The Official Liverpool FC Thread [Vol 9]
Discussion
m3sye said:
Ta - not on you tube - I did look London424 said:
Dan_1981 said:
allergictocheese said:
....Seriously, Liverpool have the resources to spend hundreds of millions on players and managers....
We really really don't - we're a million miles away from the like of Chelsea, Man City, and even Man Utd. http://transferleague.co.uk/league-tables/transfer...
suggests that our ability to to spend is less than half of the rivals I listed. We simply do not have the resources of these other clubs.
London424 said:
Dan_1981 said:
allergictocheese said:
....Seriously, Liverpool have the resources to spend hundreds of millions on players and managers....
We really really don't - we're a million miles away from the like of Chelsea, Man City, and even Man Utd. Didn't Utd outspend us this summer - who did they sell?
Dan_1981 said:
London424 said:
Dan_1981 said:
allergictocheese said:
....Seriously, Liverpool have the resources to spend hundreds of millions on players and managers....
We really really don't - we're a million miles away from the like of Chelsea, Man City, and even Man Utd. http://transferleague.co.uk/league-tables/transfer...
suggests that our ability to to spend is less than half of the rivals I listed. We simply do not have the resources of these other clubs.
I agree if you get into a head to head with the clubs you listed you're going to struggle for the majority of cases, but the good management is to pick the right player and when to 'over-pay' for someone to get them in.
Liverpool Echo's James Pearce one of the most trusted persons regarding LFC affairs has come out to suggest that the Transfer Committee (TC) could have made BR's work difficult at Anfield.
The sale of senior players on big wages and the signings that BR made this season were not totally his choice, but the committee's. Many managers refused to work under a sporting director when they were interviewed by FSG for the job before BR came in. FSG later set up this committee that is identical, or perhaps wields more power than a sporting director, whilst giving the idea that the manager is totally in charge. Whatever decision the manager makes with regards to signings and contracts, will be voted by 5 people in the committee. Only in the case of a majority vote, BR can sign the players he wants. Otherwise he has to improvise with the players chosen by the TC.
Pearce says BR NEVER wanted to sign Balotelli but was forced to settle for him. In other words, it was the TC that ultimately failed to replace Suarez despite getting big money by selling him. Pearce says BR also made it clear that he wanted Michel Vorm and that signing a GK is a priority. But he says the transfer committee refused to pay his value despite only spending over 30mil in net spending this summer. This also had a significant impact on Mignolet's form as LFC didn't try to provide competition for the Belgian.
Pearce says paying top bucks for Lovren made perfect sense at that point, as he was not one for the future, but was coming in as a top centre back, based on his form with the Saints and his Premier League experience. He was bought to hit the ground running. However he's had a major dip in form which is disappointing says Pearce. Similar tone has been voiced by Mike Bernard, a former employee of FSG, who said BR failing to see eye-to-eye with some of the TC members and their signings, is getting a little unsavoury. Mike noted that BR wanted Eriksen and Bony but was overruled. This also goes back to previous failures to show the money and securing players early when they had interest to move to LFC. Plenty of dragging negotiations and low-balling saw the failure of securing targets such as Willian, Salah, Mikhtaryan, Konoplyanka and more. Diego Costa was identified by BR as a transfer target when Costa was playing as a wing-forward, long before he became a star in that out-and-out striker position and caught the whole world's attention. TC thought his release clause of 20mil back then was too much. The rest is history.
While we drag our feet on targets, other clubs come into the picture, showed the money and swooped them as we watch helplessly. Even for Sanchez, Phil Thompson declared during the world cup that we had Sanchez in the bag. However too much negotiations into details and conditions in payment method allowed Arsenal to sneak in and turn his and his wife's head.
Pearce also does not believe with the popular excuse that BR got founded after Suarez left, and that it was the Uruguayan who made BR look good last season. He says BR's tactical acumen led the team prosper last season, not Suarez alone. The expectations has been raised by last season's football and LFC are struggling with the pressure now he adds. Pearce labels Borini's position as strange and wonders if it could be the club showing frustration against him, for not being able to secure 14mil from Sunderland and another 13mil from QPR. They're certainly making it clear to Borini that he shouldn't reject another deal in January. Another journo Graham Beecroft says Borini could have indicated that he rather sit on the bench and take the wages or run down his contract, than moving to a small club ie Sunderland, QPR who are also refusing to pay more wages than LFC. Could be the reason why he's strangely frozen. Could be the club's decision not the manager's.
