The Official Arsenal - 14 x FA Cup winners thread - Vol 4

[celicawrc]

Alfahorn said:

Glassman said:

Isn't that part of the problem? The Arabs and the Russian have a bottomless pit of money to spend and will always spend more.

The combine net worth of Kroenke and Usmanov surpasses that of Abramovich by 6 Billion USD!

Coupled with the fact the Emirates is now paid for. Match day revenue and FFP was supposed to be the catalyst for our moment in the sun. The whole bloody point of moving to the Emirates is so we could compete with the big boys financially. All it has ended up being is a cash cow for the invisible yank.

I wish we never left Highbury.

[HarryW]

As a pundit I think Gary Neville is always on the mark, his assessment of Arsenal and the manager is sadly a fair one.

[RacingPete]

Regardless of having the money, who could we have signed?

In a Euros season, I'm sure Benzama likes the fact La Liga has a winter break. Why come and play 5 games in cold rain in England around Christmas time.

It is not like just having the money means world class players become available and want to play in England.

And do we want to go down the Chelsea route of abandoning the youth system or players coming through the club. Bring in a world class DM, what does that say to Coquelin, thanks for stepping up and proving you can do it but we have brought in someone better, so can you play the st teams in Europe, and away at Watford please.

I am not defending the club, but I bet the limit on players better than we have now are very limited.

[Glassman]

RacingPete said:

Bring in a world class DM, what does that say to Coquelin, thanks for stepping up and proving you can do it but we have brought in someone better, so can you play the st teams in Europe, and away at Watford please.

Agree.

I'm not a fan of fantasy football in the real world, but what's the answer? The richest clubs buy ready made players and go balls out for glory.

[Chad_Hugo]

It's official...we are a laughing stock, embarrassment and total and utter joke.

There are 269,610 professional football players- using the term a little loosely perhaps but that's the FIFA figure.

How delusional would Wenger have to be to think that NONE of them could improve our team?

The teams we are supposedly competing with all signed 6-10 players and spent up to £150 million. The fact we did not manage to find one single outfield player who could improve us and spent a pathetic £10 million is laughable when the lie that we are apparently competing keeps on being repeated.

If no player which can be bought could improve us then we would win the title, FA cup and champions league every year, as virtually all players have a price and are for sale at any point in time.

There is no one single factor that has lead to this, it's a mix of Wenger's arrogance and delusions, lack of accountability, ineffective chief executive, poor ownership structure, apathetic fan base, and the whole 'job for life' concept.

The season is already over in terms of winning a trophy. Unfortunately, the only teams which would seriously challenge for 4th have also mostly regressed (for different reasons) and we may again finish 4th almost by default, and the cycle starts all over again.

[MGJohn]

So it appears here the various disappointed Gunners fans are of the opinion that success and results can be bought, be it with a change of management or players. Several teams have tried that to financial excess in recent years and few have seen it pay off well.

Trawling the other teams' threads shows similar trends of opinions around the same theme.

Clearly, it don't work like that, only for one maybe two and even they have not had it guaranteed despite massive outlays.

[Chuck328]

MGJohn said:

So it appears here the various disappointed Gunners fans are of the opinion that success and results can be bought, be it with a change of management or players. Several teams have tried that to financial excess in recent years and few have seen it pay off well.

Seriously?

Chelsea, Man C, PSG? That's exactly what they have been doing. Where were Chelsea and Man City before the mega rich came in? They bought their titles by buying up the best they could get and it worked.

Take a look at AC Milan in the late 80's early 90's. Berlusconi was throwing millions at the club and in the era of van Basten, Gullit and Rijaard they cleaned up in Europe. Then the money starts to stop flowing and look where they are now?

Fast forward to these days and these current teams do the same. With similar results.

[MGJohn]

Chuck328 said:

Seriously?

Where were Chelsea and Man City before the mega rich came in?

Yes, seriously.

Obviously invariably behind Man.U who for years were the single richest club in UK certainly and maybe Europe or the World too.. Now there are rather more richer clubs but only so many trophies to spread around them. There are always nineteen alsorans in the Premiership each season.

Consider this. SKY money has distorted the beautiful game when quality of the team and manager, usually home grown rather than purchased invariably ensured success in the past.

Forest won stuff. Villa won stuff. Liverpool won stuff, Celtic won stuff ...Aberdeen ... etc.. all with mainly home grown talent.

Spurs get an exceptional talent ( Bale ) and money talks and he's gone. How long before someone decides they need a Kane in their line up and make an offer impossible for all parties to refuse. That's just one example to illustrate the point. There are more selling clubs of necessity with survival in mind, than uber-rich buying clubs in the UK. I suspect the story is the same elsewhere. That distorts the beautiful game for this observer and it is the lesser for all that. Name me players who is really worth what they are paid... I'd struggle and I suspect you would too to name many. I was careful not to use the much abused word "earn" here and chose "paid" because there's a big difference.

The beautiful game has gone mad and is the lesser for it. Money doesn't only talk, it shouts its bleedin' head off.

