. No I'm not an expert on sexual trauma. I'm giving my opinion. There's no need to be a smart arse. It's my opinion that's not normal behaviour. I'm sure it's one that most people would share. Her twitter account after the incident was also not what many people considered normal behaviour. That's part of the reason she got a lot of bad attention.
You're giving me a hard time for voicing my opinion about something not being normal, yet your able to give your opinion about something you don't see as normal. Nothing amazes me what people get up to in their sex lives. A lot of people have little or no boundaries.
The defence agreed that McDonald met the woman on the street. I'd consider that normal.
The godfather is the main takeaway in Rhyl after a night out.
A lad in decent clothes and can talk the talk can easily pick up a drunk woman if she is partial to a one night stand.
What is surprising is she cannot remember anything from the night.
What if she had yes at the time and then forgot about it in the morning?
That's the sad part of the situation.
Ched did however say today that he didn't ask and just joined in.
You didn’t speak to her at all through the whole episode?
EVANS: It wasn’t really a time for conversation...a moment we all got caught up in
Did you think might have been a good idea for you to ask her if she'd like you to have sex with her?
EVANS: She asked me to perform oral sex
PROS: I suggest she didn’t even know it was you.
CHED EVANS: She did know it was me.
Ched Evans tells court: "I wouldn’t have sex with someone who wasn’t consenting"
A lad in decent clothes and can talk the talk can easily pick up a drunk woman if she is partial to a one night stand.
What is surprising is she cannot remember anything from the night.
What if she had yes at the time and then forgot about it in the morning?
That's the sad part of the situation.
Ched did however say today that he didn't ask and just joined in.
You didn’t speak to her at all through the whole episode?
EVANS: It wasn’t really a time for conversation...a moment we all got caught up in
Did you think might have been a good idea for you to ask her if she'd like you to have sex with her?
EVANS: She asked me to perform oral sex
PROS: I suggest she didn’t even know it was you.
CHED EVANS: She did know it was me.
Ched Evans tells court: "I wouldn’t have sex with someone who wasn’t consenting"
- chedevans
It has always been a strange case this one. Three people in a room two say she was up for it, one is found not guilty the other guilty. She claimed they both raped her, yet here was the result.
Now as for the witness coming forward, isn't that exactly what happened with the celebrity sex offenders. The Police put it out there and people come forward with new evidence.
If true this girl seemed to be one who liked sex, asked for it hard and then in the morning had no idea what she had done.
I had a rep once who would drink heavily and seemed fine, but after that one extra sip changed into a foul mouthed offensive piece of st. Next morning he would say what did I do last night, he had no recollection at all apart from the start of the night.
Many of us will have seen people like that we shall see what the jury decides, Evans is clearly a dimwitted young man, his Father in Law must be special to have his daughter treated like this and still support him, but we will see what happens.
Now as for the witness coming forward, isn't that exactly what happened with the celebrity sex offenders. The Police put it out there and people come forward with new evidence.
If true this girl seemed to be one who liked sex, asked for it hard and then in the morning had no idea what she had done.
I had a rep once who would drink heavily and seemed fine, but after that one extra sip changed into a foul mouthed offensive piece of s
t. Next morning he would say what did I do last night, he had no recollection at all apart from the start of the night. Many of us will have seen people like that we shall see what the jury decides, Evans is clearly a dimwitted young man, his Father in Law must be special to have his daughter treated like this and still support him, but we will see what happens.
spaximus said:
It has always been a strange case this one. Three people in a room two say she was up for it, one is found not guilty the other guilty. She claimed they both raped her, yet here was the result.
Now as for the witness coming forward, isn't that exactly what happened with the celebrity sex offenders. The Police put it out there and people come forward with new evidence.
If true this girl seemed to be one who liked sex, asked for it hard and then in the morning had no idea what she had done.
I had a rep once who would drink heavily and seemed fine, but after that one extra sip changed into a foul mouthed offensive piece of st. Next morning he would say what did I do last night, he had no recollection at all apart from the start of the night.
Many of us will have seen people like that we shall see what the jury decides, Evans is clearly a dimwitted young man, his Father in Law must be special to have his daughter treated like this and still support him, but we will see what happens.
I don't think she claimed both of them raped her.Now as for the witness coming forward, isn't that exactly what happened with the celebrity sex offenders. The Police put it out there and people come forward with new evidence.
If true this girl seemed to be one who liked sex, asked for it hard and then in the morning had no idea what she had done.
I had a rep once who would drink heavily and seemed fine, but after that one extra sip changed into a foul mouthed offensive piece of s
t. Next morning he would say what did I do last night, he had no recollection at all apart from the start of the night. Many of us will have seen people like that we shall see what the jury decides, Evans is clearly a dimwitted young man, his Father in Law must be special to have his daughter treated like this and still support him, but we will see what happens.
I think the police pressed the rape issue.
Didn't she only go the police station to report a stolen bag or that she had been spiked?
Can't remember the original trial.
Reading todays happenings.
Is there a second witness then describing the alleged victims sexual history?
First witness is unemployed
Second witness says he was unaware of the £50,000 reward, that he is not lying about by the alleged victims sexual behaviour and that he could earn £50,000 in under 12 months work so he would not lie in order to gain the money.
http://www.walesonline.co.uk/incoming/ched-evans-r...
Is there a second witness then describing the alleged victims sexual history?
First witness is unemployed
Second witness says he was unaware of the £50,000 reward, that he is not lying about by the alleged victims sexual behaviour and that he could earn £50,000 in under 12 months work so he would not lie in order to gain the money.
http://www.walesonline.co.uk/incoming/ched-evans-r...
I believe the victim here should have complete anonymity in UK law no? Therefore these witnesses should not know who she is and therefore would not be giving such evidence on a case. Since when exactly has it been done that we bring someone's character into question like this in court in this way?
She's been outed by social media, and this is adversely affecting her case, because these witnesses should not know her identity. This would not be evidence in a normal case, they wouldn't be besmirching her character, even if what they have said is true and totally untainted by the reward money put up by the girls father.
And what she's done during sex with other people not connected to the incident, since when has that been a valid defence argument?
What's the legality here of this evidence? And these guys saying they have sex with someone acts so drunk she doesn't remember the next night, aren't they opening themselves up to similar accusations?
She's been outed by social media, and this is adversely affecting her case, because these witnesses should not know her identity. This would not be evidence in a normal case, they wouldn't be besmirching her character, even if what they have said is true and totally untainted by the reward money put up by the girls father.
And what she's done during sex with other people not connected to the incident, since when has that been a valid defence argument?
What's the legality here of this evidence? And these guys saying they have sex with someone acts so drunk she doesn't remember the next night, aren't they opening themselves up to similar accusations?
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