The last time Pearce spoke to BR, the manager said Can and some of the new players are still trying to adapt to his philosophy of football and it could be the reason why BR resorts to playing those who know what is expected of them for now. But Pearce says he will speak to BR again about Can to find out more on his position. Pearce says LFC's season could depend on Sturridge coming back to be paired with Balotelli upfront, and then allow the rest of the team to click. Pearce doesn't know if FSG are willing to spend in January but it's a question of can they afford not to. As champions league new TV deal brings in over 40mil next season compared to 25mil before, he opines that LFC must spend. Especially on a top quality striker, taking into account Studge's fitness.
The sale of senior players on big wages and the signings that BR made this season were not totally his choice, but the committee's. Many managers refused to work under a sporting director when they were interviewed by FSG for the job before BR came in. FSG later set up this committee that is identical, or perhaps wields more power than a sporting director, whilst giving the idea that the manager is totally in charge. Whatever decision the manager makes with regards to signings and contracts, will be voted by 5 people in the committee. Only in the case of a majority vote, BR can sign the players he wants. Otherwise he has to improvise with the players chosen by the TC.
Pearce says BR NEVER wanted to sign Balotelli but was forced to settle for him. In other words, it was the TC that ultimately failed to replace Suarez despite getting big money by selling him. Pearce says BR also made it clear that he wanted Michel Vorm and that signing a GK is a priority. But he says the transfer committee refused to pay his value despite only spending over 30mil in net spending this summer. This also had a significant impact on Mignolet's form as LFC didn't try to provide competition for the Belgian.
Pearce says paying top bucks for Lovren made perfect sense at that point, as he was not one for the future, but was coming in as a top centre back, based on his form with the Saints and his Premier League experience. He was bought to hit the ground running. However he's had a major dip in form which is disappointing says Pearce. Similar tone has been voiced by Mike Bernard, a former employee of FSG, who said BR failing to see eye-to-eye with some of the TC members and their signings, is getting a little unsavoury. Mike noted that BR wanted Eriksen and Bony but was overruled. This also goes back to previous failures to show the money and securing players early when they had interest to move to LFC. Plenty of dragging negotiations and low-balling saw the failure of securing targets such as Willian, Salah, Mikhtaryan, Konoplyanka and more. Diego Costa was identified by BR as a transfer target when Costa was playing as a wing-forward, long before he became a star in that out-and-out striker position and caught the whole world's attention. TC thought his release clause of 20mil back then was too much. The rest is history.
While we drag our feet on targets, other clubs come into the picture, showed the money and swooped them as we watch helplessly. Even for Sanchez, Phil Thompson declared during the world cup that we had Sanchez in the bag. However too much negotiations into details and conditions in payment method allowed Arsenal to sneak in and turn his and his wife's head.
Pearce also does not believe with the popular excuse that BR got founded after Suarez left, and that it was the Uruguayan who made BR look good last season. He says BR's tactical acumen led the team prosper last season, not Suarez alone. The expectations has been raised by last season's football and LFC are struggling with the pressure now he adds. Pearce labels Borini's position as strange and wonders if it could be the club showing frustration against him, for not being able to secure 14mil from Sunderland and another 13mil from QPR. They're certainly making it clear to Borini that he shouldn't reject another deal in January. Another journo Graham Beecroft says Borini could have indicated that he rather sit on the bench and take the wages or run down his contract, than moving to a small club ie Sunderland, QPR who are also refusing to pay more wages than LFC. Could be the reason why he's strangely frozen. Could be the club's decision not the manager's.
The last time Pearce spoke to BR, the manager said Can and some of the new players are still trying to adapt to his philosophy of football and it could be the reason why BR resorts to playing those who know what is expected of them for now. But Pearce says he will speak to BR again about Can to find out more on his position. Pearce says LFC's season could depend on Sturridge coming back to be paired with Balotelli upfront, and then allow the rest of the team to click. Pearce doesn't know if FSG are willing to spend in January but it's a question of can they afford not to. As champions league new TV deal brings in over 40mil next season compared to 25mil before, he opines that LFC must spend. Especially on a top quality striker, taking into account Studge's fitness.
m3sye said:
How can we make Bren watch this ? Cara says he doesn't want to play defensively and did well last 3 games then chucks it all away and concedes three.Seems that its fixable but Bren doesn't want it fixed - odd / arrogant / deluded / thick - one of those is correct
Just to add after reading Simons post above - the defence coaching doesn't need a transfer committee and we have enough "good enough" players not to be so crap, that analysis from Carra should have had him offer to pop in and help!!
