The Official Southampton FC Thread
Discussion
Paul_B said:
Problem is the damage has been done now.
Possibly left field, but maybe the club wouldn't be too sad to see him go and be well compensated in the process ?OK, it might come with the territory, but it's no much of a secret that he's upset a fair few players over the past couple of years (Mane, Tadic, Targett, etc).
I've also heard rumblings there are those behind the scenes at St Marys who are less than happy with how the academy has been utilised. When you consider the club's emphasis on home grown talent to support a sustainable future, the crop of talent at the manager's disposal and the recent £40m spend on improving the [already impressive] academy facilities, it's not hard to see why, when the academy kids are either overlooked or farmed out on loan, it raises a few eyebrows.
Pochettino (a far superior manager, IMO), saw no problem promoting the academy lads - I seem to recall one game where we had 7 of them on the pitch at one time.
Paul_B said:
My worry is, how many players will follow him??
They only seem interested in Fraser, VvD & Tadic (and who could blame 'em). However, with two of those only just signing lengthy contract extensions, that's their £100m 'bumper kitty' right there.From what I saw of Everton last season, they need to strengthen throughout the team. As much as I'm sure they love to see £40m superstar signings coming their way, they'll probably need to spread their spending just a little thinner.
Realistically they will have to pay any superstar a lot to play for them. They are not a top 4 club and have no European football despite how big their fans think they are (I didn't think all Liverpudlians were deluded? 
).
I was expecting Koeman to go to one of the bigger clubs in Europe but not opt for a sideways/downwards move. Money speaks though. And if it doesn't work out with Everton at least he will have the pay cheque.
There are other managers though so it's not the end of the world. Just frustrating.
).I was expecting Koeman to go to one of the bigger clubs in Europe but not opt for a sideways/downwards move. Money speaks though. And if it doesn't work out with Everton at least he will have the pay cheque.
There are other managers though so it's not the end of the world. Just frustrating.
There is clearly some bitterness towards Everton on here, which is only to be expected. Apart from the fact I would've preferred one or two other candidates ahead of RK (irrelevant I suppose), I don't like seeing clubs asset stripped following a decent season, cue what is now happening at Leicester.
I have read that the deal has been held up because Saints are demanding a non poaching clause in the compensation agreement, it would make sense to me but surely the only players at risk would be the ones on new contracts, like Van Djik (spelling apologies)?
If he does come to EFC I hope the antipathy quickly dies down, we've always had a decent relationship and I have vivid memories of watching us beat you at Highbury in an FA Cup semi in 1984, I was in the wrong end, but the Saints fans could not have been more gracious in defeat.
I have read that the deal has been held up because Saints are demanding a non poaching clause in the compensation agreement, it would make sense to me but surely the only players at risk would be the ones on new contracts, like Van Djik (spelling apologies)?
If he does come to EFC I hope the antipathy quickly dies down, we've always had a decent relationship and I have vivid memories of watching us beat you at Highbury in an FA Cup semi in 1984, I was in the wrong end, but the Saints fans could not have been more gracious in defeat.
There's obviously going to be some bitterness from Saints fans. There would be with most teams in this situation, though it does seem that every summer the club gets raided by the bigger kid who wants everybody's lunch money, so by now many Saints fans will initially feel strong bouts of bitterness that could give even an Everton fan a run for their money whenever the next team comes in for a midnight raid.
Personally, I think it's a touch deflating as I've always viewed Everton as a traditional, well-run club who I wouldn't lump in with the likes of Spurs or Arsenal when it comes to how they're run. But they say money is the root of all evil, and here's the proof.
I've read lots of posts on this on some of the Saints forums, but said relatively little. I've got family who support Everton so even if I was harbouring deep feelings of hatred for them, I wouldn't come on here and say so!
