The Official Liverpool FC Thread [Vol 10]

[Flip Martian]

tux said:

I dont know if that Mike Bernard Twitter account is real but if it is then it looks like developments regarding Rodgers are moving quickly.

I've quoted from it a few times but no-one seems to pay attention. I guess most think its fake. I don't, as it goes.

[revrange]

phil_cardiff said:

I note that Rodgers has finished, on average, 5th in each of his 3 seasons. With the 5th or 6th biggest wage bill.

Par.

Yeah which fits with tompkins view, very hard to beat the odds over a period of time.

[revrange]

Flip Martian said:

I've quoted from it a few times but no-one seems to pay attention. I guess most think its fake. I don't, as it goes.

i read it, may well be real but who knows.

[andr3w]

Adam B said:

type-r said:

This I completely agree with. FSG are simply in it to make money - plain and simple. They saw an opportunity of a level playing field (FFP) and potential of a new stadium to increase revenues to sell on - however to their credit they did this by putting up their own money rather than borrowing money and placing Liverpool into debt. Trophies are not their priority; monetising Liverpool as much as possible is and will always be their key aim.

I agree but who buys football clubs these days? Either businessman looking for an investment (FSG and Glaziers) or a billionaire looking for a plaything (Abramovich or Mansour), not sure which is preferable.

Odd thing on FFP is I read that the top clubs were in favour as it supported the status qui, ie prevented a small English / German / Spanish / Italian club being bought by a rich owner and spending huge sums to displace one of the old guard. So we're FSG thinking Liverpool were in the elite already or thinking they could invest wisely and conservatively and catch up?

Billionaires don't buy football clubs as playthings. It's more about politics, protection, exposure - that kind of thing.

[LHRFlightman]

phil_cardiff said:

I note that Rodgers has finished, on average, 5th in each of his 3 seasons. With the 5th or 6th biggest wage bill.

Par.

This. And its why football is turning me off.

Scenario

In the summer our own Saudi sugar daddy comes knocking. Chucks 1.5 billion at FSG and hires Jose on 1,000,000 a week and a 1,000,000,000 transfer budget.

Messi, Ronaldo and Suarez are signed on 5 year deals worth 5,000,000 a week, along with Nuyer from Bayern and God knows who else. Next year LFC end up in the top 4 with some incredible wins, remember the 5-0 away drubbing of the Plastics? Jose says the team is still bonding and just watch us go next year.

The following season the front 3 score 200 goals between them, we conceded 4 all season, and we win the title by 26 points. All through mega bucks.


Now seriously, who would really be happy with that?

[GloverMart]

phil_cardiff said:

I note that Rodgers has finished, on average, 5th in each of his 3 seasons. With the 5th or 6th biggest wage bill.

Par.

From The Guardian, 29th April 2015, and based on 2013-14 accounts so doesn't include the three promoted teams of Burnley, QPR and Leicester.


Arsenal - wage bill 4th, finished 3rd

Aston Villa - wage bill 9th, finished 17th

Chelsea - wage bill 3rd, finished top

Crystal Palace - wage bill 19th, finished 10th

Everton - wage bill 9th, finished 11th

Hull - wage bill 20th, finished 18th

Liverpool - wage bill 5th, finished 6th

Man City - wage bill 2nd, finished 2nd

Man United - wage bill 1st, finished 4th

Newcastle - wage bill 7th, finished 15th

Southampton - wage bill 14th, finished 7th

Stoke - wage bill 16th, finished 9th

Sunderland - wage bill 8th, finished 16th

Swansea - wage bill 14th, finished 8th

Spurs - wage bill 6th, finished 5th

West Brom - wage bill 12th, finished 13th

West Ham - wage bill 13th, finished 12th

So nine clubs finished above where they should have done and I bet you could add Leicester to that list too. Itr's not all about how much money you pay your players, it's far more about having someone to get the best out of what you've got (see Koeman, Pardew, Hughes and Monk for details).

[Black can man]

Is Sye away with HR ?

[curlie467]

phil_cardiff said:

I note that Rodgers has finished, on average, 5th in each of his 3 seasons. With the 5th or 6th biggest wage bill.

Par.

fk it then hey phil!

Let me know in August what our wage bill is so i can end the season there.

[Pommygranite]

In all this money and BR talk about there seems to be little blame on a bunch of players who have played atrociously throughout the season -players that, regardless of position, should be able to trap, pass and not make simple errors - errors that are solely down to them at the point they had the ball.

