The Official Liverpool FC Thread [Vol 10]

[m3sye]

Just got back from my hols in Croatia - lost my mobile too

Have I missed anything

I am told we are meeting Klopp again tmrw for the 2nd time - Carlo has also been met ...

[m3sye]

http://www.telegraph.co.uk/sport/football/teams/li...

Good read

[jammy_basturd]

Anyone else feel like this might be our last chance to stay knocking on the door of Europe's elite before sliding firmly into the has-beens chair?

I mean it looks like we're going to get one of Europe's top managers in either Klopp or Ancelotti and I can't help but feel that is mainly by trading on our past glory, topped up with a tiny bit of recent (10 years) good fortune in cup runs and close calls in the league.

But I can't help but feel, if we go through another managerial era of not winning anything important (league, Europa or CL), or establishing ourselves back in the top three/four, then that's it. Our worldwide support will start to dwindle as new generations choose to support the Chelskis and Citys, our pulling power for both managers and players will pretty much be gone and we'll find ourselves firmly in the group that just aims for 5th and 6th each season.

[SydneyBridge]

jammy_basturd said:

Anyone else feel like this might be our last chance to stay knocking on the door of Europe's elite before sliding firmly into the has-beens chair?

I mean it looks like we're going to get one of Europe's top managers in either Klopp or Ancelotti and I can't help but feel that is mainly by trading on our past glory, topped up with a tiny bit of recent (10 years) good fortune in cup runs and close calls in the league.

But I can't help but feel, if we go through another managerial era of not winning anything important (league, Europa or CL), or establishing ourselves back in the top three/four, then that's it. Our worldwide support will start to dwindle as new generations choose to support the Chelskis and Citys, our pulling power for both managers and players will pretty much be gone and we'll find ourselves firmly in the group that just aims for 5th and 6th each season.

I think that is a pretty fair comment.
I am 44 and I have supported Liverpool since I was about 7 or 8 so I can just about remember the good times !!!
We are in danger of becoming 'another mid table team' and despite the increased capacity at Anfield, we will always struggle to be in the top 3/4 in terms of spending and wages.

[TTmonkey]

jammy_basturd said:

Anyone else feel like this might be our last chance to stay knocking on the door of Europe's elite before sliding firmly into the has-beens chair?

I mean it looks like we're going to get one of Europe's top managers in either Klopp or Ancelotti and I can't help but feel that is mainly by trading on our past glory, topped up with a tiny bit of recent (10 years) good fortune in cup runs and close calls in the league.

But I can't help but feel, if we go through another managerial era of not winning anything important (league, Europa or CL), or establishing ourselves back in the top three/four, then that's it. Our worldwide support will start to dwindle as new generations choose to support the Chelskis and Citys, our pulling power for both managers and players will pretty much be gone and we'll find ourselves firmly in the group that just aims for 5th and 6th each season.

I think you are already 12-15 months down that line. The run to second place 2 seasons ago masked a longer term slide out of top 4. It was a blip that masked reality. There is only room for 4 Top 4 teams and since City came into the money it was obvious one of the old Top 4 would pay the price ultimately... And you don't compete with Chelsea, City or even United financially or with fan base do you?. Perhaps Arsenal could slip out of top 4. But they are far better than LFC at the moment. Better managed. More Stable. And based in London, which I think influences many signings....


I think the recovery should be looked at in terms of a decade, not a couple of seasons. Anfield is holding you back.

[Blib]

jammy_basturd said:

Anyone else feel like this might be our last chance to stay knocking on the door of Europe's elite before sliding firmly into the has-beens chair?

I mean it looks like we're going to get one of Europe's top managers in either Klopp or Ancelotti and I can't help but feel that is mainly by trading on our past glory, topped up with a tiny bit of recent (10 years) good fortune in cup runs and close calls in the league.

But I can't help but feel, if we go through another managerial era of not winning anything important (league, Europa or CL), or establishing ourselves back in the top three/four, then that's it. Our worldwide support will start to dwindle as new generations choose to support the Chelskis and Citys, our pulling power for both managers and players will pretty much be gone and we'll find ourselves firmly in the group that just aims for 5th and 6th each season.

Whichever manager you choose, I believe that an inexorable decline is inevitable. Leave aside any football considerations. Today's top players have other priorities. Liverpool as a city no longer cuts it. No player in their right mind would choose Liverpool over Arsenal for example, all things considered. London trumps Liverpool in every single way.

The power and draw of the London teams will continue to grow. Spurs and Chelsea are to build huge new stadia & West Ham will soon have the Olympic stadium.

IMO, Manchester United will continue to thrive. Citeh too, until the Middle East descends into conflagration. Other than that, I think that provincial teams are doomed when it comes to powerhouse football in the twenty first century.

