The Official Arsenal - 14 x FA Cup winners thread - Vol 4
Discussion
RaymondVanDerDon said:
joema said:
He probably liked shooting outside the box too much.
If AW does go it is going to leave the club in a mess for the new manager to sort. It's an autocracy and I can't see any short term improvement. Whoever it is will be In it for the long haul i guess.
I'm not an Arsenal fan but they are my favourite team out of the big clubs. No way is this club in a crisis or a mess - in fact the way it is run was lauded as a shining example until the anti wenger sentiment started to boil over. There was an analysis done that suggested arsenal could get relegated and still maintain the same running costs for a number of years. If AW does go it is going to leave the club in a mess for the new manager to sort. It's an autocracy and I can't see any short term improvement. Whoever it is will be In it for the long haul i guess.
Fans under 30 bored of top 4 league finish and quarter final champions league knock out football every year, my heart bleeds. Wanting to compete with Chelsea and Man city in the transfer market without acknowledging the infinite resources of their owners - yeah that worked for leeds utd didn't it.
Arsenal are a victim of the money game and other clubs being able to throw 100s of millions at trying to win every year. For me it's a credit to Wenger for not taking that gamble and still achieving success in terms of high league finishes.
If you want to know what real boring is I recommend watching a george graham managed arsenal team.
You suggest that they could get relegated and still maintain the same running costs for a number of years? For what purpose? They aren't going to get relegated, so why are they sitting on all this money? Why aren't they investing it in the squad, in an attempt to win something? They clearly have the money to spend but the board choose not to. What is the point of Arsenal Football Club, if not to win trophies? Is it simply to make as much money for the owners, with the minimum outlay - eg: finishing in the CL places (guaranteed £30m-40m) but investing no money in actually attempting to win it? And if Wenger is about to sign another £10m+ a year contract, then I would suggest that he is utterly complicit in this lack of ambition.
All the while the fans are charged the most expensive tickets in the world....still they should be grateful that they've helped their $8bn owner recently buy a 800sqm ranch to become the ninth-largest landowner in the US. Still, none of his 5 US sports franchises have ever shown any ambition to win either.
Stan Kroenke said:
For me, being an individual owner, I have to have some sort of reality involved. If you want to win Championships then you would never get involved.
Clearly.RaymondVanDerDon said:
I'm not an Arsenal fan but they are my favourite team out of the big clubs. No way is this club in a crisis or a mess - in fact the way it is run was lauded as a shining example until the anti wenger sentiment started to boil over. There was an analysis done that suggested arsenal could get relegated and still maintain the same running costs for a number of years.
Fans under 30 bored of top 4 league finish and quarter final champions league knock out football every year, my heart bleeds. Wanting to compete with Chelsea and Man city in the transfer market without acknowledging the infinite resources of their owners - yeah that worked for leeds utd didn't it.
Arsenal are a victim of the money game and other clubs being able to throw 100s of millions at trying to win every year. For me it's a credit to Wenger for not taking that gamble and still achieving success in terms of high league finishes.
If you want to know what real boring is I recommend watching a george graham managed arsenal team.
you would make a perfect gooner. zero vision or appetite for change lolFans under 30 bored of top 4 league finish and quarter final champions league knock out football every year, my heart bleeds. Wanting to compete with Chelsea and Man city in the transfer market without acknowledging the infinite resources of their owners - yeah that worked for leeds utd didn't it.
Arsenal are a victim of the money game and other clubs being able to throw 100s of millions at trying to win every year. For me it's a credit to Wenger for not taking that gamble and still achieving success in terms of high league finishes.
If you want to know what real boring is I recommend watching a george graham managed arsenal team.
look i appreciate what you are saying. no one disputed the good position the club is in.
whats in dispute is the way its managed financially and tactically on the pitch, the type of players bought, the training methods withe the resources at its disposal!!
arsenal spent £263.7m 2013/16 while only taking in £47.3m on outgoing players. That's a net spend of £216.4m. its no longer a poverty story but a story of mismanaged resources.
to me the existing team is not playing for AW. they are punching so far below their weight its embarrassing.
its a little bit more complex than your post suggests.
TEKNOPUG said:
Counterargument .
I agree with you that Wenger gives the impression he is staying on for the money. And I also agree Wenger has dangled carrots infront of fans in relation to transfer spending.Revenue generation though is not the same as cashflow and hypothetically arsenal spend £40 mill on a player and man city will then go and spend £80 mill on a bench warmer and so on. Arsenal might be able to do it for one or two seasons, deplete their reserves and then what happens if they dont make Europe?
I disagree that Arsenal can compete financially with the real big players.
