Discussion
Your PSR hearing concluded on Friday apparently, with results set to be announced "this week".
Feels very odd for yours to be announced before ours is announced , even more so heard (Everton) - AFAIK we are a few weeks away from our hearing. I suppose it was inevitable once they heard them sequentially, but it all feels very much made up on the spot. And if it's different boards, why couldn't they be heard concurrently? How would they deal with 4 or 5 clubs, stretch it out over 3 months??
Also there was a definite air of "we don't want to announce the appeal result right before a game in case it influences it - positively or negatively" with our appeal...They surely wouldn't release your verdict right before the Luton game, which is massive (for all 3 clubs)?
Is 6 points pretty much a best case scenario, or are you more optimistic than that?? Worst case...8?? I was optimistic that we'd get a lesser punishment this time round, but that has evaporated now. I think we'll both get 6. Which pulls us both down into a 3 way dogfight with Luton.
Are your accounts from 22/23 in the public domain yet? Ours aren't, but Liverpool released theirs a week or so ago (show offs
). Think clubs have til the end of the month, but in both our cases I can't see the reason for keeping fans in the dark, if they've already been submitted.
Any appeal set not to be heard until April and not announced until May??? I can't see the issue with that...
Feels very odd for yours to be announced before ours is announced , even more so heard (Everton) - AFAIK we are a few weeks away from our hearing. I suppose it was inevitable once they heard them sequentially, but it all feels very much made up on the spot. And if it's different boards, why couldn't they be heard concurrently? How would they deal with 4 or 5 clubs, stretch it out over 3 months??
Also there was a definite air of "we don't want to announce the appeal result right before a game in case it influences it - positively or negatively" with our appeal...They surely wouldn't release your verdict right before the Luton game, which is massive (for all 3 clubs)?
Is 6 points pretty much a best case scenario, or are you more optimistic than that?? Worst case...8?? I was optimistic that we'd get a lesser punishment this time round, but that has evaporated now. I think we'll both get 6. Which pulls us both down into a 3 way dogfight with Luton.
Are your accounts from 22/23 in the public domain yet? Ours aren't, but Liverpool released theirs a week or so ago (show offs
). Think clubs have til the end of the month, but in both our cases I can't see the reason for keeping fans in the dark, if they've already been submitted.Any appeal set not to be heard until April and not announced until May??? I can't see the issue with that...
I thought Friday was the day for the punishment to be announced?
I'm still hopeful we will get no points deducted, or 3 points deducted but suspended for 2 years. Given we could have sold Bren in June for what Brentford had offered and avoided this whole situation, but chose not to for sound financial reasons, it seems odd for us to be punished. I think our constant dialogue with the EPL should help our case.
I think the sale may also make the 22/23 accounts as a post year end event, but I'm not sufficiently qualified to really know much about this.
A suspended penalty makes sense to me, as it gives the EPL an out just before the rules change, and avoids the nightmare of the season ending before appeals have been heard.
I'm still hopeful we will get no points deducted, or 3 points deducted but suspended for 2 years. Given we could have sold Bren in June for what Brentford had offered and avoided this whole situation, but chose not to for sound financial reasons, it seems odd for us to be punished. I think our constant dialogue with the EPL should help our case.
I think the sale may also make the 22/23 accounts as a post year end event, but I'm not sufficiently qualified to really know much about this.
A suspended penalty makes sense to me, as it gives the EPL an out just before the rules change, and avoids the nightmare of the season ending before appeals have been heard.
I still think it will be a fine. It’s a technical breach, corrected in a few weeks post deadline, for a set of rules ending at the close of the season.
Everyone knows the rules in their current form are protecting the top six, and I don’t think the FA want to see numerous appeals and the relegation fight settled in court.
Fast Bug said:
We were in constant dialogue with the PL as well and it didn't help us sadly.
TBH I don't know too much about the Everton case, but I was under the impression that you went against what the EPL were advising? The whole thing is a mess, and the system is clearly designed to build a barrier to lock in the top 6.
The G Kid said:
Fast Bug said:
We were in constant dialogue with the PL as well and it didn't help us sadly.
TBH I don't know too much about the Everton case, but I was under the impression that you went against what the EPL were advising? The whole thing is a mess, and the system is clearly designed to build a barrier to lock in the top 6.
And I agree 100%, the rules were designed to pull the drawbridge up. So many clubs walking the tightrope, yet the last 3 years of Chelsea's accounts are shocking, they need to be really creative with what they can offset against allowable losses to comply. I can't see why the book isn't being thrown at them yet?
The G Kid said:
Sport_Turismo_GTS said:
Crap defending, crap refereeing, crap attacking, crap result.
