The Official Scottish Football Thread
Discussion
WithMyApologies said:
Goading, plain and simple.
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=I5PORBIoeSY
If those Hibs fans weren't on the pitch, then NONE of this happens. It's as simple as that.
How anyone can even begin to apportion blame to Rangers fans, shows how bitter and twisted Scotland has become. Yes, they shouldn't have gone onto the pitch, but compared to the thousands of Hibs fans who started this event, it's a non-story.
Where are the police during this? What did they do to stop Hibs fans charging towards the Rangers end?
Serious questions should be raised against the SFA and the police. But no, it's all about how a few Rangers fans dared to defend themselves in the face of all of this.
Now, considering it is an offence to enter the field of play, I expect there to be thousands of arrests please for breach of the peace.
So there was a whole bunch of Hibs fans shouting abuse at Rangers fans winding them up. Rangers fans responded by giving them abuse. Rangers fans then burst into their songs to wind up the Hibs fans, then more Hibs fans joined in with their response. Tit for tat. https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=I5PORBIoeSY
If those Hibs fans weren't on the pitch, then NONE of this happens. It's as simple as that.
How anyone can even begin to apportion blame to Rangers fans, shows how bitter and twisted Scotland has become. Yes, they shouldn't have gone onto the pitch, but compared to the thousands of Hibs fans who started this event, it's a non-story.
Where are the police during this? What did they do to stop Hibs fans charging towards the Rangers end?
Serious questions should be raised against the SFA and the police. But no, it's all about how a few Rangers fans dared to defend themselves in the face of all of this.
Now, considering it is an offence to enter the field of play, I expect there to be thousands of arrests please for breach of the peace.
Edited by WithMyApologies on Monday 23 May 02:22
Edited by WithMyApologies on Monday 23 May 02:25
Yes Hibs fans should never have approached the Rangers fans, but they are goading each other.
What's the difference between shouting dogs abuse at each other for 90 minutes from their seats, or from the park?
If you've ever sat at the point of segregation at a game, goading, spitting, threats and the throwing stuff is normal. If fans then attacked each other we wouldn't stand here and say it was fine as they were goading each other.
So what's the difference between being 30 yards apart in the stand and 30 yards away on the park?
People chanting and winding you up is part of football. Your pal Technodup has been telling us for years that's all part of football that he enjoys, but then is on here crying like a baby anytime someone upsets his sensitive feelings. Seems a very common theme.
Chanting and winding people up does not justify violence. That's simply not a defence.
Edited by Driver101 on Monday 23 May 09:02
Edited by Driver101 on Monday 23 May 09:03
WithMyApologies said:
Any of you oh so innocent Celtic fans also care to answer why a Celtic fan was at the game?
https://twitter.com/1_pzj/status/73450583101059891...
I doubt he was the only one either.
The only reason I can think of as to why Celtic fans would be at the game, is for there to be trouble. Strange how that turned out isn't it?
Unless Celtic fans just love watching Rangers, I mean they do post about them on forums, newsgroups, newspaper comments, twitter, youtube....any place on the internet really, so I guess that's also possible.
Are Rangers fans really trawling through the internet for microscopic excuses? https://twitter.com/1_pzj/status/73450583101059891...
I doubt he was the only one either.
The only reason I can think of as to why Celtic fans would be at the game, is for there to be trouble. Strange how that turned out isn't it?
Unless Celtic fans just love watching Rangers, I mean they do post about them on forums, newsgroups, newspaper comments, twitter, youtube....any place on the internet really, so I guess that's also possible.
One Celtic fan at the game means what exactly?
Clutching at straws.
I agree with a lot of this.
http://wingsoverscotland.com/statements-of-the-obv...
I think pretty much everyone is laughing at that Rangers statement from last night. I guess the people who it calls out have a right to feel threatened.
I agree about the person who wrote it should be pulled up for s
t stirring.
http://wingsoverscotland.com/statements-of-the-obv...
I think pretty much everyone is laughing at that Rangers statement from last night. I guess the people who it calls out have a right to feel threatened.
I agree about the person who wrote it should be pulled up for s
t stirring. Edited by Driver101 on Monday 23 May 10:41
Edited by Driver101 on Monday 23 May 10:50
GloverMart said:
Same old, same old. 
Deliberate trolling from both sides, dragging up old stuff to prolong the problems, just like before. Either this thread calms down or it gets binned.
Your choice. Doesn't bother me either way.
This thread was created for fans of Scottish football outwith the old firm to be nice to each other and discuss their teams games.Deliberate trolling from both sides, dragging up old stuff to prolong the problems, just like before. Either this thread calms down or it gets binned.