[bobo]

it really is a case of Wenger out...

pathetic... if you read the last 4-5 years of The Official Arsenal thread on PH its the same comments repeating itself. Nothing has changed. well apart from the the fools on here changing their minds recognizing that there was money to spend in the past lol...

where does it go from here then? same old ****

good day all....

[scrubchub]

Well, just to lighten the mood, have a go of "Wenger or Aristotle". Football managing style and ability aside, he has come up with some cracking quotes over the years!

http://www.bbc.co.uk/programmes/articles/wh4mrVD7d...

For anyone who hasn't, read todays Arseblog for a non hysterical but still fairly negative view of the transfer dealing (or lack thereof...).

[Cheib]

I think people get too over excited about transfers as a guarantee of success....look how it's worked out for Liverpool and the Spuds in recent years. They have both had more hits than misses in the transfer market. Never mind what's been going on at Man U. Spending £20mil simply does not guarantee you you'll end up with a player that 1st XI quality....ask Mourinho about his Cuadrado purchase or that left back he's sold back quietly.

Here's our list of "big" transfers (not including like of Sanogo) from the last few seasons

2015/6 Cech
2014/5 Debuchy
Ospina
Chambers
Welbeck
Bielik
Sanchez
Gabriel
2013/4 Ozil
Flamini
2012/3 Podolski
Giroud
Bellerin
Cazorla
Monreal
2011/2 Jenkisnon
Gervinho
The Ox
Santos
Campbell
Park
Arteta
BFG

Looking at that lot you have to go back to 2012/3 for Poldi who didn't really work out and then 2011/2 and the famed trolly dash which saw the absolute shocker of Santos and Park

When you look what's gone on around us when money has been spent in the last three years it's been spent pretty well. Just not enough has been spent!

[celicawrc]

MGJohn said:

So it appears here the various disappointed Gunners fans are of the opinion that success and results can be bought, be it with a change of management or players. Several teams have tried that to financial excess in recent years and few have seen it pay off well.

Trawling the other teams' threads shows similar trends of opinions around the same theme.

Clearly, it don't work like that, only for one maybe two and even they have not had it guaranteed despite massive outlays.

Yes spending money just hasn't worked for the top teams has it. Arsenal's method is much much better!

In the last 10 years:

Chelsea-
4 League titles
4 FA cup
1 Champions League
1 Europa League
3 League cup


Arsenal-
3 FA cup

No we should definitely keep the hundreds of millions of pounds safely stashed away. The club, board and Wenger has no ambition whatsoever! Keeps doing the same old st year in year out and expects different results, insane and delusional!
As for having faith in our feeder, sorry youth academy. Lol yes sure....so we eventually find a young talent who plays 1, maybe 2 seasons with us before they fk off to City or Chelsea. Clubs they know they can have a real shot at the Prem and CL with.

Complete and utter fking joke of a transfer window again, the majority of Gooners of which im sure are extremely fked off right now!

[The jiffle king]

MGJohn said:

The beautiful game has gone mad and is the lesser for it. Money doesn't only talk, it shouts its bleedin' head off.

Sadly it's not a game anymore, it's a business and winning trophies is less important to the owners than raking in shirt sales, TV rights and sponsorship. Fans are there to help sell the product through paying 60 quid to shout and make it look better on the tele.

My own team Southampton have sold a top 4 winning team in the last 5 seasons (in my opinion which I am sure many will disagree with) but with Bale, Oxlade- Chamberlin, Chambers, Shaw, Llalana, Lovren (before he became rubbish) to go with Walcott would have made a pretty tasty side. Sadly money talks and we could not offer even close to the wages of the top 4 teams

[mylesmcd]

I am disappointed we didn't sign anyone bar Cech.

To say that signing a defensive mid fielder would be unfair to Coq is complete rubbish. It would give him competition and therefore more drive to compete for his place AND if he wasn't good enough or the replacement was better, tough tittty, it isn't a Social Club, it is a football club where winning trophies matters.

Also, to say there weren't strikers out there that were available or better than what we have, is too, rubbish, we just didn't find them. Bezima was never going to happen nor was Cavani. We could have easily taken a punt on Lazcette (sp) or the likes.

It is true that Chelsea and City have changed the game in regard to Money and it IS unfair, but that is like crying that someone is punching you in a boxing match.

Wenger has not given himself another piece of rope to hang himself with if and when this backfires and we finish 4th....so close Arsenal, so close....

[Cheib]

celicawrc said:

Yes spending money just hasn't worked for the top teams has it. Arsenal's method is much much better!

In the last 10 years:

Chelsea-
4 League titles
4 FA cup
1 Champions League
1 Europa League
3 League cup


Arsenal-
3 FA cup

No we should definitely keep the hundreds of millions of pounds safely stashed away. The club, board and Wenger has no ambition whatsoever! Keeps doing the same old st year in year out and expects different results, insane and delusional!
As for having faith in our feeder, sorry youth academy. Lol yes sure....so we eventually find a young talent who plays 1, maybe 2 seasons with us before they fk off to City or Chelsea. Clubs they know they can have a real shot at the Prem and CL with.

Complete and utter fking joke of a transfer window again, the majority of Gooners of which im sure are extremely fked off right now!

