The Official Manchester United Thread [Vol 5]

[Wombat3]

ORD said:

bstb3 said:

I agree - it's a little surprising that we haven't got someone in CB wise yet, but who knows. This time next week we could have two. I wonder though, with the Darmian signing, if LVG doesn't think he has sufficient cover now across the back. He's talked a lot about creativity and speed, strikers and such but not much at all (unless I missed it) about defensive stability. I think Smalling and Jones would both benefit from playing with a truly world class centre half (although who that would be I don't know).

I agree.

I have wondered for a couple of years why we don't get a new defensive coach. Jones and Smalling each had, apparently, enormous potential but are still headless idiots on the pitch. I don't think you can always blame the players - it looks like nobody is teaching them how to defend!

Except that they both trained and played with Vida and Rio.......

[GTO-3R]

I don't think you can put all the blame on jones and smalling. They are both good players but have had it tough the last couple of years because the players in from of them have been shocking! Hopefully now with the two sch's in front it will give more stability!

[bstb3]

Wombat3 said:

Except that they both trained and played with Vida and Rio.......

True enough, but with Jones playing in all kinds of positions, and both having a fair amount of fitness issues (as well as age and injuries catching up with Rio and Vidic), its not surprising they maybe didn't get the full benefit. Especially as one of those years was under David 'be more like Jagielka' Moyes.

Don't get me wrong, I'm not saying they haven't had chances and I'd accept neither have kicked on as much as expected. I just think that if either could get a regular and lengthy run of games in their preferred position, alongside a player who was at the top of the game at the time, they would come along leaps and bounds.

[Challo]

bstb3 said:

Wombat3 said:

Except that they both trained and played with Vida and Rio.......

True enough, but with Jones playing in all kinds of positions, and both having a fair amount of fitness issues (as well as age and injuries catching up with Rio and Vidic), its not surprising they maybe didn't get the full benefit. Especially as one of those years was under David 'be more like Jagielka' Moyes.

Don't get me wrong, I'm not saying they haven't had chances and I'd accept neither have kicked on as much as expected. I just think that if either could get a regular and lengthy run of games in their preferred position, alongside a player who was at the top of the game at the time, they would come along leaps and bounds.

I think one of the problems is that they where bought as CB, but Fergie, Moyes and LVG have played them at RB and CM??? No wonder they have struggled when they havent been able to ply their trade in the usual position.

To think that Woy thought of all the potential options at RB in England he decided the best bet would be to play Smalling or Jones. MENTAL!!!

[Wombat3]

Challo said:

bstb3 said:

Wombat3 said:

Except that they both trained and played with Vida and Rio.......

True enough, but with Jones playing in all kinds of positions, and both having a fair amount of fitness issues (as well as age and injuries catching up with Rio and Vidic), its not surprising they maybe didn't get the full benefit. Especially as one of those years was under David 'be more like Jagielka' Moyes.

Don't get me wrong, I'm not saying they haven't had chances and I'd accept neither have kicked on as much as expected. I just think that if either could get a regular and lengthy run of games in their preferred position, alongside a player who was at the top of the game at the time, they would come along leaps and bounds.

I think one of the problems is that they where bought as CB, but Fergie, Moyes and LVG have played them at RB and CM??? No wonder they have struggled when they havent been able to ply their trade in the usual position.

To think that Woy thought of all the potential options at RB in England he decided the best bet would be to play Smalling or Jones. MENTAL!!!

Mental till you consider the complete lack of any other decent right backs in English football! (at the time). Clyne will probably fill that slot now I guess.

IMO Jones & Smalling have still played a lot of games at CB together and also in combination with Rojo, Vida, Rio etc.

And then there are the training, U21 & training matches that we don't see. I'm not convinced they will ever step up to the Rio/Vida/JT/Ramos/Pique level.

[JeS10]

I reckon all we'll see now is the departure of ADM and possibly the arrival of Pedro. Unfortunately, I can't see them getting another CB in - both Ramos and Ottamendi deals are off - who else are they considering. A lot of negotiating hours have been spent on fruitless endeavours - if the media are to be believed, of course. Anyway, I'm skeptical and don't think we'll see a great deal more movement. If that is the case I can see a top 4 finish, but not much more. I will happily stand corrected thoug

[Black can man]

I see that Vidal chap has signed for Munich.

[JeS10]

Black can man said:

I see that Vidal chap has signed for Munich.

To replace Schweinsteiger. I know who I think has made the correct decision in this case...

[Challo]

Wombat3 said:

Challo said:

bstb3 said:

Wombat3 said:

Except that they both trained and played with Vida and Rio.......

True enough, but with Jones playing in all kinds of positions, and both having a fair amount of fitness issues (as well as age and injuries catching up with Rio and Vidic), its not surprising they maybe didn't get the full benefit. Especially as one of those years was under David 'be more like Jagielka' Moyes.

Don't get me wrong, I'm not saying they haven't had chances and I'd accept neither have kicked on as much as expected. I just think that if either could get a regular and lengthy run of games in their preferred position, alongside a player who was at the top of the game at the time, they would come along leaps and bounds.

I think one of the problems is that they where bought as CB, but Fergie, Moyes and LVG have played them at RB and CM??? No wonder they have struggled when they havent been able to ply their trade in the usual position.

To think that Woy thought of all the potential options at RB in England he decided the best bet would be to play Smalling or Jones. MENTAL!!!

Mental till you consider the complete lack of any other decent right backs in English football! (at the time). Clyne will probably fill that slot now I guess.

