What constitutes a TOP player?

What constitutes a TOP player?

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Discussion

Thankyou4calling

Original Poster:

10,595 posts

172 months

Wednesday 3rd December 2014
quotequote all
Football, at the professional level really doesn't employ many players.

If you took the Premiere league teams that'd be less than 1000.

Would it be fair to say that anyone who has played a season (30 games) in the Prem is a top player?

greygoose

8,225 posts

194 months

Wednesday 3rd December 2014
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That definition would probably include Titus Bramble, so no.

uk66fastback

16,457 posts

270 months

Wednesday 3rd December 2014
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There are very fit athletes in elite football with middling football skills ... Then someone comes along with decent fitness and decent ball skills and they stand out ...

Cheib

23,112 posts

174 months

Wednesday 3rd December 2014
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Passing and first touch. There's that great story about Ronaldo showing his tricks after training...after he's finished Scholes points at a tree 50 metres away and hits it first time. Ronaldo had ten shots and couldn't repeat it. PL players make it look easy but hitting accurate passes with pace when you're under pressure is fking difficult!

McClure

2,173 posts

145 months

Thursday 4th December 2014
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Not being quite as good as a top top player.

Cie

18,752 posts

192 months

Thursday 4th December 2014
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McClure said:
Not being quite as good as a top top player.
Where do the 'top drawer' players rank?

mikeyr

3,118 posts

192 months

Thursday 4th December 2014
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Cheib said:
Passing and first touch. There's that great story about Ronaldo showing his tricks after training...after he's finished Scholes points at a tree 50 metres away and hits it first time. Ronaldo had ten shots and couldn't repeat it. PL players make it look easy but hitting accurate passes with pace when you're under pressure is fking difficult!
Strange analogy to prove your point as by most definitions Scholes was a good player but Ronaldo is a level up again.




Thankyou4calling

Original Poster:

10,595 posts

172 months

Thursday 4th December 2014
quotequote all
mikeyr said:
Strange analogy to prove your point as by most definitions Scholes was a good player but Ronaldo is a level up again.
I agree.

Firstly I doubt there's any truth in the story and secondly, is the poster seriously saying Paul Scholes, a good player, was better than Ronaldo!

Cheib

23,112 posts

174 months

Thursday 4th December 2014
quotequote all
Thankyou4calling said:
mikeyr said:
Strange analogy to prove your point as by most definitions Scholes was a good player but Ronaldo is a level up again.
I agree.

Firstly I doubt there's any truth in the story and secondly, is the poster seriously saying Paul Scholes, a good player, was better than Ronaldo!
My point was that the best player in the world (or second best) at that stage couldn't hit long passes as accurately as Scholes. Clearly he has many other attributes that Scholes doesn't.

We're not talking about what separates the Top 50 players in the world it's what separates pro's at the top of the game from the guys in semi-pro football or the lower leagues if I understood the OP correctly. I stand by the ability to hit accurate passes at pace/under pressure especially ones like Fabregas did for that goal in one of his first Chelski games. Look at Wilshere's goal of the season last year....all about passing.

London424

12,826 posts

174 months

Thursday 4th December 2014
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You're only a 'top' player if 'Arry has tried to sign you...but not actually signed you.

OllieC

3,816 posts

213 months

Thursday 4th December 2014
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not quite the answer to your question, but I've always held 'world class' as a personal definition to mean a player that would stand a fighting chance of being included in a 24 man squad picked globally.

I also think 'world class' is used far to often !

OllieC

3,816 posts

213 months

Thursday 4th December 2014
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Cheib said:
Thankyou4calling said:
mikeyr said:
Strange analogy to prove your point as by most definitions Scholes was a good player but Ronaldo is a level up again.
I agree.

Firstly I doubt there's any truth in the story and secondly, is the poster seriously saying Paul Scholes, a good player, was better than Ronaldo!
My point was that the best player in the world (or second best) at that stage couldn't hit long passes as accurately as Scholes. Clearly he has many other attributes that Scholes doesn't.