Some points I'd make, speaking as (I hope) a level-headed Saints fan:
1. Initially the bitterness probably stems from a few Saints fans, or people that Everton fans perceive to be Saints fans coming out with the lines like "It's a step down" and "Why would he go to a smaller club?" etc. Most of these comments come from neutrals, and that's how the move is perceived by at least what I would estimate to be 50% of the commentators on various threads and posts (even John Motson!). Speaking seriously, you'd have to be deluded to think that Southampton are a bigger club than Everton. If you measure how big a club is on how big the fanbase is, how much they've won, how big the ground/facilities and their profile around the world, Everton are easily bigger than Saints. Most Saints fans know this, and the comments about 'stepping down' stem more from the fact Saints have European football next year, and are a team already on the move. Everton have been underachieving, and may well progress next season, but the point is Southampton already are. There's always the chance it goes belly-up for us next season, of course. Personally, I see it as a sideways step, at this moment. We did have an Everton fan come over to a Saints forum though, and he was a breath of fresh air! Basically said he didn't particularly want Koeman, as he didn't think he was the answer. He was old enough to remember the good times, but doesn't get the obsession with 'history' and how 'big' a club is (If history could win you the league, Leicester would have had no chance, unless Muzzy Izzet is some kind of god, and Leeds Utd & Notts Forest would be in the premier league.....above us). He just said he wanted heart & soul put into every game, and to be back up mixing it with the likes of Spurs, which I would agree is where Everton typically should be plying their trade. We're punching above our weight, as things stand. Everton have punched well-below in the last two seasons.
2. The calibre of some Everton fans that I've been reading over the last couple of days is barrel-scraping low! Every club has nobhead fans, sure. But I never realised Everton had quite as many as have been crawling out from under rocks these past few days. Can't find the thread I read on a Saints forum the other day, where some Everton fan said he was keeping his fingers crossed for a "Hillsborough" type incident at SMS next season. Class. Like I said, all clubs have nobhead fans, but some of yours genuinely live under a bridge glittered with s
t (I've been to Liverpool, so I can believe it too!)
3. RK is going for the money, end of. All this talk of 'ambition' is laughable. If he was going for ambition, he wouldn't need to be persuaded with £7m, he'd see it as a progressive move and would just want to take it, just as Moyes did when he joined Man Utd. Things weren't going badly as such for him at Goodison, but he saw it as the next step. If Koeman did, he'd have bitten Moshiri's arm off at the invite stage, and left the agent and club to fight over compo. Ambition doesn't equate to how much money you blow on players - ask Newcastle how that worked out for them. Ambition is something Everton need to work on, but the number of Everton fans who've said RK is off because our owners aren't ambitious is laughable. Southampton FC is one of the best run clubs in Europe, let alone the prem. The owner is (I've read, so happy to be proven wrong) richer than the guy who's just bought 49% in Everton (why didn't he want a controlling share, I wonder - if he wanted to pump £100m in, you'd think he'd want to be in charge?) but if we want an example of what happens with a wealthy bloke comes along and pumps money into a relatively smaller PL club, we only have to look 20miles down the road at our fishy neighbours and their League Two escapades. Liebherr has money. Billions, in fact, but the club is already progressing and progressing in a self-sustainable way. Plenty of people say "Oh but you'd change your tune if your club got bought out!" Well, no, I definitely don't want it bought out as I think it's in the right hands, and even if an even wealthier owner came along, I think the way the club is run is even more exciting as it is. Nearly went bust once, recently. Don't need it again!
4. Most Saints fans are aggrieved mostly because from day one, Koeman can be quoted as telling everyone that he is a man of his word. Naive on my part, possibly, but I took him at his word, and most Saints fans did too. The ones who are wetting the bed now, like myself, are the ones who fell for it. The ones who didn't believe it anyway aren't anywhere near as fussed that he's going. Some are even happy, and cite the poor run of form through the end of 2015 that lost around 9 points as a missed opportunity to break into the Champions League. It probably was, to be fair, and tactically for a time, he was totally clueless. It was only the injury of the misfiring Pelle and the emergence of Shane Long actually getting a chance to play in his favoured position that rescued the season, coupled to moving to a 5-3-2 formation. But the issue with RK for most is that he specifically stated he was going nowhere on multiple occasions, even when linked to the Barcelona job (lol). When MoPo left, he said nothing. He kept quiet, saw it out to the end of the season and when the opportunity arose, he took it. Koeman will be the target of more puckered lips that Poch was, mainly for all the deception. And don't think he won't do it to you.....he'll jump as soon as the next big thing comes along (unless he crashes and burns).