[DSLiverpool]

Pommygranite said:

In all this money and BR talk about there seems to be little blame on a bunch of players who have played atrociously throughout the season -players that, regardless of position, should be able to trap, pass and not make simple errors - errors that are solely down to them at the point they had the ball.

The players are better than the performance, Bren has lost them and the last few games were payback in my opinion. If Bren was my boss I would hate him for being a indecisive knob (how Gerrard says he is the best ever is beyond me and obviously something we don't see) and what we have seen in particularly the last 2 games was the players airing their agenda.

[anonymous-user]

DSLiverpool said:

The players are better than the performance, Bren has lost them and the last few games were payback in my opinion. If Bren was my boss I would hate him for being a indecisive knob (how Gerrard says he is the best ever is beyond me and obviously something we don't see) and what we have seen in particularly the last 2 games was the players airing their agenda.

We saw the same at Utd last season with Moyes. With regards to Gerrard I suspect he has thought of the club in his statements rather than his own personal agenda and towed the party line. When Rodgers goes and Gerard retires and does a book a think the truth will out.

[TwigtheWonderkid]

As a Chelsea fan who is old enough to recall the great LFC teams of the 70s and 80s, I just couldn't get over that half time score yesterday. I nearly choked on my tea. A combination of glee and genuine sadness, like watching a once great boxer now punchdrunk and getting humiliated by someone not fit to lace his boots.

The team that lined up for Liverpool yesterday were nowhere near good enough to win the league, but plenty good enough to beat Stoke. If you had to pick a starting 11 from the 22 starters yesterday, most would have been Liverpool players.

Therefore the result was a reflection of the motivation, organisation and tactics of the players and not about the quality of the players. Who is responsible to those?

That's my take on it anyway.

[SydneyBridge]

TwigtheWonderkid said:

As a Chelsea fan who is old enough to recall the great LFC teams of the 70s and 80s, I just couldn't get over that half time score yesterday. I nearly choked on my tea. A combination of glee and genuine sadness, like watching a once great boxer now punchdrunk and getting humiliated by someone not fit to lace his boots.

The team that lined up for Liverpool yesterday were nowhere near good enough to win the league, but plenty good enough to beat Stoke. If you had to pick a starting 11 from the 22 starters yesterday, most would have been Liverpool players.

Therefore the result was a reflection of the motivation, organisation and tactics of the players and not about the quality of the players. Who is responsible to those?

That's my take on it anyway.

Agree, same with the cup semi, palace last week and other games we had by far the best team but the opposition was motivated better and tactically set up better.
The buck stops with the manager, Can is a cracking player for example but not at right back

[London424]

Gaz. said:

Pommygranite said:

In all this money and BR talk about there seems to be little blame on a bunch of players who have played atrociously throughout the season -players that, regardless of position, should be able to trap, pass and not make simple errors - errors that are solely down to them at the point they had the ball.

I was wondering that myself, it's not like Brendan gets to touch the ball is it.

I've said this somewhere else but thought it pertinent here.

So much of top class sport is natural instinct. As a player you are used to playing in a certain position in a certain formation. When you are comfortable you just "know" where to be on the pitch, where your teammates are, what runs they are going to make etc.

When you start moving players, or changing formations, or philosophy it takes a long time to recalibrate your natural instincts.

That's why in this situation you place quite a bit of blame on any Manager. Square pegs into round holes. Not getting the best out of what you've got available.

How many years did we suffer as England fans watching a manager try to shoehorn Gerrard, Lampard and Scholes into a team? Just because they were the 3 best midfielders doesn't mean they can or could play together in the same team.

[BlackST]

RT I speak to Jim a couple of times a week (in the real world), you two would get along you both have always had strong views about Rodgers
Obviously right now

[Pommygranite]

London424 said:

Gaz. said:

Pommygranite said:

In all this money and BR talk about there seems to be little blame on a bunch of players who have played atrociously throughout the season -players that, regardless of position, should be able to trap, pass and not make simple errors - errors that are solely down to them at the point they had the ball.

I was wondering that myself, it's not like Brendan gets to touch the ball is it.

I've said this somewhere else but thought it pertinent here.

So much of top class sport is natural instinct. As a player you are used to playing in a certain position in a certain formation. When you are comfortable you just "know" where to be on the pitch, where your teammates are, what runs they are going to make etc.