Your choice. Doesn't bother me either way.
Rangers and Celtic have their own threads (if they're not closed by the mods. Again.)
The one thing the Wings prick got right, amongst the snidey references to 'Rangers' was the word unrepentant.
I'll not be taking any lessons on inclusiveness or harmony from one who seeks to divide at every turn, but this episode will only strengthen, entrench and further the divisions we have in Scottish football and in Scottish society more generally.
I think I'll make that my last comment, for it's impossible to a) reason with the mental, b) debate in terms that are 'appropriate' for a family forum.
I'll not be taking any lessons on inclusiveness or harmony from one who seeks to divide at every turn, but this episode will only strengthen, entrench and further the divisions we have in Scottish football and in Scottish society more generally.
I think I'll make that my last comment, for it's impossible to a) reason with the mental, b) debate in terms that are 'appropriate' for a family forum.
technodup said:
The one thing the Wings prick got right, amongst the snidey references to 'Rangers' was the word unrepentant.
I'll not be taking any lessons on inclusiveness or harmony from one who seeks to divide at every turn, but this episode will only strengthen, entrench and further the divisions we have in Scottish football and in Scottish society more generally.
I think I'll make that my last comment, for it's impossible to a) reason with the mental, b) debate in terms that are 'appropriate' for a family forum.
Oh come on.I'll not be taking any lessons on inclusiveness or harmony from one who seeks to divide at every turn, but this episode will only strengthen, entrench and further the divisions we have in Scottish football and in Scottish society more generally.
I think I'll make that my last comment, for it's impossible to a) reason with the mental, b) debate in terms that are 'appropriate' for a family forum.
This is not a Scottish society problem, this is a football problem.
Take people away from the football ground, take people off the football forums and seperate them from their mob mentality and everything is different.
It's sad Rangers instantly rounded on the SNP to make issues over football related violence.
Even when she made a good statement, as did Hibs, they are further attacked.
It was mindless thugs at a football park.
Driver101 said:
This is not a Scottish society problem, this is a football problem.
You don't get it. If you hadn't noticed (and the flags were at the game) Scotland is currently divided in two politically. If you can't see how the Rangers/Celtic (and Hibs)/unionist/Yes/Catholic/Protestant elements might be intertwined I can't help you.But Rangers have a massive chip on our shoulders the way it's perceived we've been treated by other clubs and fans over the last number of years. Throw in a No vote which seems to have been forgotten by the 'government' and half the population. Add that to historic religious tension and it's little wonder there's a siege mentality going on.
We've been under fire from everyone from the football authorities, the press, the courts, opposition fans, various dodgy owners, Mike Ashley, that d
head Wings and probably more I've forgotten. We went from the establishment, the top dogs, to the lowest of the low, financially, ethically and football wise. We've had to reap what we sowed (or had sowed for us) for four years. Remember whilst we loved the success and the big names it wasn't the fans who benefited from EBTs, or who borrowed the millions, or who milked the club dry. But it's the fans who have suffered. And every time some clever rival fan drops a 'Sevco' they suffer again. (Totally oblivious to the fact that every club bar Celtic is about two cancelled games away from admin themselves, but that's another issue).Sadly I don't see an end to this anytime soon. Rival fans will be giving it the 'Sevco' because it makes them feel superior. Rangers fans storing up every slight and injustice up in their minds, ready to explode at the first opportunity.
And for the avoidance of doubt, I'm not looking for scapegoats or anyone to blame. Those to blame were those who ran our club, starting with Murray and descending through the bus drivers, porn stars and wannabes who came later.
But to go back to my original point, this really is bigger than football. We're divided at school. We're divided at the ballot box. We're divided on the terraces. And until someone smarter than me finds a solution to some of those divisions nothing substantive will change.
Banning songs isn't working is it?
I see the young lad who went for Wallace was captured on video.
https://mobile.twitter.com/STVPaul/status/73432690...
It's not clear if he actually made contact, but there was clear intent there and he should be hammered for that.
Earlier reports that he was knocked to the ground, kicked by a number of Hibs fans before having to be rescued by other players and security don't appear to be correct.
Kenny Miller's wife had already posted that he wasn't assaulted or caught up in any incident. It now appears Dean Shield's family have made similar comments.
Fraser Wishart the head of the player's union put out an official statement yesterday. He mentions absolutely nothing about any assaults or alleged assaults. He talks about his members being "endangered" and "left open to threats and intimidation".