An example abroad - Barcelona and Real Madrid get blank cheques signed by the bank, which gets them the superstars. Atletico Madrid dont have that luxury, they have to borrow from the money markets - what will happen to them if their revenue dries up?
This is why the financial model is unsporting and why i admire Wenger for realising this and being financially astute for the benefit of arsenal fc.
As for champions league progress - you have to concede arsenal have been unlucky drawing bayern so often!
bobo said:
you would make a perfect gooner. zero vision or appetite for change lol
look i appreciate what you are saying. no one disputed the good position the club is in.
whats in dispute is the way its managed financially and tactically on the pitch, the type of players bought, the training methods withe the resources at its disposal!!
arsenal spent £263.7m 2013/16 while only taking in £47.3m on outgoing players. That's a net spend of £216.4m. its no longer a poverty story but a story of mismanaged resources.
to me the existing team is not playing for AW. they are punching so far below their weight its embarrassing.
its a little bit more complex than your post suggests.
Are yoy saying a net spend of 216 mill is mismanaged resources because it resulted in a waste? That's the current financial state of football and most likely a chicken feed sum compared to the other big clubs.look i appreciate what you are saying. no one disputed the good position the club is in.
whats in dispute is the way its managed financially and tactically on the pitch, the type of players bought, the training methods withe the resources at its disposal!!
arsenal spent £263.7m 2013/16 while only taking in £47.3m on outgoing players. That's a net spend of £216.4m. its no longer a poverty story but a story of mismanaged resources.
to me the existing team is not playing for AW. they are punching so far below their weight its embarrassing.
its a little bit more complex than your post suggests.
Tactics is a different story - my take is arsenals bigger problem is that theyve lost their motivation and fighting spirit and maybe wenger should go if he cant address it.
TEKNOPUG said:
I'd imagine that a lot of the anger is due to the fact that the whole Emirates move was sold to the fans as a necessity in order to increase revenue, so as to maintain their title/trophy challenges. Whereas the reality is that it was blatantly done to increase revenue, so as to line the pockets of the shareholders. And of course one of the highest paid manager's in the world. There clearly is little ambition to actually challenge or win anything. They've been in the top 6-7 highest revenue clubs in the world for years, yet haven't progressed past the last 16 of the CL for 7 years.
You suggest that they could get relegated and still maintain the same running costs for a number of years? For what purpose? They aren't going to get relegated, so why are they sitting on all this money? Why aren't they investing it in the squad, in an attempt to win something? They clearly have the money to spend but the board choose not to. What is the point of Arsenal Football Club, if not to win trophies? Is it simply to make as much money for the owners, with the minimum outlay - eg: finishing in the CL places (guaranteed £30m-40m) but investing no money in actually attempting to win it? And if Wenger is about to sign another £10m+ a year contract, then I would suggest that he is utterly complicit in this lack of ambition.
All the while the fans are charged the most expensive tickets in the world....still they should be grateful that they've helped their $8bn owner recently buy a 800sqm ranch to become the ninth-largest landowner in the US. Still, none of his 5 US sports franchises have ever shown any ambition to win either.
You suggest that they could get relegated and still maintain the same running costs for a number of years? For what purpose? They aren't going to get relegated, so why are they sitting on all this money? Why aren't they investing it in the squad, in an attempt to win something? They clearly have the money to spend but the board choose not to. What is the point of Arsenal Football Club, if not to win trophies? Is it simply to make as much money for the owners, with the minimum outlay - eg: finishing in the CL places (guaranteed £30m-40m) but investing no money in actually attempting to win it? And if Wenger is about to sign another £10m+ a year contract, then I would suggest that he is utterly complicit in this lack of ambition.
All the while the fans are charged the most expensive tickets in the world....still they should be grateful that they've helped their $8bn owner recently buy a 800sqm ranch to become the ninth-largest landowner in the US. Still, none of his 5 US sports franchises have ever shown any ambition to win either.
RaymondVanDerDon said:
Are yoy saying a net spend of 216 mill is mismanaged resources because it resulted in a waste? That's the current financial state of football and most likely a chicken feed sum compared to the other big clubs.
Tactics is a different story - my take is arsenals bigger problem is that theyve lost their motivation and fighting spirit and maybe wenger should go if he cant address it.
I think Leicester total team value was chicken feed compared to that. And look how well they did.Tactics is a different story - my take is arsenals bigger problem is that theyve lost their motivation and fighting spirit and maybe wenger should go if he cant address it.
We will never buy a 150mln neymar but we can compete on most other players in the normal range.
