Discussion
I’m hoping it’s a sign we won’t give up.
Drawing out the “company men” like Carragher and Neville who won’t have a bad word said against their bosses.
Also the release of the VAR audio should be interesting whatever it shows.
Really looking forward to Sunday, wonder if Tweedle Dum and Tweedle Dumber will be on pitch before the game.
Drawing out the “company men” like Carragher and Neville who won’t have a bad word said against their bosses.
Also the release of the VAR audio should be interesting whatever it shows.
Really looking forward to Sunday, wonder if Tweedle Dum and Tweedle Dumber will be on pitch before the game.
Leicester Loyal said:
All for that statement, there's no accountability for the refs, they constantly make bad decisions and nothing will ever gets done.
Is the statement professional? Nope. But neither are the refs or PGMOL etc.
I must admit that having seen how video has improved rugby and tennis by allowing them to get more decisions correct, I was very hopeful that it would also improve football, but that doesn’t appear to be the case.Is the statement professional? Nope. But neither are the refs or PGMOL etc.
It has maybe made off-side decisions more accurate, but for handball and fouls, implementation has been extremely inconsistent.
There certainly appears to be great lengths taken to see whether someone's big toe was an inch on or offside, whereas potential fouls were disregarded after barely a second glance at the weekend.
Sport_Turismo_GTS said:
Rumour has it that the 3rd penalty shout, when Young went through the back of Hudson-Odoi was not even looked at by VAR.
WTF?
Darren Fletcher said the same on Forest Focus podcast.WTF?
Although they did get caught up in the whole we shouldn't accuse them of cheating debate, they did move on to they (VAR, officials in general) are just incompetent. This just doesn't happen in the European Leagues.
On the initial statement I tend towards, "we warned PGMOL that the VAR was a Luton fan before the game, because we expected controversy and incompetence, which given his known offiliation would come across as accusing him of bias if we questioned it", interpretation, rather than an outright accusation of cheating.
PGMOL has done this before, seemingly ignoring the optics of official's affiliations in some games. Maybe they do it on purpose. Their thinking being that if there is a controversy, the affiliation will come out and PGMOL can clutch the pearls and scream, "how dare you question the integrity of the match officials"
Hackney said:
Darren Fletcher said the same on Forest Focus podcast.
Although they did get caught up in the whole we shouldn't accuse them of cheating debate, they did move on to they (VAR, officials in general) are just incompetent. This just doesn't happen in the European Leagues.
On the initial statement I tend towards, "we warned PGMOL that the VAR was a Luton fan before the game, because we expected controversy and incompetence, which given his known offiliation would come across as accusing him of bias if we questioned it", interpretation, rather than an outright accusation of cheating.
PGMOL has done this before, seemingly ignoring the optics of official's affiliations in some games. Maybe they do it on purpose. Their thinking being that if there is a controversy, the affiliation will come out and PGMOL can clutch the pearls and scream, "how dare you question the integrity of the match officials"
The thing is, whilst it's not noble to accuse anyone of cheating, how can anyone really be so incompetent? And it's not as if officials have never been corrupt..look at what happened to us in the early 80's in Europe.Although they did get caught up in the whole we shouldn't accuse them of cheating debate, they did move on to they (VAR, officials in general) are just incompetent. This just doesn't happen in the European Leagues.
On the initial statement I tend towards, "we warned PGMOL that the VAR was a Luton fan before the game, because we expected controversy and incompetence, which given his known offiliation would come across as accusing him of bias if we questioned it", interpretation, rather than an outright accusation of cheating.
PGMOL has done this before, seemingly ignoring the optics of official's affiliations in some games. Maybe they do it on purpose. Their thinking being that if there is a controversy, the affiliation will come out and PGMOL can clutch the pearls and scream, "how dare you question the integrity of the match officials"
I think a committed fan could easily have some unconscious bias, or worse could be deliberately bias. It would be so simple to take away any sniff of bias by sensibly selecting officials.
The G Kid said:
The thing is, whilst it's not noble to accuse anyone of cheating, how can anyone really be so incompetent? And it's not as if officials have never been corrupt..look at what happened to us in the early 80's in Europe.
I think a committed fan could easily have some unconscious bias, or worse could be deliberately bias. It would be so simple to take away any sniff of bias by sensibly selecting officials.
Exactly, 3rd penalty apparently not even being reviewed is a case in point. Incompetency doesn’t cover watching that and deciding not to bother giving it a second look. Therefore….I think a committed fan could easily have some unconscious bias, or worse could be deliberately bias. It would be so simple to take away any sniff of bias by sensibly selecting officials.
https://twitter.com/Thorsby1/status/17827369049259...
"We love VAR..."