5. Southampton's progress should not solely be attributed to RK, so there is no reason to believe that we won't continue improving next season anyway. The recruitment isn't RK, the academy (who he's fallen out with) isn't RK - it's the club. The club will have had shortlist of managers in place a year ago, should RK choose not to renew his contract at the end of his 3yrs (which he'd be here for, you know, because he's not a snake). I've read from one guy who claims to be ITK that the club actually wanted shot of him, and that much of the PR surrounding this is coming from SFC themselves. Why would we want shot of him, you might ask? Doesn't promote youth talent, has allegedly fallen out with nearly half the dressing room (Tadic & Mane we know have had the hump for a while, but apparently Targett was given a dressing down at half time which not only angered him, but some of his teammates), and the club knew that he likely wouldn't stay on after the 3 yrs anyway. They'll have had a shortlist of replacements, but if they offload him now, they get compo. In summer 2017, there's zero compo. And the compo figure being banded around would pay off his services for the two years previous
Better to get someone in who's there for the long-haul. In the meantime, you guys might want to hire a new negotiator!
Basically, we don't need more clubs to hate (already got Spuds and your best friends over the park for that). My initial feelings were those of anger too, but having had time to think, I'm starting to see the wood for the trees. I'm actually quite excited now at what the future holds (we could end up with De Boer or AVB.......hopefully not Moyes) and I genuinely believe we'll kick on. I suspect most Saints fans won't hold too much of a grudge for the long-term either, unless we capitulate next season. Mane will probably still go, even if RK does. Wanyama's a gonner, but I think we'll be able to make our replacements work. Dave Watson is the guy I'm worried about, but I've heard Kenwright doesn't want to get rid of the backroom staff at Goodison, and AFAIK Erwin is the only guy in Koeman's entourage, so hopefully Dave Watson will stay (which would keep FF happy).
However, if RK does come back in for VVD or Forster, then the st will likely hit the fan between the.........fans!
whenever the next team comes in for a midnight raid.Personally, I think it's a touch deflating as I've always viewed Everton as a traditional, well-run club who I wouldn't lump in with the likes of Spurs or Arsenal when it comes to how they're run. But they say money is the root of all evil, and here's the proof.
I've read lots of posts on this on some of the Saints forums, but said relatively little. I've got family who support Everton so even if I was harbouring deep feelings of hatred for them, I wouldn't come on here and say so!
Some points I'd make, speaking as (I hope) a level-headed Saints fan:
1. Initially the bitterness probably stems from a few Saints fans, or people that Everton fans perceive to be Saints fans coming out with the lines like "It's a step down" and "Why would he go to a smaller club?" etc. Most of these comments come from neutrals, and that's how the move is perceived by at least what I would estimate to be 50% of the commentators on various threads and posts (even John Motson!). Speaking seriously, you'd have to be deluded to think that Southampton are a bigger club than Everton. If you measure how big a club is on how big the fanbase is, how much they've won, how big the ground/facilities and their profile around the world, Everton are easily bigger than Saints. Most Saints fans know this, and the comments about 'stepping down' stem more from the fact Saints have European football next year, and are a team already on the move. Everton have been underachieving, and may well progress next season, but the point is Southampton already are. There's always the chance it goes belly-up for us next season, of course. Personally, I see it as a sideways step, at this moment. We did have an Everton fan come over to a Saints forum though, and he was a breath of fresh air! Basically said he didn't particularly want Koeman, as he didn't think he was the answer. He was old enough to remember the good times, but doesn't get the obsession with 'history' and how 'big' a club is (If history could win you the league, Leicester would have had no chance, unless Muzzy Izzet is some kind of god, and Leeds Utd & Notts Forest would be in the premier league.....above us). He just said he wanted heart & soul put into every game, and to be back up mixing it with the likes of Spurs, which I would agree is where Everton typically should be plying their trade. We're punching above our weight, as things stand. Everton have punched well-below in the last two seasons.