RaymondVanDerDon said:
bobo said:
you would make a perfect gooner. zero vision or appetite for change lol
look i appreciate what you are saying. no one disputed the good position the club is in.
whats in dispute is the way its managed financially and tactically on the pitch, the type of players bought, the training methods withe the resources at its disposal!!
arsenal spent £263.7m 2013/16 while only taking in £47.3m on outgoing players. That's a net spend of £216.4m. its no longer a poverty story but a story of mismanaged resources.
to me the existing team is not playing for AW. they are punching so far below their weight its embarrassing.
its a little bit more complex than your post suggests.
Are yoy saying a net spend of 216 mill is mismanaged resources because it resulted in a waste? That's the current financial state of football and most likely a chicken feed sum compared to the other big clubs.look i appreciate what you are saying. no one disputed the good position the club is in.
whats in dispute is the way its managed financially and tactically on the pitch, the type of players bought, the training methods withe the resources at its disposal!!
arsenal spent £263.7m 2013/16 while only taking in £47.3m on outgoing players. That's a net spend of £216.4m. its no longer a poverty story but a story of mismanaged resources.
to me the existing team is not playing for AW. they are punching so far below their weight its embarrassing.
its a little bit more complex than your post suggests.
Tactics is a different story - my take is arsenals bigger problem is that they've lost their motivation and fighting spirit and maybe wenger should go if he cant address it.
Don't get me wrong; I think it hilarious
But I also think, as a football fan, it's a scandal that a club can continue to show scant ambition to improve their results from one season to the next; to just settle for achieving past expectations? Even more so a club with the resources of Arsenal. Could you imagine Juve, Dortmund, Milan or Athletico settling for 10 years of CL qualification, the last 7 of which were over in the first knock-out stage? And thinking that was an acceptable achievement?There is no pressure if there is no expectation greater than achieving what you are capable of. CL should be the minimum requirement for a club with the revenue of Arsenal. Yet it seems like minimum is acceptable. If you play it safe and aim low, then it can come as no surprise when you never achieve any more. This is the biggest issue; there is no pressure on AW to achieve more than the bare minimum, therefore there is also no pressure on the players as they know that CL qualification is all that is expected of them. The performances and results can therefore come as no surprise - there is no pressure or drive to achieve any more. Everyone is in their comfort zone, collecting their coin.
That would mightily piss me off if I was a Gooner too. Or if I was Alexi Sanchez....
uk66fastback said:
And sooner or later, things get TOO complacent and you slip further, like now.
If things are too comfortable, standards (and results) will only slip, not improve.
Very,very true. Happens in any business/team. If things are too comfortable, standards (and results) will only slip, not improve.
In other news the natives are certainly speaking with their wallets....never seen as many tickets available for a major PL game as there are for the Man City game this weekend. It was similar for Bayern but that was a "dead rubber" effectively. Probably a couple of thousand season tickets for sale on the Ticket Exchange on the clubs website. Normally there might literally be 1 or 2 this close to a big game.
West Ham game is similar.
These tickets are all sold as far as the club is concerned so it'll still be a capacity sell out but there will be lots of red seats on show.
Iwobi "wants Arsene Wenger to stay". There's a surprise another mediocre player on a nice salary trying to safeguard his job. Sanchez hinting he wants to leave Arsenal but is happy in London as he wants to play for a team with "a winning mentality".
As the Emirates is a far superior stadium compared to Stamford Bridge perhaps Kroenke could lease the stadium to Chelsea so at least a decent team get the full use out of it.
As the Emirates is a far superior stadium compared to Stamford Bridge perhaps Kroenke could lease the stadium to Chelsea so at least a decent team get the full use out of it.
Sanchez to Chelsea?
‘I am happy in London and I hope to finish my contract at Arsenal,’ Sanchez said at a press event in Santiago. ‘I want to stay in a winning team and keep playing in the same city. I want to play in a team that has aspirations ‘I’m 28 years old, I still have a lot ahead of me. I am a player who takes great care of himself.’
‘I am happy in London and I hope to finish my contract at Arsenal,’ Sanchez said at a press event in Santiago. ‘I want to stay in a winning team and keep playing in the same city. I want to play in a team that has aspirations ‘I’m 28 years old, I still have a lot ahead of me. I am a player who takes great care of himself.’
jammy-git said:
Sanchez to Chelsea?
‘I am happy in London and I hope to finish my contract at Arsenal,’ Sanchez said at a press event in Santiago. ‘I want to stay in a winning team and keep playing in the same city. I want to play in a team that has aspirations ‘I’m 28 years old, I still have a lot ahead of me. I am a player who takes great care of himself.’
That would be excellent!‘I am happy in London and I hope to finish my contract at Arsenal,’ Sanchez said at a press event in Santiago. ‘I want to stay in a winning team and keep playing in the same city. I want to play in a team that has aspirations ‘I’m 28 years old, I still have a lot ahead of me. I am a player who takes great care of himself.’
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