We're not talking about what separates the Top 50 players in the world it's what separates pro's at the top of the game from the guys in semi-pro football or the lower leagues if I understood the OP correctly. I stand by the ability to hit accurate passes at pace/under pressure especially ones like Fabregas did for that goal in one of his first Chelski games. Look at Wilshere's goal of the season last year....all about passing.
I'd say simplistically its a combo of mentality, technical skills, athleticism, and a footballing brain. If you have all of them, you're likely to be at the top or near enough, the guys below that lack one or more of these things

Amirhussain

11,486 posts

162 months

Thursday 4th December 2014
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OllieC said:
I also think 'world class' is used far to often !
Definitely agree with this!

Thankyou4calling

Original Poster:

10,595 posts

172 months

Friday 5th December 2014
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Amirhussain said:
Definitely agree with this!
Yes. Rather like the term "Great player" as opposed to good player.

For me, to be a great player you'd have to perform consistently at the highest level for at least 5 years and in that time played the vast majority of games for your club and country.

Too many are called great after a season or two.

Dracoro

8,661 posts

244 months

Friday 5th December 2014
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To me, a world class player is one that would make one of the teams in a "world" XI a verses world XI b. i.e. the best 22 players in the world.

England (as in English nationality) has none of these.

Obviously, there will the odd anomaly in that you may have 3+ players in a given position that you simply cannot choose between.

TwigtheWonderkid

43,248 posts

149 months

Friday 5th December 2014
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Dracoro said:
To me, a world class player is one that would make one of the teams in a "world" XI a verses world XI b. i.e. the best 22 players in the world.

England (as in English nationality) has none of these.

Obviously, there will the odd anomaly in that you may have 3+ players in a given position that you simply cannot choose between.
Exactly. If aliens landed tomorrow and challenged Earth to a match, the 22 players in our planet's squad are world class. No current English players would make the cut. The last one who might have had a chance was Ashley Cole, maybe 3 years ago.

When we won the world cup, Banks, Moore and Bobby Charlton would have been straight into the starting 11 to face another planet, and no one in the world would have questioned it.

Abagnale

366 posts

113 months

Saturday 6th December 2014
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Any pros around? A friend of mine was at Palace for a while as a teen, got released & played around the semi pro leagues & abroad for a few years. His view was the difference between a 30 goals a season prem striker & a plodder in league 1 was about 5% ability & 90% desire, in other words, a reflection of society really & the worldy players in his view are few & far between one offs, which is hardly a revelation.

Obviously an opinion like any other, but an insiders I suppose.

Cheib

23,112 posts

174 months

Friday 12th December 2014
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TwigtheWonderkid said:
Dracoro said:
To me, a world class player is one that would make one of the teams in a "world" XI a verses world XI b. i.e. the best 22 players in the world.

England (as in English nationality) has none of these.

Obviously, there will the odd anomaly in that you may have 3+ players in a given position that you simply cannot choose between.
Exactly. If aliens landed tomorrow and challenged Earth to a match, the 22 players in our planet's squad are world class. No current English players would make the cut. The last one who might have had a chance was Ashley Cole, maybe 3 years ago.

When we won the world cup, Banks, Moore and Bobby Charlton would have been straight into the starting 11 to face another planet, and no one in the world would have questioned it.
Totally agree with this....very,very few English players get in that best 22 players over the last 15 years or so. Cole, Lampard (third place int he Ballon d'Or), Scholes........

Thankyou4calling

Original Poster:

10,595 posts

172 months

Friday 12th December 2014
quotequote all
Cheib said:
Totally agree with this....very,very few English players get in that best 22 players over the last 15 years or so. Cole, Lampard (third place int he Ballon d'Or), Scholes........
How about Rooney?

Will soon be the all time top scorer for both England and Man Utd.

Is he a great player?

OllieC

3,816 posts

213 months

Friday 12th December 2014
quotequote all
Thankyou4calling said:
Cheib said:
Totally agree with this....very,very few English players get in that best 22 players over the last 15 years or so. Cole, Lampard (third place int he Ballon d'Or), Scholes........
How about Rooney?

Will soon be the all time top scorer for both England and Man Utd.

Is he a great player?
He's very good, but in my book not world class, can't fault his consistency though.