Champions league last 8, are they kidding or is it just me ?
Discussion
The only easy draw is Benfica & even they aren't a push over. It could have looked unfair if anyone had pulled them out. I expect all those games to be close & there could easily be an 'upset' i.e Barca or Madrid get knocked out....I'd actually argue that City are as weak as Benfica on current form...
Black can man said:
CL draw: Man City v PSG, Barcelona v A Madrid, Wolfsburg v R Madrid, Bayern v Benfica
The big four that Uefa would like in the semi's all avoid each other
Wow ! who'd of thought that eh ?
I doubt UEFA would have wanted Bayern v Juve in the round of 16. So what went wrong with the rigged draw then? The big four that Uefa would like in the semi's all avoid each other
Wow ! who'd of thought that eh ?
http://www.skysports.com/football/news/11945/10216...
Format changes being considered. More games and more participation by the big clubs.
Format changes being considered. More games and more participation by the big clubs.
NailedOn said:
http://www.skysports.com/football/news/11945/10216...
Format changes being considered. More games and more participation by the big clubs.
It's discusting. European football killed off by a weak kneed, corrupt, vision lacking UEFA and a couple of arrogant clubs who think they own EU football.Format changes being considered. More games and more participation by the big clubs.
The format been changed considerably twice before;
- 1997 first year when two clubs per country's could enter, not just the champions anymore;
- In 2001 (or 2002) under pressure from Bayern (chairman of the organisation of top clubs), Real and Barcelona threatening to form a European leaque of their own. Subsequently the top 4 (Spain, Germany, England and Italy) got multiple CL participants, 3 to 4. And even 5 since lasts seasons smaller change of the EL winner getting an extra entry, resulting into 5 Spanish CL participants this season.
And that's not all, the clever 4 pot system + clubs from the same country's being unable to draw each other before the CL 1/4 final, meant the big nations and the big clubs within those nations were given a statistical multiplier. A free pass to CL football first which quickly evolved in a right of way to the CL knock out stages with years going by. All guaranteeing a yearly stream of funds available from direct and indirect (sponsorships, tv rights, etc.) CL money.
Since 2001 the top 4 of the UEFA ranking never changed (except for Italy sliding from 1st to 4th due to obvious reasons) meaning from a sporting standpoint the UEFA based CL participants ranking is dead. CL has very quickly become a leaque based on privileges based on wealth first, second and third, and sporting achievements just being the very obvious and predictable outcome. Success is bought, far less crafted.
Add to that the vast difference in price money between the CL and EL (factor 10 in the early years) and the end result is that the natural differences between the big nations (enbaling them to attract higher TV rights money in the first place) and the big clubs within those big nations, became unnaturally bigger helped by the UEFA multiplier.
And now the Bayerns of this world want to change it again, with the same threat in hand creating a tournament even more to their favor. Ironically enough all based on arguments which created their dominant position in the first place. They don't want to play the smaller clubs anymore, the same clubs they once were themselves more or less.
Edited by DeltonaS on Thursday 24th March 16:56
DeltonaS said:
It's discusting. European football killed off by a weak kneed, corrupt, vision lacking UEFA and a couple of arrogant clubs who think they own EU football.
The format been changed considerably twice before;
- 1997 first year when two clubs per country's could enter, not just the champions anymore;
- In 2001 (or 2002) under pressure from Bayern (chairman of the organisation of top clubs), Real and Barcelona threatening to form a European leaque of their own. Subsequently the top 4 (Spain, Germany, England and Italy) got multiple CL participants, 3 to 4. And even 5 since lasts seasons smaller change of the EL winner getting an extra entry, resulting into 5 Spanish CL participants this season.
And that's not all, the clever 4 pot system + clubs from the same country's being unable to draw each other before the CL 1/4 final, meant the big nations and the big clubs within those nations were given a statistical multiplier. A free pass to CL football first which quickly evolved in a right of way to the CL knock out stages with years going by. All guaranteeing a yearly stream of funds available from direct and indirect (sponsorships, tv rights, etc.) CL money.
Since 2001 the top 4 of the UEFA ranking never changed (except for Italy sliding from 1st to 4th due to obvious reasons) meaning from a sporting standpoint the UEFA based CL participants ranking is dead. CL has very quickly become a leaque based on privileges based on wealth first, second and third, and sporting achievements just being the very obvious and predictable outcome. Success is bought, far less crafted.
Add to that the vast difference in price money between the CL and EL (factor 10 in the early years) and the end result is that the natural differences between the big nations (enbaling them to attract higher TV rights money in the first place) and the big clubs within those big nations, became unnaturally bigger helped by the UEFA multiplier.
And now with the above in hand the Bayerns of this world want to change it again with the same threat in hand and even more to their favor. Ironically enough all based on arguments which created their dominant position in the first place, they don't want to play the smaller clubs anymore. The same clubs they once were themselves more or less.
