The Official Liverpool FC Thread [Vol 11]

[NRS]

SilverSpur said:

How many games did Rogers take from Kloops season in charge?

I assume it was around a dozen. Would Kloop have got more points had he been in charge then?> Probbaly I would guess.

SO to be fair to him, perhaps if in charge for all 38 league games you'd have finished higher.

Not too sure about that - but I do suspect we would have had a few more points in the last games of the season as we put out the reserves for those games to make sure the best team were fresh/ had time to train/ were less likely to get injured.

mr sagman said:

I said before the game ( and on many other occasions) that if we lose it will be probably down to Mignolet or Moreno.. They are the obvious weak link in an otherwise pretty solid unit.. I suppose with Flanno not eligable, and Gomez injured his left back options where somewhat limited, Just hope Moreno and Mignolet are conspicuous by their absence from next season.

I don't think Klopp does have faith in Moreno - just we have pretty much no options there at the moment (even more so for those registered for Europe). I suspect that will be the first priority in getting a new signing this summer.

[RWD cossie wil]

For the new season I think we need a quality left sided full back, and we need an all round midfielder in the Alonso mould, plus a very solid defensive midfielder, and a much better keeper.

4-5 top quality players in the right positions would see us a very competetive team IMHO, just our midfield lacks any real steel/ physical size.

[London424]

RWD cossie wil said:

For the new season I think we need a quality left sided full back, and we need an all round midfielder in the Alonso mould, plus a very solid defensive midfielder, and a much better keeper.

4-5 top quality players in the right positions would see us a very competetive team IMHO, just our midfield lacks any real steel/ physical size.

I think every team could do with 4-5 top quality players in the right positions!

[Adam B]

Jonnny said:

Adam B said:

No complaints about the ref here

Thought he was excellent and got all the big decisions right

Even the handballs?

The one with Firmino? I yelled for it at the time but no, he was too close, hands at his side, and seemed to be moving his arm behind back.

the other I must have missed as I was viewing the second half behind a double face palm

[ferrisbueller]

http://www.bbc.co.uk/sport/football/36326487

I think the gloves will be off now the season is over and he can choose some of his own players. He's protected certain characters. Now his true feelings will become known I think and clear to see in those who are "allowed to leave"....

[SilverSpur]

Adam B said:

Jonnny said:

Adam B said:

No complaints about the ref here

Thought he was excellent and got all the big decisions right

Even the handballs?

The one with Firmino? I yelled for it at the time but no, he was too close, hands at his side, and seemed to be moving his arm behind back.

the other I must have missed as I was viewing the second half behind a double face palm

They would have been given 2 seasons ago, now players are simply wasting their time appealing for them in my view.

We all know the rules have changed significantly on handball, just got to accept it.

The thing about the Ferminio hand ball is he was also brought down in the area by the challenge, but was too busy appealing for the hand ball.

[Flip Martian]

cerb4.5lee said:

Pommygranite said:

So....I like Klopp. Right manager for us 100%. But...he's had 60 (?) odd games with us so a full season and this is another Final failure for him. I do wonder if he is a very lovely organised chap but does he actually have a 'winning' mentality? I don't know but I would say that this isn't 'the players forgetting what's been taught' alone and Klopp must surely be part of the judgement.

Klopp has proved he is a winner in his career so I am hoping he carries this on eventually with us...but the longer the wait goes on and finishing lower in the league than Rodgers doesn't help, I never liked Rodgers much but he delivered more than Klopp up to yet.

I am hoping with his own team/players Klopp will come good but the inconsistency has drove us all mad this season for sure.

It would be nice to see (in an alternate universe) where BR would have finished with this team this season. To be honest, it did seem like the only way was mediocrity and a lot lower than 8th. He'd lost the team and they played with no confidence; getting used to not winning games.

I do think Klopp has a winning mentality but I did think we were very limited last night with the only Plan B being "stick more strikers and Joe Allen on". Hardly a genius stroke.

We'll all have a better idea next season.

[paulrockliffe]

SilverSpur said:

The thing about the Ferminio hand ball is he was also brought down in the area by the challenge, but was too busy appealing for the hand ball.

I thought that, but I don't think it would have been given for the collision either.

I think the rules are better as they, yes it touched the chaps hand, but so what? If there's no deliberate attempt to cheat, then it's not really any different to it hitting the ref or the corner flag.

[DuncanM]

I actually hope I end up looking like a prat for saying this, but I worry that Klopp is more Keegan than Mourinho.

He comes across as hugely passionate, and great with people, but we still have no plan b, and a defense that makes 90's Newcastle look solid.