2. The calibre of some Everton fans that I've been reading over the last couple of days is barrel-scraping low! Every club has nobhead fans, sure. But I never realised Everton had quite as many as have been crawling out from under rocks these past few days. Can't find the thread I read on a Saints forum the other day, where some Everton fan said he was keeping his fingers crossed for a "Hillsborough" type incident at SMS next season. Class. Like I said, all clubs have nobhead fans, but some of yours genuinely live under a bridge glittered with s
t (I've been to Liverpool, so I can believe it too!)3. RK is going for the money, end of. All this talk of 'ambition' is laughable. If he was going for ambition, he wouldn't need to be persuaded with £7m, he'd see it as a progressive move and would just want to take it, just as Moyes did when he joined Man Utd. Things weren't going badly as such for him at Goodison, but he saw it as the next step. If Koeman did, he'd have bitten Moshiri's arm off at the invite stage, and left the agent and club to fight over compo. Ambition doesn't equate to how much money you blow on players - ask Newcastle how that worked out for them. Ambition is something Everton need to work on, but the number of Everton fans who've said RK is off because our owners aren't ambitious is laughable. Southampton FC is one of the best run clubs in Europe, let alone the prem. The owner is (I've read, so happy to be proven wrong) richer than the guy who's just bought 49% in Everton (why didn't he want a controlling share, I wonder - if he wanted to pump £100m in, you'd think he'd want to be in charge?) but if we want an example of what happens with a wealthy bloke comes along and pumps money into a relatively smaller PL club, we only have to look 20miles down the road at our fishy neighbours and their League Two escapades. Liebherr has money. Billions, in fact, but the club is already progressing and progressing in a self-sustainable way. Plenty of people say "Oh but you'd change your tune if your club got bought out!" Well, no, I definitely don't want it bought out as I think it's in the right hands, and even if an even wealthier owner came along, I think the way the club is run is even more exciting as it is. Nearly went bust once, recently. Don't need it again!
4. Most Saints fans are aggrieved mostly because from day one, Koeman can be quoted as telling everyone that he is a man of his word. Naive on my part, possibly, but I took him at his word, and most Saints fans did too. The ones who are wetting the bed now, like myself, are the ones who fell for it. The ones who didn't believe it anyway aren't anywhere near as fussed that he's going. Some are even happy, and cite the poor run of form through the end of 2015 that lost around 9 points as a missed opportunity to break into the Champions League. It probably was, to be fair, and tactically for a time, he was totally clueless. It was only the injury of the misfiring Pelle and the emergence of Shane Long actually getting a chance to play in his favoured position that rescued the season, coupled to moving to a 5-3-2 formation. But the issue with RK for most is that he specifically stated he was going nowhere on multiple occasions, even when linked to the Barcelona job (lol). When MoPo left, he said nothing. He kept quiet, saw it out to the end of the season and when the opportunity arose, he took it. Koeman will be the target of more puckered lips that Poch was, mainly for all the deception. And don't think he won't do it to you.....he'll jump as soon as the next big thing comes along (unless he crashes and burns).
5. Southampton's progress should not solely be attributed to RK, so there is no reason to believe that we won't continue improving next season anyway. The recruitment isn't RK, the academy (who he's fallen out with) isn't RK - it's the club. The club will have had shortlist of managers in place a year ago, should RK choose not to renew his contract at the end of his 3yrs (which he'd be here for, you know, because he's not a snake). I've read from one guy who claims to be ITK that the club actually wanted shot of him, and that much of the PR surrounding this is coming from SFC themselves. Why would we want shot of him, you might ask? Doesn't promote youth talent, has allegedly fallen out with nearly half the dressing room (Tadic & Mane we know have had the hump for a while, but apparently Targett was given a dressing down at half time which not only angered him, but some of his teammates), and the club knew that he likely wouldn't stay on after the 3 yrs anyway. They'll have had a shortlist of replacements, but if they offload him now, they get compo. In summer 2017, there's zero compo. And the compo figure being banded around would pay off his services for the two years previous
Better to get someone in who's there for the long-haul. In the meantime, you guys might want to hire a new negotiator!Basically, we don't need more clubs to hate (already got Spuds and your best friends over the park for that). My initial feelings were those of anger too, but having had time to think, I'm starting to see the wood for the trees. I'm actually quite excited now at what the future holds (we could end up with De Boer or AVB.......hopefully not Moyes) and I genuinely believe we'll kick on. I suspect most Saints fans won't hold too much of a grudge for the long-term either, unless we capitulate next season. Mane will probably still go, even if RK does. Wanyama's a gonner, but I think we'll be able to make our replacements work. Dave Watson is the guy I'm worried about, but I've heard Kenwright doesn't want to get rid of the backroom staff at Goodison, and AFAIK Erwin is the only guy in Koeman's entourage, so hopefully Dave Watson will stay (which would keep FF happy).