Edited by DSLiverpool on Tuesday 16th December 10:59
I don’t normally post on this forum, but being a long time Liverpool fan, it’s doesn’t take a rocket scientist to tell you that if you lose the 2 strikers that scored 50% of your goals last season, and you carry on conceding the same amount of goals that you did the previous season, we will end up in trouble, which we are.
The decision to pick rob jones in goal was wrong, he was at fault for the first and third goals against united, Mignolet although has made some errors, he is fundamentally a good keeper, there was panic buy reaction to Luis Suarez leaving, which brought in too many players, I firmly believe that once Daniel Sturridge is back playing, we will be a better team, oh and that f
king Italian tt can fk off in the January sale
The decision to pick rob jones in goal was wrong, he was at fault for the first and third goals against united, Mignolet although has made some errors, he is fundamentally a good keeper, there was panic buy reaction to Luis Suarez leaving, which brought in too many players, I firmly believe that once Daniel Sturridge is back playing, we will be a better team, oh and that f
king Italian tt can fk off in the January salem3sye said:
Liverpool Echo's James Pearce one of the most trusted persons regarding LFC affairs has come out to suggest that the Transfer Committee (TC) could have made BR's work difficult at Anfield.
The sale of senior players on big wages and the signings that BR made this season were not totally his choice, but the committee's. Many managers refused to work under a sporting director when they were interviewed by FSG for the job before BR came in. FSG later set up this committee that is identical, or perhaps wields more power than a sporting director, whilst giving the idea that the manager is totally in charge. Whatever decision the manager makes with regards to signings and contracts, will be voted by 5 people in the committee. Only in the case of a majority vote, BR can sign the players he wants. Otherwise he has to improvise with the players chosen by the TC.
Pearce says BR NEVER wanted to sign Balotelli but was forced to settle for him. In other words, it was the TC that ultimately failed to replace Suarez despite getting big money by selling him. Pearce says BR also made it clear that he wanted Michel Vorm and that signing a GK is a priority. But he says the transfer committee refused to pay his value despite only spending over 30mil in net spending this summer. This also had a significant impact on Mignolet's form as LFC didn't try to provide competition for the Belgian.
Pearce says paying top bucks for Lovren made perfect sense at that point, as he was not one for the future, but was coming in as a top centre back, based on his form with the Saints and his Premier League experience. He was bought to hit the ground running. However he's had a major dip in form which is disappointing says Pearce. Similar tone has been voiced by Mike Bernard, a former employee of FSG, who said BR failing to see eye-to-eye with some of the TC members and their signings, is getting a little unsavoury. Mike noted that BR wanted Eriksen and Bony but was overruled. This also goes back to previous failures to show the money and securing players early when they had interest to move to LFC. Plenty of dragging negotiations and low-balling saw the failure of securing targets such as Willian, Salah, Mikhtaryan, Konoplyanka and more. Diego Costa was identified by BR as a transfer target when Costa was playing as a wing-forward, long before he became a star in that out-and-out striker position and caught the whole world's attention. TC thought his release clause of 20mil back then was too much. The rest is history.
While we drag our feet on targets, other clubs come into the picture, showed the money and swooped them as we watch helplessly. Even for Sanchez, Phil Thompson declared during the world cup that we had Sanchez in the bag. However too much negotiations into details and conditions in payment method allowed Arsenal to sneak in and turn his and his wife's head.
Pearce also does not believe with the popular excuse that BR got founded after Suarez left, and that it was the Uruguayan who made BR look good last season. He says BR's tactical acumen led the team prosper last season, not Suarez alone. The expectations has been raised by last season's football and LFC are struggling with the pressure now he adds. Pearce labels Borini's position as strange and wonders if it could be the club showing frustration against him, for not being able to secure 14mil from Sunderland and another 13mil from QPR. They're certainly making it clear to Borini that he shouldn't reject another deal in January. Another journo Graham Beecroft says Borini could have indicated that he rather sit on the bench and take the wages or run down his contract, than moving to a small club ie Sunderland, QPR who are also refusing to pay more wages than LFC. Could be the reason why he's strangely frozen. Could be the club's decision not the manager's.
