Insurance & total loss question?

[angrymoby]

Just after a bit info/opinion with regard to 'total loss' & Insurance companies

The long short story...

Involved in an accident a couple of months ago, 100% other parties fault.

Other parties Insurance company contact me directly (Tesco's) apologise & offer to handle everything- I agree (oh hindsight )

My car's damage is bonnet/bumper/front wing (still perfectly driveable- just looks a mess) ...it's an old SAAB so appreciate it'll probably be a total loss.

I get a quote (£900 labour & materials but not parts)

Other parties Insurance send out engineer to assess.

Other parties Insurance Cat C it.

Offer won't be enough to get a replacement 'like for like' vehicle (i've provided Ebay links to like for like & prices which they refuse to accept)...i want a like for like so i can transfer roof rack & tow bar which i use a lot, otherwise ill be out of pocket.

They offer a cash alternative, so i can keep the car ...Offer just about covers labour & materials, but not parts- again, ill be out of pocket even if i source/ supply S/H parts.

I ask for X amount as fair settlement (£1700)

Anyone been through similar & got any advice? ...seems to me to be massively unfair that i will be out of pocket for being involved in an accident that was in no way shape or form my fault (in fact, the other parties driving was one of the most idiotic pieces of driving i've seen on the road ...'attemting' an unsafe u-turn on a dual carriage way)

Current state of affairs- i've told Tesco's i'm handing the whole mess over to my insurer Monday morning & they can deal with any subsequent interim legal fees/charges/hire car fees.

Slight fly in the ointment is i've changed Insurers in the meantime (although previous Insurer was informed, so shouldn't be too much of a problem- although i doubt they'll try too hard)

Any info/advice/opinion much appreciated

& mods, please feel free to move in i've posted in the wrong area

Ta

[MJK 24]

I had similar hassles in 2009.

Third party insurers admitted full liability and said they'd look after me. Car (old Scirocco) declared Cat C for non availability of parts. Was offered £250 for the car. I had many adverts and suggesting the value was £1,500. Ended up handing it over to 'Ambulance Chasing' solicitors recommended to me by my own insurers.

I eventually got £1,650 and to keep the car which was repaired at a cost to me of £55 plus a VOSA inspection which was about £30.

[TwigtheWonderkid]

angrymoby said:

Offer won't be enough to get a replacement 'like for like' vehicle (i've provided Ebay links to like for like & prices which they refuse to accept)...

I ask for X amount as fair settlement (£1700)

Write to the other driver saying his insurers won't settle and giving him 7 days to agree £1700 as per the adverts supplied to their insurer for similar vehicles, or else you'll issue a small claims court summons. And then issue a small claims court summons. Very easy, you can do it online. The cost of the summons gets added to your claim.

[Mr Tidy]

TwigtheWonderkid said:

Write to the other driver saying his insurers won't settle and giving him 7 days to agree £1700 as per the adverts supplied to their insurer for similar vehicles, or else you'll issue a small claims court summons. And then issue a small claims court summons. Very easy, you can do it online. The cost of the summons gets added to your claim.

That is an option, but if you don't feel confident going the litigation route yourself I would go with MJK 24s suggestion of a "No-Win, No Fee" solicitor. It will cost them more that way too when they get the legal costs!

From past experience I wouldn't want to involve my own insurer - they are just as likely to make an insulting offer and probably less likely to let you keep the car (assuming you might want to).

Hope you get it sorted!

[RMK87]

A no win no feee solicitor wont take your case on if it just involves your vehicle damage claim (as they make nothing)

They would want to deal with your personal injury + vehicle damage claim as they then make 25% of your injury + fixed costs.

[hoppo4.2]

In form tesco that you will be referring the case to the insurance ombudsman.

[catman]

hoppo4.2 said:

In form tesco that you will be referring the case to the insurance ombudsman.

You can't. You don't have a contract with the other driver's Insurer. You can only do that with your own Insurer.

Tim

[ZOLLAR]

hoppo4.2 said:

In form tesco that you will be referring the case to the insurance ombudsman.

Not an option, Tesco have no contract with the OP.
He can only go to the Ombudsman if he was dissatisfied with his own insurer, they may give him advice on how to handle it but they won't open a case.