Surely the head of the union would contact his members before putting an accurate statement out? The assaults have obviously been heavily publicised, but why would he of all people not even want to mention them and downplay them as "threats and intimidation"?
Technodup, half the people that go to football didn't come through any religious school. Most people join in without a clue what they are on about. We've had this discussion before. The people who behave like animals at football don't behave like that in real life. The way people write and speak to each other on football forums is not how they'd post anywhere else either. It's made up mob mentality for most of them.
Rangers keep picking fights with everyone and that's why people are more upset than ever with them. We all agree that the events of Saturday were utterly shameful and an embarrassment to Scottish football. However on the back of that rather than sit down, investigate and work out facts, Rangers went steaming in picking fights with anyone they could calling the integrity of anyone they had previous issues with into question again. It was just cheap shots and is personal. It also appears to appease the fans when they take this aggressive approach.
Why even aim at the SNP hours after a football game? There is absolutely no way any professional person is going to get involved in such a situation without understanding what has happened. We were sitting watching on the TV and it was very unclear to us at the time.
It was only days later all the videos have come through. The more videos, pictures, statements and evidence that keeps cropping up makes the Rangers case weaker and weaker.
Rather than let an investigation take place Rangers are practically trying to bully the authorities from taking any action. How can any legal action be taken when Rangers are trying so hard to intimidate and use prejudice to influence the outcome within 5 minutes of the incident?
This is the part that annoys me. It's the act of defiance and innocence even before establishing any fact. As evidence is now been gathered the earlier Rangers statements are becoming even more embarrassing. They still keep getting dismissed as wrong and against Rangers.
People on that park have to take some responsibility for themselves. What happened at one side of the park doesn't justify someone battering someone at the other side of the park. They are completely different incidents that have to be judged on their own merits. There is going to be a lot of people on both sides charged with offences. That will more than likely cause more upset and anger even though they'll likely be very justified.
I see Foderingham social media posts copied into the news on the Sun.
He says no player should need to "evade" attack on the park. Again no mention of an actual physical assault, just the act of evading them.
Why is nobody repeating these claims of assault? All the comments and statements so far all either contradict that they happened, use weak terms, or completely fail to acknowledge them as having happened.
It is not beginning to sound a bit fishy?
https://mobile.twitter.com/STVPaul/status/73432690...
It's not clear if he actually made contact, but there was clear intent there and he should be hammered for that.
Earlier reports that he was knocked to the ground, kicked by a number of Hibs fans before having to be rescued by other players and security don't appear to be correct.
Kenny Miller's wife had already posted that he wasn't assaulted or caught up in any incident. It now appears Dean Shield's family have made similar comments.
Fraser Wishart the head of the player's union put out an official statement yesterday. He mentions absolutely nothing about any assaults or alleged assaults. He talks about his members being "endangered" and "left open to threats and intimidation".
Surely the head of the union would contact his members before putting an accurate statement out? The assaults have obviously been heavily publicised, but why would he of all people not even want to mention them and downplay them as "threats and intimidation"?
Technodup, half the people that go to football didn't come through any religious school. Most people join in without a clue what they are on about. We've had this discussion before. The people who behave like animals at football don't behave like that in real life. The way people write and speak to each other on football forums is not how they'd post anywhere else either. It's made up mob mentality for most of them.
Rangers keep picking fights with everyone and that's why people are more upset than ever with them. We all agree that the events of Saturday were utterly shameful and an embarrassment to Scottish football. However on the back of that rather than sit down, investigate and work out facts, Rangers went steaming in picking fights with anyone they could calling the integrity of anyone they had previous issues with into question again. It was just cheap shots and is personal. It also appears to appease the fans when they take this aggressive approach.
Why even aim at the SNP hours after a football game? There is absolutely no way any professional person is going to get involved in such a situation without understanding what has happened. We were sitting watching on the TV and it was very unclear to us at the time.
It was only days later all the videos have come through. The more videos, pictures, statements and evidence that keeps cropping up makes the Rangers case weaker and weaker.
Rather than let an investigation take place Rangers are practically trying to bully the authorities from taking any action. How can any legal action be taken when Rangers are trying so hard to intimidate and use prejudice to influence the outcome within 5 minutes of the incident?
This is the part that annoys me. It's the act of defiance and innocence even before establishing any fact. As evidence is now been gathered the earlier Rangers statements are becoming even more embarrassing. They still keep getting dismissed as wrong and against Rangers.
People on that park have to take some responsibility for themselves. What happened at one side of the park doesn't justify someone battering someone at the other side of the park. They are completely different incidents that have to be judged on their own merits. There is going to be a lot of people on both sides charged with offences. That will more than likely cause more upset and anger even though they'll likely be very justified.