Still have 7 games against those in the bottom half to come, so need to make the most of those. And hope Luton lose against Bournemouth.
Couldn't agree more....although would add crap stadium, crap home fans and crap opposition. Which makes it doubly worse as Brighton were sStill have 7 games against those in the bottom half to come, so need to make the most of those. And hope Luton lose against Bournemouth.
te and we missed a great opportunity for 3 points. I'm starting to wonder about Nuno. If Awoniyi and Elanga aren't injured then I find it impossible to work out why Wood and Origi started. Both were awful. Brighton are rubbish, so why go for 3 midfielders?
No real passion today, and Toff and Neco were crap going forward. We need Aina and Montiel back.
Still awful from most set pieces. MGW and Murillo hit free kicks in dangerous areas straight to the keeper.
Thoroughly frustrated, although decent Saturday night/day boozing and eating in Brighton!!
Toffolo may not have the pace of Tavares but his deliveries have been excellent on the whole. Several assists. I can understand why Tavares gets the nod given his pace but he can be wasteful.
Both Tavares and Montiel are still injured though aren’t they?
The G Kid said:
Fast Bug said:
We were in constant dialogue with the PL as well and it didn't help us sadly.
TBH I don't know too much about the Everton case, but I was under the impression that you went against what the EPL were advising? The whole thing is a mess, and the system is clearly designed to build a barrier to lock in the top 6.
) - which we did. Personally I think we cut too far, and then "had" to buy Onana, Chemitri, Beto (although latter two won't show up other than wages due to structure of the deal). When we brought Onana I thought the club must know what they were doing and we now had plenty of wriggle room. Sadly it now seems not.Not sure where net spend fits into the mooted 85% of income to be spent on wages (the new Uefa PSR model), but 85% sounds a heck of a lot. We did briefly top 90 a few years back with big wages trying to get into the top 6, but we are so far under that now, and so is every club to my knowledge. As such, the problem magically goes away...but not before we two are punished on the old rules - unadjusted for inflation - and using the precedent set (by us, natch). To that end, my understanding is it's 8 for a breach with us receiving an additional 2 deduction for showing a downward trend, something neither club can argue this time round. Or it might be a flat "6, that's it".
If we start arguing we only should be punished for yr 3 (so 1/3...2 pts) you could argue you only breached in yr 3 so you should only get 2 pts as well. Come to that, we only breached in 2 of the 3 years originally, so perhaps it should have only been 4?
Then you have talk of Leicester starting on minus points next season
The whole thing is indeed a mess (not least because the "big" clubs spend approximately 2-300m more per annum on wages), but I don't see how you don't get 6 points without us being seriously unhappy at our original 6 (well, more than we are now). The silver lining to that scenario (which I will be rooting for) is they surely wouldn't punish us further if you escape?
It's killed our season, and sucked all the joy out of football for me. Aided and abetted by some questionable VAR calls. And if sustainable rules relegate us, well there's a certain irony there, I'm sure you'll agree? Due to the sanctions, we would drop a flight, and surely enter administration, and then be docked further points, with a firesale of players thrown in for good measure. We could be looking at starting at Bramley Moore in league one with a billion quid of debt
Are you guys looking at a new stadium? Get your ducks in a row is my advice
Hackney said:
I didn’t watch the Brighton game, only highlights. But I’ve seen every game prior to that and on those performances there’s no way you’d drop Williams. He’s had two or three MOTM wins and was close the other day when I think Yates got it. Yates was good that game mind.
Toffolo may not have the pace of Tavares but his deliveries have been excellent on the whole. Several assists. I can understand why Tavares gets the nod given his pace but he can be wasteful.
Both Tavares and Montiel are still injured though aren’t they?
You dodged a bullet by not going to Brighton! Was like a library apart from us.Toffolo may not have the pace of Tavares but his deliveries have been excellent on the whole. Several assists. I can understand why Tavares gets the nod given his pace but he can be wasteful.
Both Tavares and Montiel are still injured though aren’t they?
I just don't think Neco's delivery is consistent enough, and whilst I appreciate he's been decent overall in a few previous games I just don't think he's dynamic enough going forward. Similar to Toff, although Toff (as you say) has better delivery. I think having 2 relatively unadventurous full backs leaves us a bit lumbersome.
Not sure I rate Tavares at all. I think him and Montiel injured. I have no idea what is up with Aina.
johnboy1975 said:
In that regard, this 2nd breach is worse than the first (IMO). On the first we did indeed have the PL holding our hand and advising on every transfer. To that end, they told us we had to sell Richie (in time!!! ) - which we did. Personally I think we cut too far, and then "had" to buy Onana, Chemitri, Beto (although latter two won't show up other than wages due to structure of the deal). When we brought Onana I thought the club must know what they were doing and we now had plenty of wriggle room. Sadly it now seems not.