That aside even if it was the OP own insurer the ombudsman would only review if the offer is fair, if the insurer can show they've followed the relevant guidelines that FOS set out about settlements (not using adverts but use glasses etc) they'll find in favour of the insurer.

Finally, so many people use the old "I'm going to the ombudsman" these days it's not actually a concern for the insurer, FOS have been around so long that most insurers will have their procedures bang in line so that they know the outcome before it even gets reviewed, it's only a concern if there's been a serious screw up by the insurer would it likely cause a problem.

Granted there is the £550 fee but in many cases the insurer will run the complaint rather than pay the extra, rather pay the handling fee to the FOS than someone trying to use pressure tactics to get more money.

[TwigtheWonderkid]

Mr Tidy said:

TwigtheWonderkid said:

Write to the other driver saying his insurers won't settle and giving him 7 days to agree £1700 as per the adverts supplied to their insurer for similar vehicles, or else you'll issue a small claims court summons. And then issue a small claims court summons. Very easy, you can do it online. The cost of the summons gets added to your claim.

That is an option, but if you don't feel confident going the litigation route yourself .....

Just have a go. You don't have to be Rumpole of the Bailey. My cat could do it. It's beyond easy. People get intimidated because it's legal stuff, but they shouldn't do. It's child's play. If you can read and write, you can do it. (OK, that rules my cat out).

[98elise]

TwigtheWonderkid said:

Mr Tidy said:

TwigtheWonderkid said:

Write to the other driver saying his insurers won't settle and giving him 7 days to agree £1700 as per the adverts supplied to their insurer for similar vehicles, or else you'll issue a small claims court summons. And then issue a small claims court summons. Very easy, you can do it online. The cost of the summons gets added to your claim.

That is an option, but if you don't feel confident going the litigation route yourself .....

Just have a go. You don't have to be Rumpole of the Bailey. My cat could do it. It's beyond easy. People get intimidated because it's legal stuff, but they shouldn't do. It's child's play. If you can read and write, you can do it. (OK, that rules my cat out).

Agreed. I've gone this route a few times. Its as simple as getting your evidence togather, filling out a form, then sitting with a judge to decide who is right.

You both get to state your case, ask questions, then the judge decides. I would really recommend this to anyone who is getting nowhere with a dispute. In my experience the judge will cut through bullst and opinion, and will just want to hear facts.

[angrymoby]

Cool & cheers for the info guys

Ill contact Tesco's one final time, outlining the following...

After talking to my Insurer & taking legal advice I would like...

THEM/Tesco's to supply a 'like for like' vehicle including engineers report/inspection (so i know it's as much as possible kosha) ...i've dug out the original receipt & specification (it has pretty much every available option ticked!- which ill fwd) so they can do the leg work (i'm pretty sure they wont/ wont want to) They can sort transporting it too

I've also looked on Autotrader (their suggestion) for suitables (& they're actually higher in price than Ebay- doh!) which ill fwd

OR they send a cheque for the original body shop quote, plus parts (suitable S/H ones- sourced by the body shop) plus hire car costs for how long it goes in for (approx 1 week)

Failure to do so in the next 5 days & ill proceed sorting things myself (by doing one of the above- whichever is the most suitable/convenient to me)

& ill be contacting the other party directly, mentioning how unsatisfactory their Insurer has been & that i have no option but to start court proceedings against them, to recover my losses

& then prepare to go through the small claims court (which i'd hope i'd be ok with- as i've recently pretty much sorted my own divorce )

[ZOLLAR]

One of two things will happen.

1) The insurer will not be bothered with the hassle and increase their settlement (No chance will they source you a second hand Saab)

2)They will have all their evidence in order and meet you in court which could cost you more in the long term.

Do remember you won't have been the first person to have tried this with an insurance company (who all have departments full of legally trained staff)

I'm not saying it won't work but bear in mind a few posts from strangers on the internet won't mean squat in court, it's 50/50

[TooMany2cvs]

angrymoby said:

After talking to my Insurer & taking legal advice I would like...

THEM/Tesco's to supply a 'like for like' vehicle including engineers report/inspection

Ain't going to happen.

angrymoby said:

OR they send a cheque for the original body shop quote, plus parts (suitable S/H ones- sourced by the body shop) plus hire car costs for how long it goes in for (approx 1 week)

Ain't going to happen.