All bThe format been changed considerably twice before;
- 1997 first year when two clubs per country's could enter, not just the champions anymore;
- In 2001 (or 2002) under pressure from Bayern (chairman of the organisation of top clubs), Real and Barcelona threatening to form a European leaque of their own. Subsequently the top 4 (Spain, Germany, England and Italy) got multiple CL participants, 3 to 4. And even 5 since lasts seasons smaller change of the EL winner getting an extra entry, resulting into 5 Spanish CL participants this season.
And that's not all, the clever 4 pot system + clubs from the same country's being unable to draw each other before the CL 1/4 final, meant the big nations and the big clubs within those nations were given a statistical multiplier. A free pass to CL football first which quickly evolved in a right of way to the CL knock out stages with years going by. All guaranteeing a yearly stream of funds available from direct and indirect (sponsorships, tv rights, etc.) CL money.
Since 2001 the top 4 of the UEFA ranking never changed (except for Italy sliding from 1st to 4th due to obvious reasons) meaning from a sporting standpoint the UEFA based CL participants ranking is dead. CL has very quickly become a leaque based on privileges based on wealth first, second and third, and sporting achievements just being the very obvious and predictable outcome. Success is bought, far less crafted.
Add to that the vast difference in price money between the CL and EL (factor 10 in the early years) and the end result is that the natural differences between the big nations (enbaling them to attract higher TV rights money in the first place) and the big clubs within those big nations, became unnaturally bigger helped by the UEFA multiplier.
And now with the above in hand the Bayerns of this world want to change it again with the same threat in hand and even more to their favor. Ironically enough all based on arguments which created their dominant position in the first place, they don't want to play the smaller clubs anymore. The same clubs they once were themselves more or less.
ks isn't it , Don't forget that football is a business and not a sport anymore. The Premier League saw to that and the TV revenues are just amazing given what they were 25 years ago.
I don't know about corruption, but I do think that this is about businesses creating an unfair playing field for themselves to exploit the wealth for themselves.
The fans are barely customers anymore with the TV companies having taken that role. The fans are seen as cash cows and it surprises me that the average person can afford to go to a game nevermind take the family.
This is just the latest step to a European based league with just the big clubs in it... Leicester City have been amazing this year and I hope they win the title and disrupt the big business dreams
I don't know about corruption, but I do think that this is about businesses creating an unfair playing field for themselves to exploit the wealth for themselves.
The fans are barely customers anymore with the TV companies having taken that role. The fans are seen as cash cows and it surprises me that the average person can afford to go to a game nevermind take the family.
This is just the latest step to a European based league with just the big clubs in it... Leicester City have been amazing this year and I hope they win the title and disrupt the big business dreams
DeltonaS said:
Black can man said:
All bks isn't it ,
What is ?ks isn't it , Oh & another cup that nobody wants to be in.
Money, Money Money & more money is sadly what it all comes down to.
I'm not a fan .
The jiffle king said:
Don't forget that football is a business and not a sport anymore.
The jiffle king said:
The Premier League saw to that and the TV revenues are just amazing given what they were 25 years ago.
I don't know about corruption, but I do think that this is about businesses creating an unfair playing field for themselves to exploit the wealth for themselves.
The fans are barely customers anymore with the TV companies having taken that role. The fans are seen as cash cows and it surprises me that the average person can afford to go to a game nevermind take the family.
This is just the latest step to a European based league with just the big clubs in it... Leicester City have been amazing this year and I hope they win the title and disrupt the big business dreams
The PL itself did and does great and should be applauded for it (apart from the effect all the billionaire owners have, something which is not possible in the German leaque). And the TV right money is shared by a fair quotient based on the outcome of the ranking, like it should. You can even see what all the money available, even with smaller clubs, has on the creating more equality. I don't know about corruption, but I do think that this is about businesses creating an unfair playing field for themselves to exploit the wealth for themselves.
The fans are barely customers anymore with the TV companies having taken that role. The fans are seen as cash cows and it surprises me that the average person can afford to go to a game nevermind take the family.
This is just the latest step to a European based league with just the big clubs in it... Leicester City have been amazing this year and I hope they win the title and disrupt the big business dreams
So that's not under debate. What's under debate is what's the mission and goal of UEFA is ? "All for the beautifull game", disclaimer only applies to Barcelona, Madrid, Munich and sometimes Manchester ?
And who's in the lead, clubs like Bayern and Barca ? or the UEFA as organizer and responsible party itself ?
Don't forget that for instance back in 2001, 2002, 2003 the CL final stages were much more divers than they are now after 15 years of the UEFA multiplier. And please make a revenue calculation based on a country which has 4 CL clubs yearly and one with only 1 (or none), add the indirect revenues as higher sponsorship deals + the impact it has on (also domestic) tv-right money. And all that, let's say, over a period of 10 years.
Conclusion; the UEFA should make the choice to either support a full on EU leaque (sort of NBA style) OR organise EU football as it used to be based on the domestic leaques being the dominant factor.