IMO Jones & Smalling have still played a lot of games at CB together and also in combination with Rojo, Vida, Rio etc.

And then there are the training, U21 & training matches that we don't see. I'm not convinced they will ever step up to the Rio/Vida/JT/Ramos/Pique level.

I agree with you and i think from there potential they should have become alot better than they are now. Hopefully this season they can get a consistant run of games without injuries and play together as a pairing. Interesting to see Blind get a few games a CB?? Whether that was incase they didn't bring anyone in?

Has Evans left or did the Everton deal not ahead? At the moment we have Jones, Smalling, Rojo, McNair, Blackett, and Evans as the CB cover. I just cannot see someone else coming now.

[ORD]

Challo said:

I agree with you and i think from there potential they should have become alot better than they are now. Hopefully this season they can get a consistant run of games without injuries and play together as a pairing. Interesting to see Blind get a few games a CB?? Whether that was incase they didn't bring anyone in?

Has Evans left or did the Everton deal not ahead? At the moment we have Jones, Smalling, Rojo, McNair, Blackett, and Evans as the CB cover. I just cannot see someone else coming now.

Just reading the names sent a chill down my spine. Such a bunch of 6/10 players!

[m3sye]

JeS10 said:

To replace Schweinsteiger. I know who I think has made the correct decision in this case...

Bayern done well here - Vidal really is a top top player at the top of his game

Cheap too at 28m - the prem clubs keep getting their arses shown to them with fee's as every club out there knows how much money our guys are now getting

[London424]

m3sye said:

JeS10 said:

To replace Schweinsteiger. I know who I think has made the correct decision in this case...

Bayern done well here - Vidal really is a top top player at the top of his game

Cheap too at 28m - the prem clubs keep getting their arses shown to them with fee's as every club out there knows how much money our guys are now getting

Hardly...it's Spanish clubs that get pantsed more than anyone!

[JeS10]

m3sye said:

JeS10 said:

To replace Schweinsteiger. I know who I think has made the correct decision in this case...

Bayern done well here - Vidal really is a top top player at the top of his game

Cheap too at 28m - the prem clubs keep getting their arses shown to them with fee's as every club out there knows how much money our guys are now getting

Indeed, Vidal was a supposed transfer target last season for united. Vidal would never have went to united for 28 million. Bayern have evidently got the best out of this deal; maybe united will move for Vidal when he has stayed at Bayern for another 5 years...

[m3sye]

London424 said:

Hardly...it's Spanish clubs that get pantsed more than anyone!

I am on about every player not just the worlds best (ie Suarez/Bale etc)

Everytime a English club goes to buy price shoots up, if UTD wanted him would have been 40m+ (if he was avail shocked they didnt go for him to be honest)

[ORD]

A good buy at 28m! Bayern thinking medium term.

[anonymous-user]

Before everyone creams themselves about Vidal, this is a player who hasn't yet shown he's returned to pre injury form and crashed his car whilst pissed.

I rate him but am not shedding any tears over getting Bastian instead of him.

[Black can man]

m3sye said:

Bayern done well here - Vidal really is a top top player at the top of his game

Cheap too at 28m - the prem clubs keep getting their arses shown to them with fee's as every club out there knows how much money our guys are now getting

I'm not so sure Sye to be honest, Money doesn't rock everybody's boat, The worlds best players are rich beyond belief & possibly the reason why the top players are flocking to Real, Barca & Munich maybe because they actually want to win stuff on the biggest footballing stage & let's be fair our top sides are nowhere near winning a champions league any time soon.

[m3sye]

Black can man said:

I'm not so sure Sye to be honest, Money doesn't rock everybody's boat, The worlds best players are rich beyond belief & possibly the reason why the top players are flocking to Real, Barca & Munich maybe because they actually want to win stuff on the biggest footballing stage & let's be fair our top sides are nowhere near winning a champions league any time soon.

Sorry bud you missed my point - it was not where the players want to go, I was just making a point Bayern got him cheap for 28m - if it was just UTD after him his price would have been more than that - English clubs are getting hammered for fee's atm (due to TV revenue)

[anonymous-user]

m3sye said:

Sorry bud you missed my point - it was not where the players want to go, I was just making a point Bayern got him cheap for 28m - if it was just UTD after him his price would have been more than that - English clubs are getting hammered for fee's atm (due to TV revenue)

Sorry but you're wrong. The € has tanked against the £ in the last 12 months. They are paying nearly €40 million for him, a not dissimilar fee to the one being discussed when we were linked. It's just that it's a lot less £ this year.

[Black can man]

m3sye said:

Black can man said:

I'm not so sure Sye to be honest, Money doesn't rock everybody's boat, The worlds best players are rich beyond belief & possibly the reason why the top players are flocking to Real, Barca & Munich maybe because they actually want to win stuff on the biggest footballing stage & let's be fair our top sides are nowhere near winning a champions league any time soon.

Sorry bud you missed my point - it was not where the players want to go, I was just making a point Bayern got him cheap for 28m - if it was just UTD after him his price would have been more than that - English clubs are getting hammered for fee's atm (due to TV revenue)

I do understand what you mean & i think your point is probably true but not as much as you think.i just don't think the worlds best players want to come to England anymore , Maybe it's the hustle & bustle of English football or the relentless fixtures that's putting them off, obviously the not quite so good ones are flocking here to earn a decent wage but the top stars don't seem to be so keen.