What constitutes a TOP player?
Discussion
OllieC said:
He's very good, but in my book not world class, can't fault his consistency though.
I think he is seen by many as good not great. perhaps the issue is that all top players are compared to Ronaldo and Messi in the last few years and they really are the sort that only come along every 25 years or so.Thankyou4calling said:
Cheib said:
Totally agree with this....very,very few English players get in that best 22 players over the last 15 years or so. Cole, Lampard (third place int he Ballon d'Or), Scholes........
How about Rooney?Will soon be the all time top scorer for both England and Man Utd.
Is he a great player?
Lampard came 2nd in the Ballon d'Or from memory, so he would have certainly qualified about 8 yrs ago. Although his international form never quite matched his club form. I guess he had better players around him at his club.
I think that's been an issue for many of the English players coming from Chelsea, City, Arsenal , Man U.....they can't handle the step down to international level!!!
Take some one like Terry. Who's going to bring out the best in him, Carvaliho/Ivanovic, or Upson/Glen Johnson!!!
Thankyou4calling said:
I agree.
Firstly I doubt there's any truth in the story and secondly, is the poster seriously saying Paul Scholes, a good player, was better than Ronaldo!
the story is told by ronaldo ,so why shouldnt it be true? matches up with similar stories (scholes hitting fergy when he went to take a wee etc)Firstly I doubt there's any truth in the story and secondly, is the poster seriously saying Paul Scholes, a good player, was better than Ronaldo!
Not sure the post said scholes was better.
you cant compare a striker with a central midfielder
and I am not saying he is better but - any talk of scholes allows me to re quote carlos tevez. 'so carlos you've played with messi and ronaldo,who's the best ? '
tevez reply ...'scholes'
TwigtheWonderkid said:
Thankyou4calling said:
Cheib said:
Totally agree with this....very,very few English players get in that best 22 players over the last 15 years or so. Cole, Lampard (third place int he Ballon d'Or), Scholes........
How about Rooney?Will soon be the all time top scorer for both England and Man Utd.
Is he a great player?
Lampard came 2nd in the Ballon d'Or from memory, so he would have certainly qualified about 8 yrs ago. Although his international form never quite matched his club form. I guess he had better players around him at his club.
I think that's been an issue for many of the English players coming from Chelsea, City, Arsenal , Man U.....they can't handle the step down to international level!!!
Take some one like Terry. Who's going to bring out the best in him, Carvaliho/Ivanovic, or Upson/Glen Johnson!!!
I think Ferdinand and/or Campbell made it in to an official eclectic XI from one World Cup....that's about as good as any English CB's have been on the world stage for a long time.
Bit of a Unit said:
As I said, we would disagree. But about to surpass Bobby Charlton in goals scored for club and country. Not a top player? How do you rate Bobby?
I've already rated Bobby earlier in this thread, as definitely world class. Bobby Charlton didn't take pens. Bobby Charlton played in an era when there were just 16 teams in tournaments and you didn't have all these stupid games against the Isles of Scilly and Vatican City. And Bobby Charlton was primarily an attacking midfielder. If you seriously think Wayne Rooney is similar class to Bobby Charlton, you must be completely deluded. Regardless of goals scored.
TwigtheWonderkid said:
Bit of a Unit said:
As I said, we would disagree. But about to surpass Bobby Charlton in goals scored for club and country. Not a top player? How do you rate Bobby?
I've already rated Bobby earlier in this thread, as definitely world class. Bobby Charlton didn't take pens. Bobby Charlton played in an era when there were just 16 teams in tournaments and you didn't have all these stupid games against the Isles of Scilly and Vatican City. And Bobby Charlton was primarily an attacking midfielder. If you seriously think Wayne Rooney is similar class to Bobby Charlton, you must be completely deluded. Regardless of goals scored.
selym said:
I must agree. Rooney has proved nothing.
Other than that he will soon break the all time England scoring record, be the highest Manchester United scorer ever and may well be the all time highest premiere league scorer in the future !Surely, you can't say he has proved nothing.
An amazing career and still at the top of his game.
Thankyou4calling said:
selym said:
I must agree. Rooney has proved nothing.