The last time Pearce spoke to BR, the manager said Can and some of the new players are still trying to adapt to his philosophy of football and it could be the reason why BR resorts to playing those who know what is expected of them for now. But Pearce says he will speak to BR again about Can to find out more on his position. Pearce says LFC's season could depend on Sturridge coming back to be paired with Balotelli upfront, and then allow the rest of the team to click. Pearce doesn't know if FSG are willing to spend in January but it's a question of can they afford not to. As champions league new TV deal brings in over 40mil next season compared to 25mil before, he opines that LFC must spend. Especially on a top quality striker, taking into account Studge's fitness.
Sounds like FSG have been both a good thing and a bad thing for LFC since they came in. Things have improved but at what cost? How many managers would put up with that kind of nonsense... Its "corporate" gone mad. Sometimes you need someone to make a bold decision, not fanny about in a committee.The sale of senior players on big wages and the signings that BR made this season were not totally his choice, but the committee's. Many managers refused to work under a sporting director when they were interviewed by FSG for the job before BR came in. FSG later set up this committee that is identical, or perhaps wields more power than a sporting director, whilst giving the idea that the manager is totally in charge. Whatever decision the manager makes with regards to signings and contracts, will be voted by 5 people in the committee. Only in the case of a majority vote, BR can sign the players he wants. Otherwise he has to improvise with the players chosen by the TC.
Pearce says BR NEVER wanted to sign Balotelli but was forced to settle for him. In other words, it was the TC that ultimately failed to replace Suarez despite getting big money by selling him. Pearce says BR also made it clear that he wanted Michel Vorm and that signing a GK is a priority. But he says the transfer committee refused to pay his value despite only spending over 30mil in net spending this summer. This also had a significant impact on Mignolet's form as LFC didn't try to provide competition for the Belgian.
Pearce says paying top bucks for Lovren made perfect sense at that point, as he was not one for the future, but was coming in as a top centre back, based on his form with the Saints and his Premier League experience. He was bought to hit the ground running. However he's had a major dip in form which is disappointing says Pearce. Similar tone has been voiced by Mike Bernard, a former employee of FSG, who said BR failing to see eye-to-eye with some of the TC members and their signings, is getting a little unsavoury. Mike noted that BR wanted Eriksen and Bony but was overruled. This also goes back to previous failures to show the money and securing players early when they had interest to move to LFC. Plenty of dragging negotiations and low-balling saw the failure of securing targets such as Willian, Salah, Mikhtaryan, Konoplyanka and more. Diego Costa was identified by BR as a transfer target when Costa was playing as a wing-forward, long before he became a star in that out-and-out striker position and caught the whole world's attention. TC thought his release clause of 20mil back then was too much. The rest is history.
While we drag our feet on targets, other clubs come into the picture, showed the money and swooped them as we watch helplessly. Even for Sanchez, Phil Thompson declared during the world cup that we had Sanchez in the bag. However too much negotiations into details and conditions in payment method allowed Arsenal to sneak in and turn his and his wife's head.
Pearce also does not believe with the popular excuse that BR got founded after Suarez left, and that it was the Uruguayan who made BR look good last season. He says BR's tactical acumen led the team prosper last season, not Suarez alone. The expectations has been raised by last season's football and LFC are struggling with the pressure now he adds. Pearce labels Borini's position as strange and wonders if it could be the club showing frustration against him, for not being able to secure 14mil from Sunderland and another 13mil from QPR. They're certainly making it clear to Borini that he shouldn't reject another deal in January. Another journo Graham Beecroft says Borini could have indicated that he rather sit on the bench and take the wages or run down his contract, than moving to a small club ie Sunderland, QPR who are also refusing to pay more wages than LFC. Could be the reason why he's strangely frozen. Could be the club's decision not the manager's.