Not sure where net spend fits into the mooted 85% of income to be spent on wages (the new Uefa PSR model), but 85% sounds a heck of a lot. We did briefly top 90 a few years back with big wages trying to get into the top 6, but we are so far under that now, and so is every club to my knowledge. As such, the problem magically goes away...but not before we two are punished on the old rules - unadjusted for inflation - and using the precedent set (by us, natch). To that end, my understanding is it's 8 for a breach with us receiving an additional 2 deduction for showing a downward trend, something neither club can argue this time round. Or it might be a flat "6, that's it".
If we start arguing we only should be punished for yr 3 (so 1/3...2 pts) you could argue you only breached in yr 3 so you should only get 2 pts as well. Come to that, we only breached in 2 of the 3 years originally, so perhaps it should have only been 4?
Then you have talk of Leicester starting on minus points next season
The whole thing is indeed a mess (not least because the "big" clubs spend approximately 2-300m more per annum on wages), but I don't see how you don't get 6 points without us being seriously unhappy at our original 6 (well, more than we are now). The silver lining to that scenario (which I will be rooting for) is they surely wouldn't punish us further if you escape?
It's killed our season, and sucked all the joy out of football for me. Aided and abetted by some questionable VAR calls. And if sustainable rules relegate us, well there's a certain irony there, I'm sure you'll agree? Due to the sanctions, we would drop a flight, and surely enter administration, and then be docked further points, with a firesale of players thrown in for good measure. We could be looking at starting at Bramley Moore in league one with a billion quid of debt
Are you guys looking at a new stadium? Get your ducks in a row is my advice
Thanks for the info. It does seem odd that they told you to sell Richarlison, you complied yet you still got charged? ) - which we did. Personally I think we cut too far, and then "had" to buy Onana, Chemitri, Beto (although latter two won't show up other than wages due to structure of the deal). When we brought Onana I thought the club must know what they were doing and we now had plenty of wriggle room. Sadly it now seems not.Not sure where net spend fits into the mooted 85% of income to be spent on wages (the new Uefa PSR model), but 85% sounds a heck of a lot. We did briefly top 90 a few years back with big wages trying to get into the top 6, but we are so far under that now, and so is every club to my knowledge. As such, the problem magically goes away...but not before we two are punished on the old rules - unadjusted for inflation - and using the precedent set (by us, natch). To that end, my understanding is it's 8 for a breach with us receiving an additional 2 deduction for showing a downward trend, something neither club can argue this time round. Or it might be a flat "6, that's it".
If we start arguing we only should be punished for yr 3 (so 1/3...2 pts) you could argue you only breached in yr 3 so you should only get 2 pts as well. Come to that, we only breached in 2 of the 3 years originally, so perhaps it should have only been 4?
Then you have talk of Leicester starting on minus points next season
The whole thing is indeed a mess (not least because the "big" clubs spend approximately 2-300m more per annum on wages), but I don't see how you don't get 6 points without us being seriously unhappy at our original 6 (well, more than we are now). The silver lining to that scenario (which I will be rooting for) is they surely wouldn't punish us further if you escape?
It's killed our season, and sucked all the joy out of football for me. Aided and abetted by some questionable VAR calls. And if sustainable rules relegate us, well there's a certain irony there, I'm sure you'll agree? Due to the sanctions, we would drop a flight, and surely enter administration, and then be docked further points, with a firesale of players thrown in for good measure. We could be looking at starting at Bramley Moore in league one with a billion quid of debt
Are you guys looking at a new stadium? Get your ducks in a row is my advice
I think for us it is quite simple...sell Bren in June and avoid any charges (but lose the extra 20mio that Spurs would pay) or sell Bren in August and have an extra 20mio in the bank (which surely is the route you should take if you are aiming for sustainability) but risk missing FFP due to the ridiculous June cut off date. If it is as clear cut as that then I think a suspended deduction would make sense. But I can see other factors coming in to play, such as your deduction, the fact Bren actually played for us in August before the transfer, etc
I totally agree with the irony of points deduction causing further financial pain and then administration.....
I think our new stadium "talk" is just part of the negotiations with Nottingham council who own the land the City Ground sits on.
Hackney said:
We must be the perfect opponents on Saturday
For me, on Saturday we need to revert to MGW sitting behind CHO, Awoniyi and Elanga. Clearly our best attacking option. I think we are starting to miss Mangala really badly in midfield, and I'm not really sure of our best combination but I just can't see Sangare being up for it. Dominguez and Danilo perhaps works best, although maybe Yates would be better for his spirit.
I think Murillo needs someone more experienced alongside him than Omobamidele.
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