Was it covered in this thread at the time? Quick browse...p390
Win some, lose some? And I'd like to see a deep dive of league position vs bad VAR decision, it does seem to me to match up, with the bigger teams getting the "rub of the green". City get countless good decisions, the Rodri handball against us a couple of seasons ago, the handball given against us this season, and the Grealish handball in the semi final a few days ago to name but 3. Honorable mention to their player not getting a 2nd yellow vs Arsenal I think it was?
It's not corruption, it's (possibly) unconscious bias. And if he's a Luton fan, he should have been nowhere near the match, none withstanding a draw might have been the best result for Luton.
Twitter said:
Just a Forest player thanking the VAR operator for not giving two stonewall penalties against them in the playoff final 2022
(video attached - of the above, not the incident (s))"We love VAR..."
Was it covered in this thread at the time? Quick browse...p390
Pete Murphy said:
Would be gutted if I was Huddersfield with those penalty decisions but we deserve some luck after some of our games. Doesn’t seem real!
The wider point remains, VAR is supposed to take the luck out and it quite obviously isn't doing that. Personally, I only think you're 3rd was a pen (1st not enough contact, 2nd point blank range, natural running position), but I guess that one was "double jeopardy" in that McNeils goal wouldn't have stood if the pen had been given after a VAR . Which, by rights, it should have been...but we (Everton) deserve some luck after the horrendous decisions we've suffered this season Win some, lose some? And I'd like to see a deep dive of league position vs bad VAR decision, it does seem to me to match up, with the bigger teams getting the "rub of the green". City get countless good decisions, the Rodri handball against us a couple of seasons ago, the handball given against us this season, and the Grealish handball in the semi final a few days ago to name but 3. Honorable mention to their player not getting a 2nd yellow vs Arsenal I think it was?
It's not corruption, it's (possibly) unconscious bias. And if he's a Luton fan, he should have been nowhere near the match, none withstanding a draw might have been the best result for Luton.
Forest have had one penalty awarded.
I understand the data isn't everything, Forest also have some of the lowest possession in the League so it would follow to some extent that we have lower penalty awards.
I don't really understand the 'not enough contact' discussion, we can look back at penalties awarded against us and say the same thing (Rashford for one) which takes us back to its all a bit subjective. I just feel that VAR takes a lot from the game, and hasn't improved the quality or consistency of decision making.
The data
johnboy1975 said:
https://twitter.com/Thorsby1/status/17827369049259...
"We love VAR..."
Was it covered in this thread at the time? Quick browse...p390
Win some, lose some? And I'd like to see a deep dive of league position vs bad VAR decision, it does seem to me to match up, with the bigger teams getting the "rub of the green". City get countless good decisions, the Rodri handball against us a couple of seasons ago, the handball given against us this season, and the Grealish handball in the semi final a few days ago to name but 3. Honorable mention to their player not getting a 2nd yellow vs Arsenal I think it was?
It's not corruption, it's (possibly) unconscious bias. And if he's a Luton fan, he should have been nowhere near the match, none withstanding a draw might have been the best result for Luton.
i'm not sure the "win some, lose some" is applicable to us! Nor Wolves. And probably most of the teams out side the Sky 6! Twitter said:
Just a Forest player thanking the VAR operator for not giving two stonewall penalties against them in the playoff final 2022
(video attached - of the above, not the incident (s))"We love VAR..."
Was it covered in this thread at the time? Quick browse...p390
Pete Murphy said:
Would be gutted if I was Huddersfield with those penalty decisions but we deserve some luck after some of our games. Doesn’t seem real!
The wider point remains, VAR is supposed to take the luck out and it quite obviously isn't doing that. Personally, I only think you're 3rd was a pen (1st not enough contact, 2nd point blank range, natural running position), but I guess that one was "double jeopardy" in that McNeils goal wouldn't have stood if the pen had been given after a VAR . Which, by rights, it should have been...but we (Everton) deserve some luck after the horrendous decisions we've suffered this season Win some, lose some? And I'd like to see a deep dive of league position vs bad VAR decision, it does seem to me to match up, with the bigger teams getting the "rub of the green". City get countless good decisions, the Rodri handball against us a couple of seasons ago, the handball given against us this season, and the Grealish handball in the semi final a few days ago to name but 3. Honorable mention to their player not getting a 2nd yellow vs Arsenal I think it was?
It's not corruption, it's (possibly) unconscious bias. And if he's a Luton fan, he should have been nowhere near the match, none withstanding a draw might have been the best result for Luton.
With regard to the first two shouts, i agree that the first shouldn't be a pen, however if you look at other similar incidents (Phillips v Newcastle) it clearly is. The amount of contact should be irrelevant. The problem with the second is that he moves his arm, and he blocks the ball from reaching Chris Wood.
Anyway, now that you have beaten us, I hope you smash Luton on the 3rd May!
Gargamel said:
Forest have had one penalty awarded.
I understand the data isn't everything, Forest also have some of the lowest possession in the League so it would follow to some extent that we have lower penalty awards.