The last time Pearce spoke to BR, the manager said Can and some of the new players are still trying to adapt to his philosophy of football and it could be the reason why BR resorts to playing those who know what is expected of them for now. But Pearce says he will speak to BR again about Can to find out more on his position. Pearce says LFC's season could depend on Sturridge coming back to be paired with Balotelli upfront, and then allow the rest of the team to click. Pearce doesn't know if FSG are willing to spend in January but it's a question of can they afford not to. As champions league new TV deal brings in over 40mil next season compared to 25mil before, he opines that LFC must spend. Especially on a top quality striker, taking into account Studge's fitness.
Couple that with RT's repost of that longer article - well, relying on a nerd's stats analysis to make a decision on a player is just asking for trouble. One can only hope its not a major factor in the decision making process...
I've just pulled a bit out of the article sye posted
"Plenty of dragging negotiations and low-balling saw the failure of securing targets such as Willian, Salah, Mikhtaryan, Konoplyanka and more"
And that is where the problem is. If you'd just paid the money...or over the odds you would be securing your first choice target. Whether they would have done any better is a great 'what-if'.
"Plenty of dragging negotiations and low-balling saw the failure of securing targets such as Willian, Salah, Mikhtaryan, Konoplyanka and more"
And that is where the problem is. If you'd just paid the money...or over the odds you would be securing your first choice target. Whether they would have done any better is a great 'what-if'.
London424 said:
I've just pulled a bit out of the article sye posted
"Plenty of dragging negotiations and low-balling saw the failure of securing targets such as Willian, Salah, Mikhtaryan, Konoplyanka and more"
And that is where the problem is. If you'd just paid the money...or over the odds you would be securing your first choice target. Whether they would have done any better is a great 'what-if'.
To me, a lot of those players you mentioned I would still bracket as "potentials". They are not proven quality playing for a top side in a top league (obviously prior to be being sold). For me, these are not the players we should be looking at and this for me is fundamental to where Liverpool consistently go wrong year after year after year. It's not like they don't have money. £220m is a huge statement, or whatever real net equivalent of 220m equates to. It is the way the choose to spend it. Continually and I mean continually, just buying avergae potential with the hope that one or more becomes a Luis Suarez and still hoping to challenge for the league and qualify for the champions league. Sorry, that is not the model for sustained success."Plenty of dragging negotiations and low-balling saw the failure of securing targets such as Willian, Salah, Mikhtaryan, Konoplyanka and more"
And that is where the problem is. If you'd just paid the money...or over the odds you would be securing your first choice target. Whether they would have done any better is a great 'what-if'.
I would rather the policy was to buy 3 quality, proven players and then build the team of potentials around them. Promote some from the youth team - Ibe, Suso, Flanno, Sterling all prove there is quality there. Then finally pad your potentials in - your Markovic's, your Couthinho's etc. It isn't rocket science, it's common sense.
type-r said:
London424 said:
I've just pulled a bit out of the article sye posted
"Plenty of dragging negotiations and low-balling saw the failure of securing targets such as Willian, Salah, Mikhtaryan, Konoplyanka and more"
And that is where the problem is. If you'd just paid the money...or over the odds you would be securing your first choice target. Whether they would have done any better is a great 'what-if'.
To me, a lot of those players you mentioned I would still bracket as "potentials". They are not proven quality playing for a top side in a top league (obviously prior to be being sold). For me, these are not the players we should be looking at and this for me is fundamental to where Liverpool consistently go wrong year after year after year. It's not like they don't have money. £220m is a huge statement, or whatever real net equivalent of 220m equates to. It is the way the choose to spend it. Continually and I mean continually, just buying avergae potential with the hope that one or more becomes a Luis Suarez and still hoping to challenge for the league and qualify for the champions league. Sorry, that is not the model for sustained success."Plenty of dragging negotiations and low-balling saw the failure of securing targets such as Willian, Salah, Mikhtaryan, Konoplyanka and more"
And that is where the problem is. If you'd just paid the money...or over the odds you would be securing your first choice target. Whether they would have done any better is a great 'what-if'.
I would rather the policy was to buy 3 quality, proven players and then build the team of potentials around them. Promote some from the youth team - Ibe, Suso, Flanno, Sterling all prove there is quality there. Then finally pad your potentials in - your Markovic's, your Couthinho's etc. It isn't rocket science, it's common sense.
The issue is, can Liverpool afford to spend big and buy a dud? Or you go down the route that Spurs and Liverpool have now gone down and buy lots of 'potential' and hope that 2-3 develop and you ship on the others for not too big a loss.
