Ethnic coaching issue

[LotusOmega375D]

http://www.bbc.co.uk/sport/0/football/30049688

Does anyone else think this is a bag of self-flagellating nonsense? Why is the BBC and other media insistent on making out that English football is governed by some sort of archaic Apartheid system?

We have the most diverse football league in the world, with more foreign coaches and players than you can shake a stick at, and yet they still feel the need to bang on about a lack of ethnicity. Take a look at the other European leagues: they're certainly no more ethnic than ours. Football fans just want the best person for the job: they're really not bothered about their creed, colour or religion.

It boils my pi$$.

[Randy Winkman]

LotusOmega375D said:

http://www.bbc.co.uk/sport/0/football/30049688

Does anyone else think this is a bag of self-flagellating nonsense? Why is the BBC and other media insistent on making out that English football is governed by some sort of archaic Apartheid system?

We have the most diverse football league in the world, with more foreign coaches and players than you can shake a stick at, and yet they still feel the need to bang on about a lack of ethnicity. Take a look at the other European leagues: they're certainly no more ethnic than ours. Football fans just want the best person for the job: they're really not bothered about their creed, colour or religion.

It boils my pi$$.

But it's specifically about coaching, not playing and the article itself says that only 3 coaches in the football league are black. It's hardly diverse is it? Anyway, it's not the media is it? It's just them telling you what the clubs are doing.

[Negative Creep]

Randy Winkman said:

the article itself says that only 3 coaches in the football league are black. It's hardly diverse is it?

About 3% of the UK population is black, so surely that's a pretty accurate representation?

[Hackney]

Jimmy Ffloyd-Hasselbaink got it absolutely right.
Anyone who's interviewed for a job because a black person has to be interviewed would automatically feel they got the interview because of tokenism rather than talent.

In much the same way as Dara O'Briain said once you announce that a woman has to be on every panel show you automatically diminish the talents of anyone who's there because they deserve to be.

[Randy Winkman]

Negative Creep said:

Randy Winkman said:

the article itself says that only 3 coaches in the football league are black. It's hardly diverse is it?

About 3% of the UK population is black, so surely that's a pretty accurate representation?

Are 3% of footballers black?

[southendpier]

The coaches will need to take and pass the FA badges. These are open to all. The fact that premier league clubs want to get more ethnic coaches into the game is really nonsense just saying the correct words. No one would argue that the best coaches should not get to the top level be they ethnic or even, gasp, female or French.

[Negative Creep]

Randy Winkman said:

Negative Creep said:

Randy Winkman said:

the article itself says that only 3 coaches in the football league are black. It's hardly diverse is it?

About 3% of the UK population is black, so surely that's a pretty accurate representation?

Are 3% of footballers black?

So if, say, Wenger was sacked tomorrow Arsenal should interview Paul Ince or Chris Powell as one of their candidates?

Edited by Negative Creep on Friday 14th November 23:46

[Hackney]

Negative Creep said:

Randy Winkman said:

Negative Creep said:

Randy Winkman said:

the article itself says that only 3 coaches in the football league are black. It's hardly diverse is it?

About 3% of the UK population is black, so surely that's a pretty accurate representation?

Are 3% of footballers black?

So if, say, Wenger was sacked tomorrow Arsenal should interview Paul Ince or Chris Powell as one of their candidates?

Edited by Negative Creep on Friday 14th November 23:46

Ince

[RedTrident]

I think its more about the old boys network through which the recruitment takes place that leads to this imo. Bring some transparency to this process and the talent will have an opportunity to shine, regardless of their background.

I genuinely think there is a problem. I've just never agreed with clumsy solutions like the ones I read being proposed.

[jcremonini]

How many black ex-players have the managerial licenses needed to get into management ?

[Randy Winkman]

Negative Creep said:

Randy Winkman said:

Negative Creep said:

Randy Winkman said:

the article itself says that only 3 coaches in the football league are black. It's hardly diverse is it?

About 3% of the UK population is black, so surely that's a pretty accurate representation?

Are 3% of footballers black?

So if, say, Wenger was sacked tomorrow Arsenal should interview Paul Ince or Chris Powell as one of their candidates?

Edited by Negative Creep on Friday 14th November 23:46

They should interview whoever they think might be suitable for the job. But that doesn't mean that the FA/Football League shouldn't be addressing the whole issue separately.

[Negative Creep]

Randy Winkman said:

Negative Creep said:

Randy Winkman said:

Negative Creep said:

Randy Winkman said:

the article itself says that only 3 coaches in the football league are black. It's hardly diverse is it?