Other than that he will soon break the all time England scoring record, be the highest Manchester United scorer ever and may well be the all time highest premiere league scorer in the future !Surely, you can't say he has proved nothing.
An amazing career and still at the top of his game.
We are talking world class and he has proved nothing when compared to the world's best. He is playing in what is a pretty low quality division in which he isn't the best player, and playing for an international side who will achieve nothing in my lifetime (unfortunately), which isn't his fault. Take someone like Ibrahimovic who goes on a world tour making a mark wherever he goes; that's a world class player.
Edited by selym on Monday 15th December 11:19
Thankyou4calling said:
An amazing career and still at the top of his game.
A good career but not amazing. When he burst on the scene we all thought "here we go, at last an English player who is going to become on of the world greats. We thought the same about Owen and Gascoinge but it never happened. Maybe Rooney would be the one. An English Pele/Maradona/Cruyff/Zidane/Eusebio.Has it happened? Has it f
k! Been totally eclipsed by Messi & Ronaldo. Regardless of his achievements, he's been a huge let down.Thankyou4calling said:
Other than that he will soon break the all time England scoring record, be the highest Manchester United scorer ever and may well be the all time highest premiere league scorer in the future !
Surely, you can't say he has proved nothing.
An amazing career and still at the top of his game.
Do you know how many he has scored against "top" opposition (Argies, Holl, Fra, Germ, Brazil etc)? 4. Surely, you can't say he has proved nothing.
An amazing career and still at the top of his game.
TwigtheWonderkid said:
A good career but not amazing. When he burst on the scene we all thought "here we go, at last an English player who is going to become on of the world greats. We thought the same about Owen and Gascoinge but it never happened. Maybe Rooney would be the one. An English Pele/Maradona/Cruyff/Zidane/Eusebio.
Has it happened? Has it fk! Been totally eclipsed by Messi & Ronaldo. Regardless of his achievements, he's been a huge let down.
He's also been eclipsed by the world class bit part players; guys like most of the current crop of second teir Germany players, most of the Spain teams of the last decade, even fricking Bale!Has it happened? Has it f
k! Been totally eclipsed by Messi & Ronaldo. Regardless of his achievements, he's been a huge let down.Have to agree with some about Rooney. After showing so much obvious early promise at Everton and for a year or two at Man.U, in my opinion Rooney has not fulfilled that huge early promise and has disappointed. He is a very good player certainly but in the highest class, has disappointed .... Comparing bare statistics can and often does create false impressions.
The UK for some decades now have not regularly produced an exceptional talent like those previously mentioned from yesteryear like Moore, Banks and the Belfast Boy who was the Best. All of whom I watched in action.
The one present UK player who does appear to be sustaining and even improving on early promise is G.Bale. I think he is a truly World Class talent in any company and still improving. Impressive as those in the recent past giants of talent like Schmeichel, Bergkamp as well as a few others such as Suarez and Ronaldo, Messi is a shade behind those in my opinion. He's very effective but, rarely as impressive in action as those I've already mentioned. PSG's Ibrahimovic has both flair and skill combined in his exceptional talent. Always impressed seeing him play even on a relative off day ... for him.
The above is why I have enjoyed the beautiful game ever since I watched my first ever football match, perched on my father's shoulders just after WWII... Walthamstow Avenue no less... What a team and where are they now ?...
Daggers .... 
The UK for some decades now have not regularly produced an exceptional talent like those previously mentioned from yesteryear like Moore, Banks and the Belfast Boy who was the Best. All of whom I watched in action.
The one present UK player who does appear to be sustaining and even improving on early promise is G.Bale. I think he is a truly World Class talent in any company and still improving. Impressive as those in the recent past giants of talent like Schmeichel, Bergkamp as well as a few others such as Suarez and Ronaldo, Messi is a shade behind those in my opinion. He's very effective but, rarely as impressive in action as those I've already mentioned. PSG's Ibrahimovic has both flair and skill combined in his exceptional talent. Always impressed seeing him play even on a relative off day ... for him.
The above is why I have enjoyed the beautiful game ever since I watched my first ever football match, perched on my father's shoulders just after WWII... Walthamstow Avenue no less... What a team and where are they now ?...
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