And the UEFA lacks vision on almost every aspect on EU football:
- Refereeing technology (still not implemented)
- Youth players and players on loan; clubs like Chelsea and Man.City are enabled to have more than 50 players per club out on loan incl. mostly youth players and all mainly for trade.
- UEFA does nothing against the ridiculous football agent fees
- etc.
Edited by DeltonaS on Thursday 24th March 19:02
Black can man said:
DeltonaS said:
Black can man said:
All bks isn't it ,
What is ?ks isn't it , Oh & another cup that nobody wants to be in.
Money, Money Money & more money is sadly what it all comes down to.
I'm not a fan .
Back in the day, winning the Fairs/ UEFA or Cup Winners Cup, meant something. They were worth competing for.
The premier league has done many good things for the game, but the sooner fans realize that making money is becoming more important than it used to be and winning trophies might help make money, but it's not the intention of the business. Look at Newcastle as an example of a club that has shown it's disregard for winning trophies over staying in the cash cow of a premier league.
UEFA is a mess and the whole Fifa debacle is an embarrassment. Yet we trust these people to run a sport which is the most popular in the world and many seem to make basic mistakes. Shocking!!
UEFA is a mess and the whole Fifa debacle is an embarrassment. Yet we trust these people to run a sport which is the most popular in the world and many seem to make basic mistakes. Shocking!!
Black can man said:
TwigtheWonderkid said:
I doubt UEFA would have wanted Bayern v Juve in the round of 16. So what went wrong with the rigged draw then?
I bet they were pleased with that tie, what a tie that was & certainly the best of the tournament so far & unlikely to be bettered IMHO.Black can man said:
The way UEFA have basically ruined a great format of 3 prestigious European trophies that had some epic memorable nights to what is now basically just gigs for the top half a dozen teams in Europe who can afford to lose a few games & still win the thing.
Oh & another cup that nobody wants to be in.
Money, Money Money & more money is sadly what it all comes down to.
I'm not a fan .
That's all true, but you can't deny the the CL has produced some fantastic entertainment since it started. There's a fair amount of rose tinted specs about the old European cup. It was great in its way, but it wasn't perfect. Steaua Bucharest boring their way to victory in 1986 for example. Oh & another cup that nobody wants to be in.
Money, Money Money & more money is sadly what it all comes down to.
I'm not a fan .
TwigtheWonderkid said:
Black can man said:
The way UEFA have basically ruined a great format of 3 prestigious European trophies that had some epic memorable nights to what is now basically just gigs for the top half a dozen teams in Europe who can afford to lose a few games & still win the thing.
Oh & another cup that nobody wants to be in.
Money, Money Money & more money is sadly what it all comes down to.
I'm not a fan .
That's all true, but you can't deny the the CL has produced some fantastic entertainment since it started. There's a fair amount of rose tinted specs about the old European cup. It was great in its way, but it wasn't perfect. Steaua Bucharest boring their way to victory in 1986 for example. Oh & another cup that nobody wants to be in.
Money, Money Money & more money is sadly what it all comes down to.
I'm not a fan .
Lest be fair here there are only really 4 teams that can win it these days. Leicester city & to a degree Spurs have made this seasons premiership one of the best premier leagues ever because of the unpredictability of it all, Back before the huge money was branded around in European football you never knew who'd win the cup , the two favourites could have been drawn together leaving the door open for the smaller team to have their day, sadly this will not ever happen i fear.
Black can man said:
The old European cup system gave teams with lesser fame or riches get to the final & win the cup. Forest, Malmo, Borussia Mönchengladbach , Club brugge & Hamburg & even Leeds United to name a few achieved this.
Lest be fair here there are only really 4 teams that can win it these days. Leicester city & to a degree Spurs have made this seasons premiership one of the best premier leagues ever because of the unpredictability of it all, Back before the huge money was branded around in European football you never knew who'd win the cup , the two favourites could have been drawn together leaving the door open for the smaller team to have their day, sadly this will not ever happen i fear.
But the old European Cup was still, in the main, dominated by the big clubs, Liverpool, Juve, R Madrid, AC & Inter Milan, B Munich, Ajax. See your 1st para, only Forest and Hamburg won the old EC. The other 4 didn't. Nothing much has changed. Smaller teams can still win the CL, as Porto did.Lest be fair here there are only really 4 teams that can win it these days. Leicester city & to a degree Spurs have made this seasons premiership one of the best premier leagues ever because of the unpredictability of it all, Back before the huge money was branded around in European football you never knew who'd win the cup , the two favourites could have been drawn together leaving the door open for the smaller team to have their day, sadly this will not ever happen i fear.
Leicester will be far shorter odds to win the CL next season than the 5000/1 they were to win the Prem.
I think you're looking back on it with undue sentimentality and affection. But as I always say, nostalgia ain't what it used to be.
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