The Official Liverpool FC Thread [Vol 9]

[lenandsons]

London424 said:

So what I'm reading on here today is everyone (the majority anyway) has come round to RTs way of thinking?

My flabber is gasted!

I do not for one minute believe all the ills of this season land automatically at BR's door, a largish chunk yes (no real plan B, single tactic etc. )but as has been pointed out time after time he is a young manager and show me a young manager who has been an instant success? However the players have to stick their hands up as well and then we have the injury's of this season! The TC has been shown up this year big time as has the pay structure. All for not overpaying but we need to be realistic and work within the market we are in.
Additionally as fans looking in we are not privy to all the discussions that go on at the club and on the training pitch so what we are doing is merely speculating and I do not think anyone of us here can show that he/she has the credentials to be a Prem league manager

[Dan_1981]

lenandsons said:

So after a shambolic weekend I am really caught between the two camps, part of me says that no manager has ever been an instant success so give BR at least another season. That being said though can we afford yet another mediocre season? Will the members of the instant gratification generation of fans be able to still support the club or will we descend into a Newcastle type mess??

For what it is worth I think that BR should get another season but the whole transfer policy needs to be reviewed and potentially the back room staff needs to be reviewed.

3 seasons isn't really instant gratification is it?

2012/13:
4th round of the League Cup Swansea
4th round of FA Cup Oldham
Premier League - 7th
Europa - Round of 32 - Zenith St Petersburg

2013/14:
3rd round league cup - Man Utd
5th Round FA Cup - Arsenal
Premier League - 2nd

2014/15
Semi Fianl of the League Cup - Chelsea
Semi Final round of FA Cup - Aston Villa
Premier League - ???
Champions League - Basel
Europa - Round of 32 - Besiktas


Poor league performances in 2 out of 3 seasons, poor European performances in 2 of 2 seasons, poor cup performances in 2 out of 3 seasons.

I was all for fully supporting Rogers and not making rush judgements, but it seems that he has gone as far as he can.

Nothing looks like it's going to get better, he seems unable to motivate for the big games.

[m3sye]

London424 said:

So what I'm reading on here today is everyone (the majority anyway) has come round to RTs way of thinking?

My flabber is gasted!

RT has had his opinion for a long time - its not a case of us following him or agreeing its a case of for me I am saying he is under massive pressure now after the last result - would I bid livid if he was in charge next year? No, but would I be livid if we replaced him and got someone who 'potentially' make us better again No

Simple thing for me is as I have repeated is this season if no top 4 is now a MASSIVE failure - so of course he will be under big pressue from FSG.

[Flip Martian]

Dan_1981 said:

3 seasons isn't really instant gratification is it?

2012/13:
4th round of the League Cup Swansea
4th round of FA Cup Oldham
Premier League - 7th
Europa - Round of 32 - Zenith St Petersburg

2013/14:
3rd round league cup - Man Utd
5th Round FA Cup - Arsenal
Premier League - 2nd

2014/15
Semi Fianl of the League Cup - Chelsea
Semi Final round of FA Cup - Aston Villa
Premier League - ???
Champions League - Basel
Europa - Round of 32 - Besiktas


Poor league performances in 2 out of 3 seasons, poor European performances in 2 of 2 seasons, poor cup performances in 2 out of 3 seasons.

I was all for fully supporting Rogers and not making rush judgements, but it seems that he has gone as far as he can.

Nothing looks like it's going to get better, he seems unable to motivate for the big games.

Looking at those stats, we had our best cup runs this season and are still (just) in with a shout for top 4 (but probably top 5/6). You could easily make a claim that this season has been our best overall, across all competitions (while not exactly setting the world alight). Last season's run to the top 2 was a weird blip which wasn't reflected in the cups (and of course we weren't in Europe at all).

That's not what I'm saying (before anyone jumps down my throat) but you can bet BR will be...

[Dan_1981]

So does that mean we are doomed to only accept success in one area?

Last year - no Europe, st Cup performance - finish 2nd.

This season - poor Europe, poor(ish) league, decent cup runs.

Another reflection of our lack of depth? or the inability of a manager and team to deal with multiple competitions?

[anonymous-user]

Flip Martian said:

Looking at those stats, we had our best cup runs this season and are still (just) in with a shout for top 4 (but probably top 5/6). You could easily make a claim that this season has been our best overall, across all competitions (while not exactly setting the world alight). Last season's run to the top 2 was a weird blip which wasn't reflected in the cups (and of course we weren't in Europe at all).

That's not what I'm saying (before anyone jumps down my throat) but you can bet BR will be...

That's sort of my point. It's at least on a par with our running average over the last 10 years.


To get the monkey off our back we need to win the league, not a cup or to keep coming 3/4/5/6.