Is Klopp a tactical genius?

[NRS]

DuncanM said:

I actually hope I end up looking like a prat for saying this, but I worry that Klopp is more Keegan than Mourinho.

He comes across as hugely passionate, and great with people, but we still have no plan b, and a defense that makes 90's Newcastle look solid.

Is Klopp a tactical genius?

What would you have done with the players we had available for a Plan B? We were 1 and then 2 goals down - so you need to play a striker. The only problem was we were not doing anything in the midfield so the strikers never got a chance. He either had to stick a bunch of strikers on and hope someone made something out of nothing, or try and take control of the midfield to get the game back. I'm not convinced any of our midfielders we had on the bench would have meant we took control of the midfield again. Thus he went for the striker option.

As for the defense I think it's actually ok-ish for the most part, but when you have Moreno he pulls the CBs out of position as they're so afraid he will (from past experience) mess up that they are then out of position and so holes appear there. You saw it yesterday. No real scares until Moreno messed up, and then after that we were all over the place. I think Klopp knows this, but he has no one else to play in Moreno's position so had to just go for it and hope it worked out. We do need a new centre back since Skrtel is poor these days, Toure is old and who knows how long Sakho will be gone, but I do think it will improve when Moreno is replaced there. When you combine Moreno with the issues Mignolet has it's not that surprising our defence panics like it does.

I don't think he's a tactical genius like some other managers, but I think he gets a lot out of the players for the way he wants to play. He just needs to have time to replace the players he thinks are weak before we can judge him properly.

[DuncanM]

NRS said:

DuncanM said:

I actually hope I end up looking like a prat for saying this, but I worry that Klopp is more Keegan than Mourinho.

He comes across as hugely passionate, and great with people, but we still have no plan b, and a defense that makes 90's Newcastle look solid.

Is Klopp a tactical genius?

What would you have done with the players we had available for a Plan B? We were 1 and then 2 goals down - so you need to play a striker. The only problem was we were not doing anything in the midfield so the strikers never got a chance. He either had to stick a bunch of strikers on and hope someone made something out of nothing, or try and take control of the midfield to get the game back. I'm not convinced any of our midfielders we had on the bench would have meant we took control of the midfield again. Thus he went for the striker option.

As for the defense I think it's actually ok-ish for the most part, but when you have Moreno he pulls the CBs out of position as they're so afraid he will (from past experience) mess up that they are then out of position and so holes appear there. You saw it yesterday. No real scares until Moreno messed up, and then after that we were all over the place. I think Klopp knows this, but he has no one else to play in Moreno's position so had to just go for it and hope it worked out. We do need a new centre back since Skrtel is poor these days, Toure is old and who knows how long Sakho will be gone, but I do think it will improve when Moreno is replaced there. When you combine Moreno with the issues Mignolet has it's not that surprising our defence panics like it does.

I don't think he's a tactical genius like some other managers, but I think he gets a lot out of the players for the way he wants to play. He just needs to have time to replace the players he thinks are weak before we can judge him properly.

I wasn't talking about just the one game.

"As for the defense I think it's actually ok-ish" <--- I'm amazed, our defense is absolutely shocking if you include the goalkeeper.

[jammy_basturd]

We've had some really solid defensive displays in the second half of this season. Just LB and GK that are the weak links. On their day they can lose us a match, but most of the time they are average or better.

Klopp is very good tactically, better than most managers in the PL, but he can't work miracles. After that first goal went in for Sevilla we just started lumping the ball forward and stopped playing our passing game. Not much you can do when our players just wanted to lump it up field. Not that they had much choice like, Sevilla's pressing game was much much better than ours in that second half.

[NRS]

DuncanM said:

I wasn't talking about just the one game.

"As for the defense I think it's actually ok-ish" <--- I'm amazed, our defense is absolutely shocking if you include the goalkeeper.

Clyne, Lovren and Sakho/Toure? Sakho can be a bit dodgy, but generally has been pretty good for the most part. Toure has generally done well when he's come in. Lovren has been much improved this season and had some very good games. No one has pointed out issues with Clyne. So 3 out of the 4 positions are pretty reasonable. Once you replace the LB (Gomez/ Flanno or someone new), and perhaps have another new CB (depending how the new signing fits in) for Sakho/ injuries then the actual defense is pretty decent. Then replace Mignolet on crosses and we could have a strong defense. Remember, however strange it may seem, that Mignolet kept the most clean sheets in the League in 2015, despite what we may feel/ see in our defense.