I say this with a heavy heart. I have the utmost admiration for LFC and what it represents. I well remember watching those wonderful Liverpool European Cup performances on TV. Your mob nicking the away goal and then knocking it about at the back for seventy minutes with the opposition chasing shadows.

But, those days are over. The decline has begun. History will steamroller LFC. That will be a bad thing for football. But, I cannot see any other prospect, in the mid to long term.

Edited by Blib on Monday 5th October 11:13

[type-r]

Carragher pretty much nailed the issues with Liverpool yesterday and he places the blame squarely at the owners, FSG. Getting rid of Hodgson and bringing in the fans favourite King Kenny didn't work. Bringing in Damien Comolli as a DoF didn't work. Replacing it with a Transfer Committee whose agenda was to identify future potential on the "cheap" instead of established talents hasn't worked bar a couple of exceptions. Bringing in a young, potential manager in BR hasn't worked.

I think FSG need to take a long hard look at their strategy if we they are to prevent us becoming an established sub-5th placed team every season. It is not simply just about bringing in top European manager with an established track record (I expect they will want reassurances on transfer spend and player wages) but also implementing the right strategy and that probably means recruiting those two or three real top quality, world class players that our team has lacked for several years, to help the remaining potential to raise their game, much like the Suarez-effect!

[phil_cardiff]

Footballers, the truly professional ones at least, will play anywhere if the team is right and the money is right.

[m3sye]

Lets be honest there is no way Klopp or Carlo are gonna sign without promises of investment - with the money, and their name we c an still attract players - maybe not the worlds best but tbh that will never happen now with the money some of the other clubs will have...
What we lack ed before was a manager who had some pull - klopp and carlo without doubt have that.

[TTmonkey]

phil_cardiff said:

Footballers, the truly professional ones at least, will play anywhere if the team is right and the money is right.

That's not true of the top 0.2% though is it? The superstars that you need in your team can choose to pick a team that's:

• Likely to win a major title
• Is geographically situated to provide their family (wife) the lifestyle they crave

Perhaps City can do it with their wages/likely to win combination.

Couple of years up on Merseyside watching your international career turning to cack isn't appealing for the best players in the world.

[RedTrident]

We've spent 300 million under this new system. Give me 7 or 8 40 million pound players any day over what we've done. It was an absolute shambles.

New manager needs a new system imo. After the sales in the summer our net spend was actually very low. I think there's at least 30 million plus sales in January for the new manager. Out for me over the next 2 windows are

Lovren
Ilori
Allen and possibly Lucas
Lallana or Firmino or Coutinho (too similar imo for 1 position, 1 must go)
Mignolet
Toure
Lazer
Mario

We need a keeper, right sided centre back, left back, commanding central midfielder and a dynamic striker that can replace/compete with Sturridge and Benteke.

Also with Sterling gone, there is just no direct attacking pace in the team. Ibe needs a loan or he needs to play.

We need to spend 100 million after sales on those 6 positions over the next 12 months if we're going to compete. Hopefully the new manager can bring in 3 in January and another 3 in the summer.

Edited by RedTrident on Monday 5th October 12:06

[London424]

TTmonkey said:

phil_cardiff said:

Footballers, the truly professional ones at least, will play anywhere if the team is right and the money is right.

That's not true of the top 0.2% though is it? The superstars that you need in your team can choose to pick a team that's:

• Likely to win a major title
• Is geographically situated to provide their family (wife) the lifestyle they crave

Perhaps City can do it with their wages/likely to win combination.

Couple of years up on Merseyside watching your international career turning to cack isn't appealing for the best players in the world.

If you pay them they will come.

It's as true now as it's ever been. Look at all those players that went off to deepest darkest Russia for gods sake!

ETA: or those who went to Monaco for a nice pay day while still at the top of the game.

Edited by London424 on Monday 5th October 12:35

[TTmonkey]

RedTrident said:

We've spent 300 million under this new system. Give me 7 or 8 40 million pound players any day over what we've done. It was an absolute shambles.

New manager needs a new system imo. After the sales in the summer our net spend was actually very low. I think there's at least 30 million plus sales in January for the new manager. Out for me over the next 2 windows are

Lovren
Ilori
Allen and possibly Lucas
Lallana or Firmino or Coutinho (too similar imo for 1 position, 1 must go)
Mignolet
Toure
Lazer
Mario

We need a keeper, right sided centre back, left back, commanding central midfielder and a dynamic striker that can replace/compete with Sturridge and Benteke.

Also with Sterling gone, there is just no direct attacking pace in the team. Ibe needs a loan or he needs to play.