They're going to write it off and pay you out the value of it. All that you're arguing about is the value of your car immediately before it was bent. You want it fixing? Buy it back and fix it.

[angrymoby]

ZOLLAR said:

One of two things will happen.

1) The insurer will not be bothered with the hassle and increase their settlement (No chance will they source you a second hand Saab)

2)They will have all their evidence in order and meet you in court which could cost you more in the long term.

Do remember you won't have been the first person to have tried this with an insurance company (who all have departments full of legally trained staff)

I'm not saying it won't work but bear in mind a few posts from strangers on the internet won't mean squat in court, it's 50/50

Yeah ...i'm not holding out much hope tbh- it's more of an olive branch, so i can present to the court that i've tried to be more than reasonable.

I have spoken to a legal- who basically confirmed what peeps have said above & that the best form of recourse is making a small claim directly, collate as much info as possible- keep all receipts & in their opinion it's pretty much a done deal. i.e i shouldn't be at a loss at all

[TooMany2cvs]

angrymoby said:

so i can present to the court that i've tried to be more than reasonable.

What did the ombudsman rule?
http://www.financial-ombudsman.org.uk/publications...

Because, if you've not been through them, you will lose the court case.

[angrymoby]

TooMany2cvs said:

Ain't going to happen.

They're going to write it off and pay you out the value of it. All that you're arguing about is the value of your car immediately before it was bent. You want it fixing? Buy it back and fix it.

I'm nothing to do with them ...they're not my insurer

& i can't fix it (even with S/H parts) for the amount they're offering (see above)

I'm surprised Insurers get away with this sort of stuff tbh ...fair enough haggle with your own customers/client, but when your client causes an accident, the other party (me) shouldn't suffer any loss at all. I don't think it's unreasonable for them to either:

a. completely cover the loss (i.e write a cheque for a replacement)
b. supply an acceptable replacement
c. pay for a suitable repair

& as above, shouldn't be upto MY insurer to try & wash their hands of it either ...if i was still insured by them, they'd be getting as much grief to sort properly (i.e no loss to me)

[TooMany2cvs]

angrymoby said:

TooMany2cvs said:

Ain't going to happen.

They're going to write it off and pay you out the value of it. All that you're arguing about is the value of your car immediately before it was bent. You want it fixing? Buy it back and fix it.

I'm nothing to do with them ...they're not my insurer

Makes no difference.

angrymoby said:

& i can't fix it (even with S/H parts) for the amount they're offering (see above)

Makes no difference.

angrymoby said:

I'm surprised Insurers get away with this sort of stuff tbh ...fair enough haggle with your own customers/client, but when your client causes an accident, the other party (me) shouldn't suffer any loss at all. I don't think it's unreasonable for them to either:

a. completely cover the loss (i.e write a cheque for a replacement)
b. supply an acceptable replacement
c. pay for a suitable repair

No, the one and only thing they have to do is d. Pay you the value of the vehicle immediately before it got bent.

Edited by TooMany2cvs on Monday 26th September 09:56

[angrymoby]

TooMany2cvs said:

No, the one and only thing they have to do is d. Pay you the value of the vehicle immediately before it got bent.

Actually they don't ...as i'm not claiming against the Insurer, well that's what the legal bod said. So we shall see (& for the £100 initial punt at the small claims court there isn't really much to lose)

Ill you keep you all updated

[KungFuPanda]

TwigtheWonderkid said:

Write to the other driver saying his insurers won't settle and giving him 7 days to agree £1700 as per the adverts supplied to their insurer for similar vehicles, or else you'll issue a small claims court summons. And then issue a small claims court summons. Very easy, you can do it online. The cost of the summons gets added to your claim.

Pretty stupid advice if you ask me. Insurers are there to idemnify their client for claims arising out of accidents so all the third party will do is pass the papers onto his insurers where they will just defend the claim on quantum if they feel the need to. In the meantime, by issuing for the cost of the vehicle, you've stopped yourself from claiming for any other heads of damage ie personal injury as all heads of damages have to be included in one set of proceedings.

Edited by KungFuPanda on Monday 26th September 10:01

[dacouch]

Bear in mind that car adverts are the price the seller is willing to start negotiating down from.