I think the main problems at LFC at the moment come down to two things:
Failures in the transfer windows - I think it's becoming apparent that this is less due to BR and more down to the TC as a whole. Failure to land targets that were agreed on ultimately has to come down to Ayre.
Our defence - Seems this is entirely down to BR and his backroom staff. Though the MNF analysis was very interesting and showed that Lovren had a weakspot in allowing gaps to appear - something Toure isn't doing even now (with the same training from BR and his backroom staff)
Failures in the transfer windows - I think it's becoming apparent that this is less due to BR and more down to the TC as a whole. Failure to land targets that were agreed on ultimately has to come down to Ayre.
Our defence - Seems this is entirely down to BR and his backroom staff. Though the MNF analysis was very interesting and showed that Lovren had a weakspot in allowing gaps to appear - something Toure isn't doing even now (with the same training from BR and his backroom staff)
London424 said:
I agree, but, and it's a big but, spending big money on a big name is no guarantee of success at the new club. I think it was an article that sye posted a few weeks back outlining the big money transfers in the league and it seemed to work out that about half were duds.
The issue is, can Liverpool afford to spend big and buy a dud? Or you go down the route that Spurs and Liverpool have now gone down and buy lots of 'potential' and hope that 2-3 develop and you ship on the others for not too big a loss.
Yeah completely agree however my feeling is this. If you buy a big name, proven, he will cost you maybe £10-15m more than a Markovic or a Lallana, there is no better chance that he may fail but surely there is a greater chance that he will succeed rather than buying two potentials like Liverpool have done. Surely there is less risk in buying quality than potential and a much better chance they will succeed and when you effectively shelling out the same or slightly more money. The issue is, can Liverpool afford to spend big and buy a dud? Or you go down the route that Spurs and Liverpool have now gone down and buy lots of 'potential' and hope that 2-3 develop and you ship on the others for not too big a loss.
For me there are other factors too. It brining in a big name, will probably raise the potentials levels too. Call it the Suarez-effect. Torres-effect. When a team is just full of potentials like right now (bar Gerrard, who let's be fair is playing like a potential and who's confidence is still shot from last season), nobody is able to lift the team.
Lastly, these potentials that Liverpool are signing these days, are not for potential prices. They are Fabregas money.
Edited by type-r on Tuesday 16th December 11:56
London424 said:
I've just pulled a bit out of the article sye posted
"Plenty of dragging negotiations and low-balling saw the failure of securing targets such as Willian, Salah, Mikhtaryan, Konoplyanka and more"
And that is where the problem is. If you'd just paid the money...or over the odds you would be securing your first choice target. Whether they would have done any better is a great 'what-if'.
Totally - football is a massive what-if - but it should always be a calculated gamble."Plenty of dragging negotiations and low-balling saw the failure of securing targets such as Willian, Salah, Mikhtaryan, Konoplyanka and more"
And that is where the problem is. If you'd just paid the money...or over the odds you would be securing your first choice target. Whether they would have done any better is a great 'what-if'.
We have been doing this for years though - we had Ronaldo in the bag but would not pay the 12m for him - instead we opted for 3m Le Tallac and 2m for pongolle
The whole Costa thing was about for ages - we looked at him for longer than I look at my bird
BR is at fault for a lot of thing bot for people to solely slag him off for this summers signings is wrong. That article pretty much sums up the mess at liverpool when it comes to signings.
Signing players purely on stats is comedy -
Black can man said:
Anyone know anything about a huge bust up between Lovren & Gerrard after the Palace game ?
The Guardian podcast mentioned it this week & they are pretty much in the know kind of chaps.
That happened and is quite common knowledge however I am hearing that Mignolet told Brendan it wasn't all his fault they concede so many goals but probably not in such a nice fashion - got this from my driver mate.The Guardian podcast mentioned it this week & they are pretty much in the know kind of chaps.
Black can man said:
Anyone know anything about a huge bust up between Lovren & Gerrard after the Palace game ?
The Guardian podcast mentioned it this week & they are pretty much in the know kind of chaps.
The sun reports The Guardian podcast mentioned it this week & they are pretty much in the know kind of chaps.
http://www.dailystar.co.uk/sport/football/415326/S...
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