The Official Liverpool FC Thread [Vol 9]

[type-r]

NRS said:

type-r said:

I got gunned down here when we were winning and I suggested that the performances were just papering over the cracks. We were scraping wins in some games. Now it is amusing reading all the comments about just how sh!t we really are. Too many people drunk off the badge only now sobering up as the cold light of day finally dawns. Realisation is a b!tch.

The whole season was a failure before a ball was even kicked. Signing the quantity of average players was the nail in the coffin. Getting CL football should have been the stepping stone to bring in the 3 quality players we needed to BUILD FOR THE FUTURE and move forward. I am talking top players - the Fabregas's and the Sanchez's - the old addage still rings true, you get what you pay for, oh wait, buy cheap, buy twice, no wait, you pay peanuts you get....

FSG need a root and branch review of everything. The manager, the way transfers are handled and the seeming reluctance to pay top wages for the best players which in turn limits the transfers.

I don't think many people were saying the team was doing "well" when we were winning. Yes, we were winning but it wasn't convincing. However considering the complete lack of any strikers and how crap the defense had been earlier in the season it was good that we got some results (and some good defensive stats). I think a lot of the reason for such different "moods" after games is that different people are posting, one group when doing well, one group when doing badly.

The problem with 3 quality players is that you would have to buy at least 6 to get the normal success rate of at least 3 of them working. 6x£30M is £180M, plus adding on much higher wages for them and we cannot afford it (much less be ok with Fair Play rules). Not to mention one of the issues this season is players keep coming in and out of the squad due to injuries. If we only had a few extra players we wouldn't have had any depth to the squad (last season we got lucky as our 2nd squad was worse than this season, but we had so few injury problems we never really needed to use them.

If you consider the lack of goals this season compared to last then I think if we had one decent striker who was able to play regularly we probably would have been up there in 4th or better. Not only would we have more goals, but we probably would have a squad who would have played better as the whole team would have worked more with movement up front. As it is now we have a team set up for attack with technical skills but nowhere to go because we have a person who holds up the ball instead (Balo) or someone who is quick but doesn't have an eye for goal (Sterling).

I can't see us getting many more points this season, as too many players don't care because they're leaving or too many don't care about league position if they don't get CL place (which they have obviously given up hope for). It's not just our team, you see it a lot - it's why teams fighting for relegation often get shock results at the end of a season, as the teams who are not fighting for the League at the top don't tend to care as long as they get CL football. But I think if we get a decent striker this squad could improve a lot next season. If not then we'll be in the same place next year.

Your post is very reasoned and has a lot of the emotion removed, so is very rational and I agree with all of it. The normal distribution point around quality whilst in theory is correct - I just think the odds are better than bringing in constant potential. I have always said potential must be supplemented with quality - the difficulty is finding that fine balance. The framework is there with the team; with 3 highly experienced players will be leaving in Johnson, Gerrard and Toure, they must be replaced with players with experience and proven quality.

Edited by type-r on Wednesday 29th April 09:37

[RedTrident]

epom said:

A stopped clock is right twice a day.
BR will be with us next year whether we like it or not.

That's your opinion. As for a stopped clock. Get stuffed. Called it a long time ago. Big Watch Bodge will never manage at this level again. He'll be at a West Ham.

[Fittster]

type-r said:

The whole season was a failure before a ball was even kicked. Signing the quantity of average players was the nail in the coffin. Getting CL football should have been the stepping stone to bring in the 3 quality players we needed to BUILD FOR THE FUTURE and move forward. I am talking top players - the Fabregas's and the Sanchez's - the old addage still rings true, you get what you pay for, oh wait, buy cheap, buy twice, no wait, you pay peanuts you get....

Why would the Fabregas's and the Sanchez's join Liverpool? They had options of richer clubs who qualify for CL as a matter of routine. Liverpool are restricted to buying players with potential as they aren't in a position to compete with the really big CL clubs.

[addey]

type-r said:

The whole season was a failure before a ball was even kicked. Signing the quantity of average players was the nail in the coffin. Getting CL football should have been the stepping stone to bring in the 3 quality players we needed to BUILD FOR THE FUTURE and move forward. I am talking top players - the Fabregas's and the Sanchez's - the old addage still rings true, you get what you pay for, oh wait, buy cheap, buy twice, no wait, you pay peanuts you get....