About 3% of the UK population is black, so surely that's a pretty accurate representation?

Are 3% of footballers black?

So if, say, Wenger was sacked tomorrow Arsenal should interview Paul Ince or Chris Powell as one of their candidates?

Edited by Negative Creep on Friday 14th November 23:46

They should interview whoever they think might be suitable for the job. But that doesn't mean that the FA/Football League shouldn't be addressing the whole issue separately.

So you're against the Rooney Rule? Because that goes against the very nature of interviewing those most suitable for a job.

[Randy Winkman]

Negative Creep said:

So you're against the Rooney Rule? Because that goes against the very nature of interviewing those most suitable for a job.

No, I quite like him actually. If the Rooney Rule means clubs have to interview non-white people for jobs then I'm against it. I'm no expert but it probably presents a negative image of non-white people. But ensuring that non-white people are on the training schemes looks OK to me. I think that access to top jobs is significantly affected by role models and expectations. If young people don't have them then in a lot of cases they just wont look that way which is shame as it reduces their opportunities and we all lose out to some extent.

[Negative Creep]

Randy Winkman said:

Negative Creep said:

So you're against the Rooney Rule? Because that goes against the very nature of interviewing those most suitable for a job.

No, I quite like him actually. If the Rooney Rule means clubs have to interview non-white people for jobs then I'm against it. I'm no expert but it probably presents a negative image of non-white people. But ensuring that non-white people are on the training schemes looks OK to me. I think that access to top jobs is significantly affected by role models and expectations. If young people don't have them then in a lot of cases they just wont look that way which is shame as it reduces their opportunities and we all lose out to some extent.

Named after someone in the NFL, not our favourite granny-botherer. I have no problem with encouraging people from all backgrounds into management, but making clubs interview people they have no intention of ever hiring is a complete waste of everyone's time - positive discrimination is still discrimination. Whilst I have no doubt there is still racism in football, considering the money involved the though a Chairman wouldn't employ the best person just because he isn't white is pretty laughable.

[RWD cossie wil]

Absolute nonsense dreamt up by people with nothing better to do than handwringing for the sake of it.

Personally I would be offended if I was interviewed for a job just because someone said that they needed more blokes with fair skin & blue eyes to meet "their requirement for diversity", I want to be employed on merit & hardwork, not a sympathy vote.

I'm sure every player/coach/manager out there feels the same.

[bitchstewie]

RedTrident said:

I think its more about the old boys network through which the recruitment takes place that leads to this imo. Bring some transparency to this process and the talent will have an opportunity to shine, regardless of their background.

I genuinely think there is a problem. I've just never agreed with clumsy solutions like the ones I read being proposed.

The thing is I'm sure the "old boys network" means you're just as screwed if you're an up and coming white manager.

When I heard that Hasselbaink had been appointed at Burton I didn't think "Oh blimey a black manager" I simply thought "Isn't he a bit too good for Burton?".

[BrabusMog]

bhstewie said:

RedTrident said:

I think its more about the old boys network through which the recruitment takes place that leads to this imo. Bring some transparency to this process and the talent will have an opportunity to shine, regardless of their background.

I genuinely think there is a problem. I've just never agreed with clumsy solutions like the ones I read being proposed.

The thing is I'm sure the "old boys network" means you're just as screwed if you're an up and coming white manager.

When I heard that Hasselbaink had been appointed at Burton I didn't think "Oh blimey a black manager" I simply thought "Isn't he a bit too good for Burton?".

He didn't do too well in Belgium, so we're about to find out...

[joema]

How many black players go on to get coaching badges? Maybe if more were encouraged to do that we would see more black coaches?

[LotusOmega375D]

I see this is doing the rounds again 7 months later.

http://www.bbc.co.uk/sport/0/football/33015657

By the way, this has cropped up during a week when 3 League clubs have just (re-)hired foreign coaches/managers.

Brentford: Marinus Dijkhuizen (Netherlands)
Sunderland: Dick Advocaat (Netherlands)
Watford: Quique Sanchez Flores (Spain)

Perhaps we should be more concerned about the lack of opportunities for any English coach/manager, rather than worrying about the colour of the candidate's skin?

At least Derby have brought back Paul Clement from Europe. There really can't be many (any?) English Managers working at top Continental clubs nowadays.

Poor old Roy Hodgson can't go on forever.

[Silver993tt]

joema said:

How many black players go on to get coaching badges? Maybe if more were encouraged to do that we would see more black coaches?

Why do they have to be 'encouraged'? Why don't they just get their own motivation like everyone else and do it that way? Too much spoon feeding and to much room given to the PC brigade.