It's the board which lacks ambition in my book.

If you want Arsenal to be Chelsea or Man City I am afraid you're supporting the wrong club...Arbramovich is into Chelsea for over £1bil now and I suspect Man City's owners are pretty close to that if not in excess of it (most of City's revenue comes from sponsors owned by their owners).

We're never going to have an owner like that....and Chelsea will never have another 10 years like that either. During Moourinho's first stint he could buy almost any player in Europe...only Barca and RM to compete with.

[Black can man]

RacingPete said:

Was intrigued on the difference in prize money between 4th and winning it, so looked up last years money. For each position in the league is £1.2 million, so difference of 1st to 4th is only £3.6 million. Most of the money comes in TV rights (£54 million split equally across all teams) and live games (£850k per live game). So to be financially successful (assuring you don't miss out on champions league) it isn't that much financial gain to spend 100 million to win the league.

Though champs league has potential to earn a team 100 million, as 12 million for taking part, 1.5 million for a match win, and 15 million for winning it. Then they get 50 million for marketing (TV) rights. This is all in euros.

So not spending big (like City have) shows me that Wenger doesn't believe he can win champs league without spending a fortune, and to keep the club ticking over nicely, playing attractive football (to get TV rights) and coming in the top 4 is good business.

This is a great post sir.

[bobo]

Black can man said:

This is a great post sir.

mmmm except it doesn't explore the huge value of revenue streams such as merchandising when you actually win.

or hording cash in the bank at a low deposit ticket value is one could easily argue bad for business on opportunity cost, nest pas?

you could also argue that the existing team massively under performed under wenger last season.... they all will as hes not a winner BUT acquiring at the very least a genuine striker would certainly give you a fighting chance, however it would also admit defeat having called your existing striker 'world class' which frankly he is not. TH14, RvP were world class....

so in simple terms yes, great post but scratch at the surface and you will probably find a deeply arrogant frenchman so set in his ways that's too scared to spend big for fear of failure... and a board that admire the value of their swiss bank accounts on a daily basis.... and THAT is all.

wenger knows hes buying/guaranteeing his tenure at afc with his balance sheet. he is frankly a terrible tactician and not a motivator but alas a good economist.

is that such a good thing for a club that NOW actually has the financial clout to win something other than a cup that no one really takes seriously?

[Alfahorn]

Cheib said:

I think people get too over excited about transfers as a guarantee of success.

No I don't think they do. I think that's your interpretation of what people are saying.

The fans are asking for the club to strengthen in the keys areas that we and the entire footballing world with the exception of the board of Arsenal believe will make us competitive.

We've been saying time and again for years, absolutely fking years that we need a world class defensive midfield player and leader. Last year we started using Coquelin in that position, a player who's been under our noses for 5 years at least. This wasn't a brilliant piece of management by Wenger. The was a decision born out of necessity due to injuries!

Now it's become apparent we lack cutting edge in attack with the half hearted Giroud who is more interested in his appearance and his next conquest than scoring goals.

I refute the suggestion we couldn't have signed the players this summer. Morgan Schneiderlin, Charles Kondogbia, Artur Vidal and the Portuguese lad who's name I forget could have all strengthened that midfield.

Strikers; Pedro, Higuain, Cavani and even Falcao would have been achievable.

I'm not asking for guaranteed success. I want us to have the best squad to give us the best chance of achieving success. There is a difference.

The supporters have been given so many promises and have been continually lied to. I feel for those who have season tickets and members who shell out horrendous amounts of money. They're being asking shell out top money for tickets, they're perfectly entitled to expect the club will shell top money for the players we NEED.

[Glassman]

Henry [when talking about the possibility of signing Benzema] suggested that a player has to want to come to Arsenal; there has to be an attraction. Whilst there gap as wide as it is long between Real Madrid and Arsenal football club, is part of the problem just that? A lot of players are swerving Wenger? or swerving Arsenal?

It's not like we're getting many 'come and get me pleas'.

[Black can man]

bobo said:

Black can man said:

This is a great post sir.

mmmm except it doesn't explore the huge value of revenue streams such as merchandising when you actually win.

or hording cash in the bank at a low deposit ticket value is one could easily argue bad for business on opportunity cost, nest pas?

you could also argue that the existing team massively under performed under wenger last season.... they all will as hes not a winner BUT acquiring at the very least a genuine striker would certainly give you a fighting chance, however it would also admit defeat having called your existing striker 'world class' which frankly he is not. TH14, RvP were world class....

so in simple terms yes, great post but scratch at the surface and you will probably find a deeply arrogant frenchman so set in his ways that's too scared to spend big for fear of failure... and a board that admire the value of their swiss bank accounts on a daily basis.... and THAT is all.

wenger knows hes buying/guaranteeing his tenure at afc with his balance sheet. he is frankly a terrible tactician and not a motivator but alas a good economist.

is that such a good thing for a club that NOW actually has the financial clout to win something other than a cup that no one really takes seriously?

I have been saying for ages that i really don't think the Arsenal owners are at all bothered about winning the league.


Wenger has been an amazing manager when it comes to making money for the club. No wonder they pay him so handsomely.