The problem is that our squad was paper thin last year so it was always going to be a case of trying to build a better squad rather than going for those 3 world class players. We had 41 matches last year and this season we must be on 50 matches already with 5 to go?

Its all well and good saying we should of spent big on those 3 players, but if one had flopped and one suffered injuries we'd all be bemoaning the fact that we haven't got a deep enough squad! Say we'd spent big on Sanchez, fabregas, and one other what would our line up have been last night (including subs). Or probably more relevantly, what would our line up and bench been when we played arsenal a few weeks ago?

[Eddw86]

Boozy said:

You've done a Spurs and spent a shed load of money on average/good players to try replace someone who could change games in a second, that mixed with a manager who's being found out has cost you (literally). As an outsider the way he's treated Gerard who's given everything to your club, the Chelsea wobble aside is a disgrace. I'm a United fan so hardly a huge supporter of Liverpool or Gerard but it still amazes me how Brenda spoke about him tonight.

What did he say about Gerrard? Seem to have missed this.

[London424]

Fittster said:

type-r said:

The whole season was a failure before a ball was even kicked. Signing the quantity of average players was the nail in the coffin. Getting CL football should have been the stepping stone to bring in the 3 quality players we needed to BUILD FOR THE FUTURE and move forward. I am talking top players - the Fabregas's and the Sanchez's - the old addage still rings true, you get what you pay for, oh wait, buy cheap, buy twice, no wait, you pay peanuts you get....

Why would the Fabregas's and the Sanchez's join Liverpool? They had options of richer clubs who qualify for CL as a matter of routine. Liverpool are restricted to buying players with potential as they aren't in a position to compete with the really big CL clubs.

Of course they are. How much is/was Gerrard and Suarez on when they left? 200k a week? That's plenty to compete with the big boys.

[Cie]

Eddw86 said:

Boozy said:

You've done a Spurs and spent a shed load of money on average/good players to try replace someone who could change games in a second, that mixed with a manager who's being found out has cost you (literally). As an outsider the way he's treated Gerard who's given everything to your club, the Chelsea wobble aside is a disgrace. I'm a United fan so hardly a huge supporter of Liverpool or Gerard but it still amazes me how Brenda spoke about him tonight.

What did he say about Gerrard? Seem to have missed this.

I think it was something like "he slipped on his fking arse, he gave it to Demba Ba..."

[anonymous-user]

Cie said:

Eddw86 said:

Boozy said:

You've done a Spurs and spent a shed load of money on average/good players to try replace someone who could change games in a second, that mixed with a manager who's being found out has cost you (literally). As an outsider the way he's treated Gerard who's given everything to your club, the Chelsea wobble aside is a disgrace. I'm a United fan so hardly a huge supporter of Liverpool or Gerard but it still amazes me how Brenda spoke about him tonight.

What did he say about Gerrard? Seem to have missed this.

I think it was something like "he slipped on his fking arse, he gave it to Demba Ba..."

[Cie]

This is even better Keyser:

Liverpool's specialist strikers (Daniel Sturridge, Mario Balotelli, Rickie Lambert and Fabio Borini) have scored eight Premier League goals between them this season. Everton's back four (Leighton Baines, Seamus Coleman, Phil Jagielka and John Stones) have scored nine.

[anonymous-user]

Cie said:

Everton's back four (Leighton Baines, Seamus Coleman, Phil Jagielka and John Stones) have scored nine.

[SydneyBridge]

Cie said:

This is even better Keyser:

Liverpool's specialist strikers (Daniel Sturridge, Mario Balotelli, Rickie Lambert and Fabio Borini) have scored eight Premier League goals between them this season. Everton's back four (Leighton Baines, Seamus Coleman, Phil Jagielka and John Stones) have scored nine.

with those stats, its a wonder how we are in 5th place- they are relegation stats...

I don't think BR is in danger of losing his job even if we lose all the last games- this time next season I think he will be

[TEKNOPUG]

5th richest club in 5th league position shocker!!!