We need to spend 100 million after sales on those 6 positions over the next 12 months if we're going to compete. Hopefully the new manager can bring in 3 in January and another 3 in the summer.

Edited by RedTrident on Monday 5th October 12:06

I think Mignolet is your most improved player. He's better now than he ever was before,. You want to sell someone that's really good and improving? Perhaps it would be better investing in him rather than trying to buy better.

[SydneyBridge]

I think we have a very good squad, better than we get credit for.

A lot of players were excellent before they came to us, Markovic had won the league for Partizan and Benfica before he came to us. The players we signed from Southampton had excellent seasons before coming to us.

None of the players we have signed maybe could be regarded as world class but we have not paid top dollar either and none of them have become bad players overnight. I think they have been miss-managed, have no confidence and are sick of being played in the wrong positions.

We need a manager to get the best out of what we have and we also need to buy a few big signings, rather than buying players in the the hope they will become world class

[anonymous-user]

Rodgers top 20 quotes in his time as manager

1 - 'I always say a squad is like a good meal. I'm not a great cook, but a good meal takes a wee bit of time. But also, to offer a good meal, you need good ingredients.' ~ 2012/13 season at Liverpool

2 - 'I've always worked along with the statistic that if you can dominate the game with the ball you have a 79 per cent chance of winning the game.' ~ September 2012 when he sat down for an interview with Liverpool fan sites at Melwood

3 - 'The last 18 months we have been on a magic carpet ride of development but we still have a lot of growth to make.' ~ October 2014 in an interview with Spanish newspaper AS

4 - 'I use a quote with the players, "Per aspera ad astra", which is Latin for "through adversity to the stars".' ~ Rodgers in Being:Liverpool, 2012

5 - 'I think there's three players who will let us down this year — the cause, the fight, everything – and I have written them down already in these three envelopes. Make sure you are not in one of the envelopes.' ~ Being:Liverpool, 2012

6 - 'I started coaching for one reason and that was to make a difference for people, not just as footballers but as human beings.' ~ Rodgers during his first press conference at Liverpool in 2012

7 - 'I've always said that you can live without water for many days, but you can't live for a second without hope.' ~ At Liverpool in 2013

8 - 'It was a perfect away performance, apart from the first 10 minutes.' ~ After a 2-0 defeat by Zenit St Petersburg, in which both goals came in the second half

9 - 'When we have the football everybody’s a player. The difference with us is that when we have the ball we play with 11 men, other teams play with 10 and a goalkeeper.' ~ During an interview as Swansea boss in January 2012

10 - 'What I say to the players is this: "The crown is on your head, my friend. You are the king of your destiny".' ~ In Michael Calvin's 'Living on the Volcano: The Secrets of Surviving as a Football Manager'

11 - 'I love to run on the streets around here. I love seeing the people going about their business. These are our people. I love running late in the afternoon, when the doors are open and the dinners are on, and you can smell the mince cooking…' ~ Another quote from the chapter dedicated to Rodgers in Michael Calvin's book

12 - 'I will leave no stone unturned in my quest – and that quest will be relentless – to try and get Liverpool back on the map again as a successful football club.' ~ At Liverpool in 2012

13 - 'My biggest mentor is myself because I've had to study, so that's been my biggest influence.' ~ Rodgers, while Swansea City manager in 2011

14 - 'The problem with being a manager is it's like trying to build an aircraft while it is flying.' ~ While at Swansea in 2012

15 - 'If you give a bad player time, he can play. If you give a good player time, he can kill you.' ~ In an interview with the Guardian while at Swansea in 2012

16 - 'I believe a young man will run through a barbed-wire fence for you. An older player looks for a hole in the fence.' ~ During his time at Liverpool in 2012

17 - 'When we lost at Stoke last season I got home on Boxing Day night and family and guests were all around the house. I went straight upstairs to my room and didn't come out.' ~ While at Liverpool, on the defeat in 2012

18 - 'Look at Tottenham. If you spend more than £100 million, you expect to be challenging for the league' - April 2014, before Spurs finished sixth in the Premier League... the following summer, Liverpool spent over £100m and went on to finish sixth

19 - 'You train dogs. I like to educate players.' ~ Rodgers' first press conference as Liverpool manager

20 - 'He's the Welsh Xavi' ~ On Joe Allen as he arrived at the club, as shown in the Channel 5 documentary Being:Liverpool

[jammy_basturd]

RedTrident said:

We've spent 300 million under this new system. Give me 7 or 8 40 million pound players any day over what we've done. It was an absolute shambles.