Can only see that either by fluking a couple of signings or spending on a regular basis to match the current top 4. On wages as well as transfers.

[7lucky7]

London424 said:

So what I'm reading on here today is everyone (the majority anyway) has come round to RTs way of thinking?

My flabber is gasted!

If you scream for the manager head constantly, when said manager leaves, that doesn't make you a prophet.

A broken clock is right, twice a day.

[m3sye]

7lucky7 said:

If you scream for the manager head constantly, when said manager leaves, that doesn't make you a prophet.

A broken clock is right, twice a day.

Simple fact is people need time - its no good calling for peoples head all the time without letting them at least have 3 years to implement there style etc - 3 years with nothing and not looking like progressing is probably going to cost him his job - A lot of us have given that time, maybe now though we are feeling it might be getting close to a change - to many big games lost for me as my biggest worry - we just dont look like we can cope when the pressure is really on, no matter if its a top team or a team who really are weaker.

[revrange]

m3sye said:

76% want him gone on this LFC site - worrying stat for BR - if he loses all the fans he is really in trouble, shame as this year should have been so much better with what was available.

http://www.anfieldchat.com/blog/what-to-do-about-b...

Good article - http://www.anfieldhq.com/rodgers-our-season-our-si... - im 50/50 I am just now leaning toward FSG not being so generous.

Edited by m3sye on Monday 20th April 14:52

FSG are known to keep an eye on the mood of the fans

Also these things can kinda of get a life of their own, so next few games i sense are make or break for BR in fans eyes. Loose a few more and i fear he will loose the fans and soon after his job. I fear it because it means the start of another rebuilding process, and at least 2-3 years again before a real challenge on the title can be made.

Something isn't right with the team at the moment though, either players have given up on him or something, fans follow on from this.

I like the majority still support him as he is our manager, and its not the liverpool way to cut a manager a drift after a few bad results.

Problem is many managers like Klop etc will want control of transfers, something FSG won't hand over easily.

This is where many of BR problems have come, he can't sort out a players contract, he can't sign who he wants, or seemingly stop players joining who he didn't want, see Balo.

The squad did need an overhaul last season, it was wafer thin, and certainly not equipped for champions league. Many of the players haven't kicked on, and the manager himself seems lost on occasion like yesterday.

He still a young coach, but mistakes are still coming thick and fast, Can at right back??!? So he is most likely to limp into the summer, 30-40m will be spent on the squad. For me best to buy 2 good players, a striker and midfielder, than buy 4-5 again.

[RWD cossie wil]

Ok, yesterday was very poor, we all agree on that. But....there is a huge elephant in the room here.

Football fans are fickle, last season we had the best season since Rafa in 2005 & 2006 cup wins & the 08/09 league that we still finished 2nd in. People were singing BRs praises, Gerrard rated him as the best manager he had played under.

Last year we had an absolutly outstanding front 3, and that makes an absolutly HUGE difference. This season we lost the dynamic of the team, through no fault of BR. Suarez forced his exit to Barca, Sturridge has been crocked for most of the season which BR has no control over. Lose that front line pressing, energy, creativity & it puts the pressure back against the whole team, no out ball, no movement to create space, no forcing teams into mistakes or long balls. No wonder the midfield looks so poor at times, which in turn leads to the defence being under more pressure as there is far less time to play it out, or no option to play a 50/50 long ball to clear the lines.

It was made quite clear in public that Balotelli was not wanted, but got forced into the squad anyway. Borini forced his stay (which he was quite entitled to do as he is under contract, regardless of what we all think)... BR has had his hands tied by the transer panel no doubt. If as an employee (and make no mistake, BR may be the figurehead of LFC, but he is still an employee) you don't or can't work inside the framework given to you by your owners/employers, you get sacked.

Considering the start of the season we had, and the amount of injured, suspended & new players we have had, I think we have done amazingly well considering we have played most of the season with no recognized striker on the pitch.

It's all very well some posters stamping their petulant little feet constantly, but you don't know 1% of what goes on at the club, and it's disgusting to see the knives out to the extent you want your club to fail just to see a manager sacked.

If we replace BR now, we will be back at the start of yet another 3/4 year cycle of "rebuilding" and "the team Gelling". I don't think we are a million miles off, the framework is there for a great team with a few choice additions, but make no mistake without billionaire owners willing to spunk 200m+ a season instantly, we are shopping at Tescos, not waitrose unlike City, Chelsea, United etc.

Regardless of what we all think, money talks, and we are paying for 5th/6th place which is exactly where we will be, bar a few blips.

We won't win every match, we will lose games we should win, we will have poor performances, get over it. There is no magic wand, no amazing manager who will walk through the door & transform us overnight into a dominant football force that steamrollers everyone infront of us that some deluded posters seem to think shoul happen. Our best chance is long term stability & cohesion, build a team that can grow together.