[epom]

RedTrident said:

epom said:

A stopped clock is right twice a day.
BR will be with us next year whether we like it or not.

That's your opinion. As for a stopped clock. Get stuffed. Called it a long time ago. Big Watch Bodge will never manage at this level again. He'll be at a West Ham.

Yep you did call it, almost every single day in fact. He will leave or be pushed out sometime (who knows when?) and in fairness we will be all able to say you were right. As for stuffed I just had a coffee and a few biscuits, not exactly stuffed but will keep me going until lunchtime. I admit I don't have any particular liking for BR, in fact he really annoys me most of the time. His hands are however somewhat tied when it comes to transfers with the moneyball style scheme the club runs. This is fact. Yet an often overlooked fact.

[RedTrident]

He knew the system he was coming into. In fact the owners pandered to him in the first window when he brought in exactly who he wanted. They intervened publicly when he wanted Dempsey ahead of Sturridge.

The man is a fraud. I'll keep on saying it until he's kicked out of the club. And then laugh at him whilst he fails somewhere else.

[DSLiverpool]

OK - who on here is Steve Nicol?

http://www.dailymail.co.uk/sport/football/article-...

[revrange]

http://www.telegraph.co.uk/sport/football/teams/li...

Excellent from Chris Bascombe. Let RT have e his way,he will be repeating himself again in 2018.

Changing the manager will not resolve the problems, its the transfers stupid.

[type-r]

revrange said:

http://www.telegraph.co.uk/sport/football/teams/li...

its the transfers stupid.

No sh!t sherlock

However, the manager and his tactical genius and formations and constant playing of players after dire performances is also in part to blame. And my own personal view, his private life which is not so private, has had some effect on commanding the respect both as a person and a manager.

[type-r]

Fittster said:

type-r said:

The whole season was a failure before a ball was even kicked. Signing the quantity of average players was the nail in the coffin. Getting CL football should have been the stepping stone to bring in the 3 quality players we needed to BUILD FOR THE FUTURE and move forward. I am talking top players - the Fabregas's and the Sanchez's - the old addage still rings true, you get what you pay for, oh wait, buy cheap, buy twice, no wait, you pay peanuts you get....

Why would the Fabregas's and the Sanchez's join Liverpool? They had options of richer clubs who qualify for CL as a matter of routine. Liverpool are restricted to buying players with potential as they aren't in a position to compete with the really big CL clubs.

If you pay enough, nearly any player would come. And Liverpool flushed £120m down the pisser - I think they could manage to rustle up some loose change to pay £180k+ a week.

[phil_cardiff]

revrange said:

http://www.telegraph.co.uk/sport/football/teams/li...

Excellent from Chris Bascombe. Let RT have e his way,he will be repeating himself again in 2018.

Changing the manager will not resolve the problems, its the transfers stupid.

Not excellent at all.

"One world class player can make all the difference, and there is no reason why Liverpool cannot sign two. And another two next summer. And the next."

If only it were that simple. Tompkins has already disproved this myth.

[type-r]

addey said:

The problem is that our squad was paper thin last year so it was always going to be a case of trying to build a better squad rather than going for those 3 world class players. We had 41 matches last year and this season we must be on 50 matches already with 5 to go?

Its all well and good saying we should of spent big on those 3 players, but if one had flopped and one suffered injuries we'd all be bemoaning the fact that we haven't got a deep enough squad! Say we'd spent big on Sanchez, fabregas, and one other what would our line up have been last night (including subs). Or probably more relevantly, what would our line up and bench been when we played arsenal a few weeks ago?

I agree it is not just about bringing in purely world class stars - I have always said you have to complement it with potential and also academy players. Just need to find the ideal balance. I think we have plenty of academy players knocking on the door (Wisdom, Ibe, Flannagan, Texeria) and potentials (Can, Illori, Origi, Sterling, Markovic). Time to bring in some proven quality and experience to support these guys, especially as Gerrard, Toure and Johnson are about to leave. Personally, we need a new spine. A decent keeper to challenge Mignolet, a good central defender, a good midfield general and a quality striker or TWO to complement Sturridge.