New manager needs a new system imo. After the sales in the summer our net spend was actually very low. I think there's at least 30 million plus sales in January for the new manager. Out for me over the next 2 windows are

Lovren
Ilori
Allen and possibly Lucas
Lallana or Firmino or Coutinho (too similar imo for 1 position, 1 must go)
Mignolet
Toure
Lazer
Mario

We need a keeper, right sided centre back, left back, commanding central midfielder and a dynamic striker that can replace/compete with Sturridge and Benteke.

Also with Sterling gone, there is just no direct attacking pace in the team. Ibe needs a loan or he needs to play.

We need to spend 100 million after sales on those 6 positions over the next 12 months if we're going to compete. Hopefully the new manager can bring in 3 in January and another 3 in the summer.

Edited by RedTrident on Monday 5th October 12:06

So what you're saying is, in hindsight, we should only buy the players that will succeed.

[jammy_basturd]

London424 said:

If you pay them they will come.

It's as true now as it's ever been. Look at all those players that went off to deepest darkest Russia for gods sake!

ETA: or those who went to Monaco for a nice pay day while still at the top of the game.

Edited by London424 on Monday 5th October 12:35

No they won't and no it isn't. There were two or three players that Anzi managed to lure with oil money. The only truly great player at the time was Eto'o. They paid him $400k a week - a World record at the time. Nobody else wanted to go there, even for the money they were offering.

And Monaco?!! You mean that club always in the Champions League, situated in a tax haven on the coast of the Mediterranean, home to lots of other rich and famous people and relatively out of the media spotlight. Players are attracted to that sort of thing, really?!!

So the correct saying is, if you pay them, some will come (as long as you can offer them some of the best wages in the world, or happen to be situated in a tax haven on the coast AND have Champions League football).

[Pommygranite]

jammy_basturd said:

RedTrident said:

We've spent 300 million under this new system. Give me 7 or 8 40 million pound players any day over what we've done. It was an absolute shambles.

New manager needs a new system imo. After the sales in the summer our net spend was actually very low. I think there's at least 30 million plus sales in January for the new manager. Out for me over the next 2 windows are

Lovren
Ilori
Allen and possibly Lucas
Lallana or Firmino or Coutinho (too similar imo for 1 position, 1 must go)
Mignolet
Toure
Lazer
Mario

We need a keeper, right sided centre back, left back, commanding central midfielder and a dynamic striker that can replace/compete with Sturridge and Benteke.

Also with Sterling gone, there is just no direct attacking pace in the team. Ibe needs a loan or he needs to play.

We need to spend 100 million after sales on those 6 positions over the next 12 months if we're going to compete. Hopefully the new manager can bring in 3 in January and another 3 in the summer.

Edited by RedTrident on Monday 5th October 12:06

So what you're saying is, in hindsight, we should only buy the players that will succeed.

It seems like what he's saying is that the players are rubbish which means that it wasn't BR's fault the results weren't great

Here's an idea - if the team and these players haven't played well under BR how about we let the new manager come in, let the players get on with it and decide in time who should go and who should come in.

Throwing out the manager and immediately deciding to ship half the 'failed' squad before giving them a go at their appropriate position and role is just idiotic.

Also, we should ship 8 (3 of whom aren't even playing for us at the moment) bring in 6 spend an arbitrary £100m because it sounds sizeable enough? Think you're getting high on your own supply of thinking whatever view you have is right. Calm your tits and stop always having to come up with changes.

Let's let the new manager bed in and then start looking at changes.

[Kitchski]

I have no sympathy for Brendan Rodgers. He was on course to become a Champions League manager, I believe, but obviously, that has changed.

[London424]

jammy_basturd said:

London424 said:

If you pay them they will come.

It's as true now as it's ever been. Look at all those players that went off to deepest darkest Russia for gods sake!

ETA: or those who went to Monaco for a nice pay day while still at the top of the game.

Edited by London424 on Monday 5th October 12:35

No they won't and no it isn't. There were two or three players that Anzi managed to lure with oil money. The only truly great player at the time was Eto'o. They paid him $400k a week - a World record at the time. Nobody else wanted to go there, even for the money they were offering.

And Monaco?!! You mean that club always in the Champions League, situated in a tax haven on the coast of the Mediterranean, home to lots of other rich and famous people and relatively out of the media spotlight. Players are attracted to that sort of thing, really?!!

So the correct saying is, if you pay them, some will come (as long as you can offer them some of the best wages in the world, or happen to be situated in a tax haven on the coast AND have Champions League football).

It reads like you're violently agreeing with me. If you are willing to spend big money you can attract top talent. They will even slum it out in Russia.

Of course Monaco was attractive, but players weren't going there for football reasons were they? Or did you forget that they only recently got promoted out of the second division?

Look at what happened when Chelsea and City got rich. They had to overpay for players to come to them...that's just the way it works.

Edited by London424 on Monday 5th October 13:47