The bile no doubt will be spat about performances this season, but two semi finals, one of which we lost narrowly to the will be league champions & eventual cup winners, one of which wasn't great, and a readonabke league run with a decimated team can't be considered a failure.

[Flip Martian]

Dan_1981 said:

So does that mean we are doomed to only accept success in one area?

Last year - no Europe, st Cup performance - finish 2nd.

This season - poor Europe, poor(ish) league, decent cup runs.

Another reflection of our lack of depth? or the inability of a manager and team to deal with multiple competitions?

Nope - just a sign (from 1 POV) that there has been a steady improvement.

[7lucky7]

RWD cossie wil said:

Ok, yesterday was very poor, we all agree on that. But....there is a huge elephant in the room here.

Football fans are fickle, last season we had the best season since Rafa in 2005 & 2006 cup wins & the 08/09 league that we still finished 2nd in. People were singing BRs praises, Gerrard rated him as the best manager he had played under.

Last year we had an absolutly outstanding front 3, and that makes an absolutly HUGE difference. This season we lost the dynamic of the team, through no fault of BR. Suarez forced his exit to Barca, Sturridge has been crocked for most of the season which BR has no control over. Lose that front line pressing, energy, creativity & it puts the pressure back against the whole team, no out ball, no movement to create space, no forcing teams into mistakes or long balls. No wonder the midfield looks so poor at times, which in turn leads to the defence being under more pressure as there is far less time to play it out, or no option to play a 50/50 long ball to clear the lines.

It was made quite clear in public that Balotelli was not wanted, but got forced into the squad anyway. Borini forced his stay (which he was quite entitled to do as he is under contract, regardless of what we all think)... BR has had his hands tied by the transer panel no doubt. If as an employee (and make no mistake, BR may be the figurehead of LFC, but he is still an employee) you don't or can't work inside the framework given to you by your owners/employers, you get sacked.

Considering the start of the season we had, and the amount of injured, suspended & new players we have had, I think we have done amazingly well considering we have played most of the season with no recognized striker on the pitch.

It's all very well some posters stamping their petulant little feet constantly, but you don't know 1% of what goes on at the club, and it's disgusting to see the knives out to the extent you want your club to fail just to see a manager sacked.

If we replace BR now, we will be back at the start of yet another 3/4 year cycle of "rebuilding" and "the team Gelling". I don't think we are a million miles off, the framework is there for a great team with a few choice additions, but make no mistake without billionaire owners willing to spunk 200m+ a season instantly, we are shopping at Tescos, not waitrose unlike City, Chelsea, United etc.

Regardless of what we all think, money talks, and we are paying for 5th/6th place which is exactly where we will be, bar a few blips.

We won't win every match, we will lose games we should win, we will have poor performances, get over it. There is no magic wand, no amazing manager who will walk through the door & transform us overnight into a dominant football force that steamrollers everyone infront of us that some deluded posters seem to think shoul happen. Our best chance is long term stability & cohesion, build a team that can grow together.

The bile no doubt will be spat about performances this season, but two semi finals, one of which we lost narrowly to the will be league champions & eventual cup winners, one of which wasn't great, and a readonabke league run with a decimated team can't be considered a failure.

This is a good post.

[NRS]

I think considering the start to the season we have had it's pretty remarkable to have got so close to 4th spot as we have, particularly with no real striker for a lot of the season. I think if we get a few good players we could improve a lot, with them helping pull up the rest of the players who haven't been doing so well. Primary target has to be a good quality striker, and I don't think Origi is going to be that from his season this year.

Much like quite a few others here I am not really super for or against Rodgers. I don't see us getting a proven manager like some people want with the way things are. Same with players unless we really start throwing cash around, which isn't going to happen. The club structure seems to be control the debt, and slowly build for the future (new ground and young players). The problem with people suggesting throw more cash around is that one of the 5 "big" sides will always lose out, and we're probably the club that can least afford it if we have a few bad seasons. The owners do seem to be going for a slowly expanding stable club, but more at a league position 5.

I think Rodgers could do better next season, this season was a bit of a nightmare with the expectations after last season and the lack of striker in particular. So in regards to league position I don't think it's a case of getting rid of him now. I can't see us doing much better (at least in a consistent manner) in the league position.

The problem is the club seems to have games where they just don't play in some of the big games, and we go out with a wimper. That would be my biggest concern with him. I think part might be due to tiredness (league, Europe and long cup runs), distractions off pitch (Sterling situation, Gerrard) and quite a few of our players seem to not be able to be flexible and so if they're out of position they play very poorly. The last is a question for Rodgers and how he sets the team up.

Sterling certainly doesn't deserve the raise he is asking for - playing poorly these days, and although he is a very good attacking midfielder he doesn't know where the goal is, meaning he's not into world class level for that type of position. However he may benefit from a good striker like last season, if we can get someone.