When you start moving players, or changing formations, or philosophy it takes a long time to recalibrate your natural instincts.

That's why in this situation you place quite a bit of blame on any Manager. Square pegs into round holes. Not getting the best out of what you've got available.

How many years did we suffer as England fans watching a manager try to shoehorn Gerrard, Lampard and Scholes into a team? Just because they were the 3 best midfielders doesn't mean they can or could play together in the same team.

Whilst well reasoned plenty of mistakes have been made by players playing their normal position.

[revrange]

Pommygranite said:

Whilst well reasoned plenty of mistakes have been made by players playing their normal position.

Agreed doesn't explain Balo being a complete donkey all year.

The key will come down to two issues, does BR still have the dressing room (maybe not) and do FSG blame him or their structure?

[jammy_basturd]

GloverMart said:

From The Guardian, 29th April 2015, and based on 2013-14 accounts so doesn't include the three promoted teams of Burnley, QPR and Leicester.


Arsenal - wage bill 4th, finished 3rd

Aston Villa - wage bill 9th, finished 17th

Chelsea - wage bill 3rd, finished top

Crystal Palace - wage bill 19th, finished 10th

Everton - wage bill 9th, finished 11th

Hull - wage bill 20th, finished 18th

Liverpool - wage bill 5th, finished 6th

Man City - wage bill 2nd, finished 2nd

Man United - wage bill 1st, finished 4th

Newcastle - wage bill 7th, finished 15th

Southampton - wage bill 14th, finished 7th

Stoke - wage bill 16th, finished 9th

Sunderland - wage bill 8th, finished 16th

Swansea - wage bill 14th, finished 8th

Spurs - wage bill 6th, finished 5th

West Brom - wage bill 12th, finished 13th

West Ham - wage bill 13th, finished 12th

So nine clubs finished above where they should have done and I bet you could add Leicester to that list too. Itr's not all about how much money you pay your players, it's far more about having someone to get the best out of what you've got (see Koeman, Pardew, Hughes and Monk for details).

It's a great deal to do with how much you spend on your squad (not just wages - you can't just double the pay your players are on and expect them to be twice the player, obviously). As the research done by Tomkins shows, you may be able to 'cheat' your wage position every so often, but on average, over a span of 3, 4, 5 years, you'll nearly always average a league position that matches your wage bill.

This is especially true of the top six, where the boundaries between wage bills are a bit more distinct. Outside the top 6-7 the wage bills are much closer, hence why it's more common to find a club finishing 5 or 6 places away from their wage bill position.

Personally I don't take this as a reason to give up on top four just because we have the fifth largest wage bill, we just need to find a way to consistently increase the value of our squad year on year.

[phil_cardiff]

GloverMart said:

phil_cardiff said:

I note that Rodgers has finished, on average, 5th in each of his 3 seasons. With the 5th or 6th biggest wage bill.

Par.

From The Guardian, 29th April 2015, and based on 2013-14 accounts so doesn't include the three promoted teams of Burnley, QPR and Leicester.


Arsenal - wage bill 4th, finished 3rd

Aston Villa - wage bill 9th, finished 17th

Chelsea - wage bill 3rd, finished top

Crystal Palace - wage bill 19th, finished 10th

Everton - wage bill 9th, finished 11th

Hull - wage bill 20th, finished 18th

Liverpool - wage bill 5th, finished 6th

Man City - wage bill 2nd, finished 2nd

Man United - wage bill 1st, finished 4th

Newcastle - wage bill 7th, finished 15th

Southampton - wage bill 14th, finished 7th

Stoke - wage bill 16th, finished 9th

Sunderland - wage bill 8th, finished 16th

Swansea - wage bill 14th, finished 8th

Spurs - wage bill 6th, finished 5th

West Brom - wage bill 12th, finished 13th

West Ham - wage bill 13th, finished 12th

So nine clubs finished above where they should have done and I bet you could add Leicester to that list too. Itr's not all about how much money you pay your players, it's far more about having someone to get the best out of what you've got (see Koeman, Pardew, Hughes and Monk for details).

So 9 finished above their station but 7 finished below. And it's too simplistic to take one season as a snapshot. Greater minds than ours have analysed this and the correlation between wage bill and final league position is staggering.

[phil_cardiff]

Well said jammy. I too haven't given up on top 4 but I don't st the bed either if we don't quite make it.