I don't really understand the 'not enough contact' discussion, we can look back at penalties awarded against us and say the same thing (Rashford for one) which takes us back to its all a bit subjective. I just feel that VAR takes a lot from the game, and hasn't improved the quality or consistency of decision making.
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Rashford one was a joke. Just as much as the ones we didn't get v West Ham (no impact on the result) and Newcastle (cost us a point). I understand the data isn't everything, Forest also have some of the lowest possession in the League so it would follow to some extent that we have lower penalty awards.
I don't really understand the 'not enough contact' discussion, we can look back at penalties awarded against us and say the same thing (Rashford for one) which takes us back to its all a bit subjective. I just feel that VAR takes a lot from the game, and hasn't improved the quality or consistency of decision making.
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The G Kid said:
i'm not sure the "win some, lose some" is applicable to us! Nor Wolves. And probably most of the teams out side the Sky 6!
With regard to the first two shouts, i agree that the first shouldn't be a pen, however if you look at other similar incidents (Phillips v Newcastle) it clearly is. The amount of contact should be irrelevant. The problem with the second is that he moves his arm, and he blocks the ball from reaching Chris Wood.
Anyway, now that you have beaten us, I hope you smash Luton on the 3rd May!
This is the problem, consistency. With regard to the first two shouts, i agree that the first shouldn't be a pen, however if you look at other similar incidents (Phillips v Newcastle) it clearly is. The amount of contact should be irrelevant. The problem with the second is that he moves his arm, and he blocks the ball from reaching Chris Wood.
Anyway, now that you have beaten us, I hope you smash Luton on the 3rd May!
You may or may not agree that the Reyna one was a penalty.
What’s unavoidable is that they have been given. Dermot Gallagher on refwatxh seemed to think there had been a change in threshold so less we’re being given. How the ****ing **** can that be fair or right. If it’s a penalty in one game it’s a penalty in all games that season at least.
Same with the handball.
He’s not in a natural position and if anything moves his arm to the ball then quickly puts it behind his back.
petemurphy said:
Tbf we’d prob miss the penalty anyway 
We were on zero until recently and Beto missed it 
And the keeper got a big hand on our 2nd but it crept inAfter moaning we are now at the dizzy heights of 2 pennos awarded this season (we should have had about 5 or 6).
Agreed you should have more than 1
Which is what it's all about. Moan, to put pressure on the ref team to give the next 50/50 one when you get one. Fergie was a master, seemed to work for Arsenal after the Newcastle game when they scored after the push in their defender. They got the "basketball handball" (plus a few others I can't recall, seem to remember there's another huge one) not given against Liverpool, which was absolutely huge in the context of the season. Might just be random luck, given the general inconsistency, but I think it does play on the ref / VAR's mind to a point
Hackney said:
This is the problem, consistency.
You may or may not agree that the Reyna one was a penalty.
What’s unavoidable is that they have been given. Dermot Gallagher on refwatxh seemed to think there had been a change in threshold so less we’re being given. How the ****ing **** can that be fair or right. If it’s a penalty in one game it’s a penalty in all games that season at least.
Same with the handball.
He’s not in a natural position and if anything moves his arm to the ball then quickly puts it behind his back.
I've also seen that change of threshold stuff....what utter nonsense! You can't change the rules halfway through the season. It just goes to show the people running the game are clueless!You may or may not agree that the Reyna one was a penalty.
What’s unavoidable is that they have been given. Dermot Gallagher on refwatxh seemed to think there had been a change in threshold so less we’re being given. How the ****ing **** can that be fair or right. If it’s a penalty in one game it’s a penalty in all games that season at least.
Same with the handball.
He’s not in a natural position and if anything moves his arm to the ball then quickly puts it behind his back.
Gargamel said:
Forest have had one penalty awarded.
I understand the data isn't everything, Forest also have some of the lowest possession in the League so it would follow to some extent that we have lower penalty awards.
I don't really understand the 'not enough contact' discussion, we can look back at penalties awarded against us and say the same thing (Rashford for one) which takes us back to its all a bit subjective. I just feel that VAR takes a lot from the game, and hasn't improved the quality or consistency of decision making.
The data
Yes you would think possesion would make a big difference to potential pens, but Spurs have the 2nd highest possesion stats this season and the 3rd highest final 3rd possesion, but still only one pen???I understand the data isn't everything, Forest also have some of the lowest possession in the League so it would follow to some extent that we have lower penalty awards.
I don't really understand the 'not enough contact' discussion, we can look back at penalties awarded against us and say the same thing (Rashford for one) which takes us back to its all a bit subjective. I just feel that VAR takes a lot from the game, and hasn't improved the quality or consistency of decision making.
The data
petemurphy said:
Ffs Everton it’s not looking good now
Agree. Had trouble sleeping last night after that result. Can't see Wolves doing us a favour on Saturday, given their dreadful home form and the refs vendetta against them as well as us. Attwell at it again last night, loved the Wolves chant.
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