[revrange]

RWD cossie wil said:

Ok, yesterday was very poor, we all agree on that. But....there is a huge elephant in the room here.

Football fans are fickle, last season we had the best season since Rafa in 2005 & 2006 cup wins & the 08/09 league that we still finished 2nd in. People were singing BRs praises, Gerrard rated him as the best manager he had played under.

Last year we had an absolutly outstanding front 3, and that makes an absolutly HUGE difference. This season we lost the dynamic of the team, through no fault of BR. Suarez forced his exit to Barca, Sturridge has been crocked for most of the season which BR has no control over. Lose that front line pressing, energy, creativity & it puts the pressure back against the whole team, no out ball, no movement to create space, no forcing teams into mistakes or long balls. No wonder the midfield looks so poor at times, which in turn leads to the defence being under more pressure as there is far less time to play it out, or no option to play a 50/50 long ball to clear the lines.

It was made quite clear in public that Balotelli was not wanted, but got forced into the squad anyway. Borini forced his stay (which he was quite entitled to do as he is under contract, regardless of what we all think)... BR has had his hands tied by the transer panel no doubt. If as an employee (and make no mistake, BR may be the figurehead of LFC, but he is still an employee) you don't or can't work inside the framework given to you by your owners/employers, you get sacked.

Considering the start of the season we had, and the amount of injured, suspended & new players we have had, I think we have done amazingly well considering we have played most of the season with no recognized striker on the pitch.

It's all very well some posters stamping their petulant little feet constantly, but you don't know 1% of what goes on at the club, and it's disgusting to see the knives out to the extent you want your club to fail just to see a manager sacked.

If we replace BR now, we will be back at the start of yet another 3/4 year cycle of "rebuilding" and "the team Gelling". I don't think we are a million miles off, the framework is there for a great team with a few choice additions, but make no mistake without billionaire owners willing to spunk 200m+ a season instantly, we are shopping at Tescos, not waitrose unlike City, Chelsea, United etc.

Regardless of what we all think, money talks, and we are paying for 5th/6th place which is exactly where we will be, bar a few blips.

We won't win every match, we will lose games we should win, we will have poor performances, get over it. There is no magic wand, no amazing manager who will walk through the door & transform us overnight into a dominant football force that steamrollers everyone infront of us that some deluded posters seem to think shoul happen. Our best chance is long term stability & cohesion, build a team that can grow together.

The bile no doubt will be spat about performances this season, but two semi finals, one of which we lost narrowly to the will be league champions & eventual cup winners, one of which wasn't great, and a readonabke league run with a decimated team can't be considered a failure.

A rare bit of common sense on this board, agree with most of that

[type-r]

Some excellent, intelligent and well written posts on here today, nearly all of which I completely agree with.

All I will add is that some of the inadequacies that Rodger had last season have not been addressed nor has he made any considerable improvement. The defence for the first half of the season was a shambles (he still refuses to bring in a defensive coach). He seems to have stumbled upon a back 3 by some luck and then ridgly sticks to it like it is some magic formula. He lacks any real dynamic decision making - the ability to think on feet EFFECTIVELY. The subs he makes at times baffles. And he has an awkward habit of playing players that constantly under perform and continues to play them more for their name or experience.

Rodgers could become a good manager. He plays the game in the right way. He has the framework of a decent team but he needs help from FSG to plug the holes with quality and improve his decision making. If he is able to recognise his faults he could go on and become a very good manager indeed. Whether that is at Liverpool only time will tell.

[anonymous-user]

I have just bumped into Coutinho on the concourse at Euston station.

fk he is small.

Another part of my passion for football will die when he is sold on for profit.

[Flip Martian]

desolate said:

I have just bumped into Coutinho on the concourse at Euston station.

fk he is small.

Another part of my passion for football will die when he is sold on for profit.

Well he's just signed a new contract (and was apparently very happy to do so) so hopefully that won't be for a while.

[DaveR]

Shamelessly stolen... the most highly rated comment on the BBC News website demonstrates that the ability to laugh at yourself should never be under-rated. Well, it tickled me anyway:


"Why would Jurgen Klopp want to go to Liverpool? Or do you mean his brother, Klippitty? "

[TTmonkey]

DaveR said:

Shamelessly stolen... the most highly rated comment on the BBC News website demonstrates that the ability to laugh at yourself should never be under-rated. Well, it tickled me anyway:


"Why would Jurgen Klopp want to go to Liverpool? Or do you mean his brother, Klippitty? "

Stolen more than once then. Heard that months ago.

[epom]

Haven't been on here in a few days and tbh couldn't be arsed reading back as Somehow I get the feeling I can guess what's being said and by whom. Anyhow....next year