I see Foderingham social media posts copied into the news on the Sun.
He says no player should need to "evade" attack on the park. Again no mention of an actual physical assault, just the act of evading them.
Why is nobody repeating these claims of assault? All the comments and statements so far all either contradict that they happened, use weak terms, or completely fail to acknowledge them as having happened.
It is not beginning to sound a bit fishy?
Edited by Driver101 on Tuesday 24th May 13:03
Edited by Driver101 on Tuesday 24th May 13:11
Does look awfy like Chinese whispers, beginning from the early reports of Foderingham on the deck (there was someone in red?), Wallace does get swung at (I think there's video evidence but it's unclear if he's hit), and of course all the other scraps going on at pitch level. I suppose we'll know the script once the investigations are complete.
AFAIK it's an absolute offence to enter the field of play at a football stadium? We're going to end up with fences if fans can't keep off the pitch I fear.
AFAIK it's an absolute offence to enter the field of play at a football stadium? We're going to end up with fences if fans can't keep off the pitch I fear.
Gordon Waddell was quite unequivocal.
"The denials of any assaults taking place are remarkable. I stood and watched at least two players and a coach taking a kicking"
From his Twitter.
It wouldn't be unreasonable to think certain players might be trying to avoid making the situation any worse. Not sure why some are looking for a conspiracy here.
"The denials of any assaults taking place are remarkable. I stood and watched at least two players and a coach taking a kicking"
From his Twitter.
It wouldn't be unreasonable to think certain players might be trying to avoid making the situation any worse. Not sure why some are looking for a conspiracy here.
technodup said:
Gordon Waddell was quite unequivocal.
"The denials of any assaults taking place are remarkable. I stood and watched at least two players and a coach taking a kicking"
From his Twitter.
It wouldn't be unreasonable to think certain players might be trying to avoid making the situation any worse. Not sure why some are looking for a conspiracy here.
Nobody is making denials that assaults took place. "The denials of any assaults taking place are remarkable. I stood and watched at least two players and a coach taking a kicking"
From his Twitter.
It wouldn't be unreasonable to think certain players might be trying to avoid making the situation any worse. Not sure why some are looking for a conspiracy here.
Did he mention who or what he witnessed? That'd be a normal thing to report. That'd be big news and sales or hits for his paper.
Some of the papers covered Fotheringham getting knocked to the ground. I read witness statements that they seen it happen. I've seen people watch the video and see its the goalkeeper sparked out.
After you've got 10 minutes to calm down you can see that the person they are all talking about isn't the goalkeeper and is at the completely wrong end of the crowd. Look how many people were utterly convinced it was true.
A paper said Wallace was to be punched and knocked to the ground, then set upon and kicked by numerous Hibs fans, then had to be rescued by fellow players and security.
We can now clearly see that didn't happen at all. Yet loads of people thought they could see that happen and reported they seen that happen.
It all happened at 100mph and not a person had a clue what was going on. Thousands of people on the pitch, arms, scarfs all flying everywhere, who knows what they witnessed.
How often do you watch a game of football and convince yourself you've seen something, maybe a handball or a trip, but watch it back and realise just how wrong you were? That's with 22 people on he park and not thousands.
I don't think anyone would downplay the incident. There's no point even trying to downplay it after the statement Rangers gave. 11 players assaulted and 6 requiring medical attention?
What's the point of saying something wrong to ease the situation if you later have to testify something different? That seriously weakens your evidence and credibility surely?
So far we've witnessed a push and the guy going for Wallace. We've also had a lot of witnesses appear like fools for making stuff up.
Cameras were focused on the players, missed any of the rest from happening, yet caught loads of the periphery?
RFC1 said:
Driver101. what are you trying to get out of this situation? Because it seems to me like you are simply aiming sly kicks towards Rangers at every opportunity.
I'm not aiming any sly digs. I think a lot of the stuff that has been reported is totally false. Half the people's accounts and opinion's are based on things that are completely wrong as proven by video.
Frankly I don't really care about a second by second account of what happened, I'm over it.
Bottom line is a lot of Hibs fans acted like pricks, a much smaller number of Rangers fans retaliated and some sang a banned song. The police and SFA can deal with it from there, with ALL the available evidence and I'm pretty sure on which side the most serious sanctions will fall.
Bottom line is a lot of Hibs fans acted like pricks, a much smaller number of Rangers fans retaliated and some sang a banned song. The police and SFA can deal with it from there, with ALL the available evidence and I'm pretty sure on which side the most serious sanctions will fall.
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