[DuncanM]

NRS said:

DuncanM said:

I wasn't talking about just the one game.

"As for the defense I think it's actually ok-ish" <--- I'm amazed, our defense is absolutely shocking if you include the goalkeeper.

Clyne, Lovren and Sakho/Toure? Sakho can be a bit dodgy, but generally has been pretty good for the most part. Toure has generally done well when he's come in. Lovren has been much improved this season and had some very good games. No one has pointed out issues with Clyne. So 3 out of the 4 positions are pretty reasonable. Once you replace the LB (Gomez/ Flanno or someone new), and perhaps have another new CB (depending how the new signing fits in) for Sakho/ injuries then the actual defense is pretty decent. Then replace Mignolet on crosses and we could have a strong defense. Remember, however strange it may seem, that Mignolet kept the most clean sheets in the League in 2015, despite what we may feel/ see in our defense.

I want to know how we can go from conceding 23 goals (PL) in 2013-14 season, to 50 this year?

I can't believe anyone seriously thinks our defense is ok, I watch through my hands every time the ball is in our defensive third.

[Cie]

DuncanM said:

I watch through my hands every time the ball is in our defensive third.

Your players do as well which is probably the problem.

[DuncanM]

Cie said:

DuncanM said:

I watch through my hands every time the ball is in our defensive third.

Your players do as well which is probably the problem.

I know you're joking, but sometimes it genuinely feels like that!

[BossHogg]

Ah, but is he joking?

[NRS]

DuncanM said:

I want to know how we can go from conceding 23 goals (PL) in 2013-14 season, to 50 this year?

I can't believe anyone seriously thinks our defense is ok, I watch through my hands every time the ball is in our defensive third.

I said "ok-ish for the most part". You saw it in the final - Toure our best place IMO, despite us losing by 3 goals. Lovren has done well recently too. The problem is when they have to cover for Moreno because he is useless in defense, and that means they are out of position compared to their normal placement. Then the gaps appear and we get ripped apart. Earlier in the season I was very worried about our defense whenever the ball got near, but it does seem to be a lot better generally now apart from set pieces. Watch what happens when Moreno goes - I think we will see Clyne and Lovren stay in the first team, and potentially Toure although maybe Sakho will be back/ Matip will play instead. I also suspect we will be a lot more solid next season if we do that.

I'm not meaning the actual defense is good now, just we don't need to change all the players, just by changing one (and the goalkeeper) we should be a lot stronger.

[paulrockliffe]

DuncanM said:

I want to know how we can go from conceding 23 goals (PL) in 2013-14 season, to 50 this year?

I don't think the defense is any worse now. I think out attack that year pinned other teams back, made them play more defensively. I bet we had more possession and the opposition had a lot less possession in places they could score from.

Anyone know what's going to happen with Sakho? Don't forget we've already got Matip for next season and Gomez should be available again I hope.

[Eddw86]

DuncanM said:

I actually hope I end up looking like a prat for saying this, but I worry that Klopp is more Keegan than Mourinho.

He comes across as hugely passionate, and great with people, but we still have no plan b, and a defense that makes 90's Newcastle look solid.

Is Klopp a tactical genius?

Interesting analogy, for what it's worth I'm generally a cynic when ever anybody comes in all hyped up, and the media love in is a bit over the top. Though refreshing after the media hate in that followed Rafa around and no doubt distracting him and the players.

I think there has been improvement under Klopp - Rodgers was a tactical disaster for me, he rarely beat any of the old fashioned top 4/5 teams, never got the team to a final in his three years and whilst he did bring us that fantastic season it always felt like a bit of a fluke. Klopp has beaten or been the equal of all the top4 teams and many bigger teams in Europe, so he clearly can play different styles of football. If I'm honest I'm not sure how much of the second half performance was poor tactics or just a team who were playing like zombies, and Moreno being Moreno.

Since Klopps has come in we have become a more solid and progressive team, I think the stats back that up if you look at our stats since Christmas or January. It's offset by the fact he clearly prioritised the Europa League damaging our league form and consistency towards the end and Im not sure that was the right decision.

Agree on the inconsistency being utterly maddening. New keeper, a solid centre back to pair with Lovren and build a partnership and a better left back - Gomez to come back too will massively help the consistency.

So in summary - Klopp, not the Messiah but definitely an improvement and evidence of progress so lets be positive and give him time. Especially given the frankly awful team he has to work with him.


P.S Moreno, quick, not actually that good at going forward - rarely delivers an end product, a liability at the back, far too many occasions this season hes been the cause of something. Not a fan!