However, if RK does come back in for VVD or Forster, then the s
t will likely hit the fan between the.........fans! I was naïve enough to think that Ronald would stay for the 3rd year and then go. I don't like the fact he has gone but what really concerns me is that the vultures will circle around our players and 3-4 will push to leave prior to a new manager taking over. Not 100% sold on Eddie Howe, but think that there will be a few managers wanting to join the success at St Mary's. Lets hope the players feel the same
Pellegrini's going to be retiring in the next couple of years (he looks like he died a couple of years ago as it is!) Good manager, plenty of respect for the bloke but I think the sort of job at Saints is the one you'd need to be in for the long-haul on.
Not sold on Howe either. Think he needs another year or two at Bournemouth, and then I imagine he'd leapfrop us for a slightly bigger team......like Everton Plus he has Poompey connections past.
I quite like AVB, and plenty of the Dutch fans have been waxing on about FDB being like Koeman, only better. I don't want him for the reason I don't want to give that Jansen bloke another payout though!
Not sold on Howe either. Think he needs another year or two at Bournemouth, and then I imagine he'd leapfrop us for a slightly bigger team......like Everton
Plus he has Poompey connections past.I quite like AVB, and plenty of the Dutch fans have been waxing on about FDB being like Koeman, only better. I don't want him for the reason I don't want to give that Jansen bloke another payout though!
Kitchski said:
Pellegrini's going to be retiring in the next couple of years (he looks like he died a couple of years ago as it is!) Good manager, plenty of respect for the bloke but I think the sort of job at Saints is the one you'd need to be in for the long-haul on.
Not sold on Howe either. Think he needs another year or two at Bournemouth, and then I imagine he'd leapfrop us for a slightly bigger team......like Everton Plus he has Poompey connections past.
I quite like AVB, and plenty of the Dutch fans have been waxing on about FDB being like Koeman, only better. I don't want him for the reason I don't want to give that Jansen bloke another payout though!
What about the Seville manager? I don't see why he would come to us given he has a champions league place. Please not David Moyes or Ryan GiggsNot sold on Howe either. Think he needs another year or two at Bournemouth, and then I imagine he'd leapfrop us for a slightly bigger team......like Everton
Plus he has Poompey connections past.I quite like AVB, and plenty of the Dutch fans have been waxing on about FDB being like Koeman, only better. I don't want him for the reason I don't want to give that Jansen bloke another payout though!
Unai Emery was one of Everton's targets, and to be honest I'm surprised they didn't push harder for him. Bit of a risk I suppose, completely unproven in English football.
The club will have somebody lined up, no worries about that. They found Poch, and say what you want about him, he's an awesome manager. Probably the best in the league at the moment.
The club will have somebody lined up, no worries about that. They found Poch, and say what you want about him, he's an awesome manager. Probably the best in the league at the moment.
I'm going to make a prediction, Southampton to finish higher than Everton next season.
Something is very right at Southampton as a club, and I really don't think losing Koeman, after losing Pochettino, is going to change that.
Southampton is working as a club, I think that counts for a lot.
Something is very right at Southampton as a club, and I really don't think losing Koeman, after losing Pochettino, is going to change that.
Southampton is working as a club, I think that counts for a lot.
DuncanM said:
I'm going to make a prediction, Southampton to finish higher than Everton next season.
Something is very right at Southampton as a club, and I really don't think losing Koeman, after losing Pochettino, is going to change that.
Southampton is working as a club, I think that counts for a lot.
I hope you're right, Southampton produce some great young players.Something is very right at Southampton as a club, and I really don't think losing Koeman, after losing Pochettino, is going to change that.
Southampton is working as a club, I think that counts for a lot.
DuncanM said:
I'm going to make a prediction, Southampton to finish higher than Everton next season.
Something is very right at Southampton as a club, and I really don't think losing Koeman, after losing Pochettino, is going to change that.
Southampton is working as a club, I think that counts for a lot.
I hope you win the league and we come second and win the FA Cup!Something is very right at Southampton as a club, and I really don't think losing Koeman, after losing Pochettino, is going to change that.
Southampton is working as a club, I think that counts for a lot.
Blue62 said:
DuncanM said:
I'm going to make a prediction, Southampton to finish higher than Everton next season.
Something is very right at Southampton as a club, and I really don't think losing Koeman, after losing Pochettino, is going to change that.
Southampton is working as a club, I think that counts for a lot.
I hope you win the league and we come second and win the FA Cup!Something is very right at Southampton as a club, and I really don't think losing Koeman, after losing Pochettino, is going to change that.
Southampton is working as a club, I think that counts for a lot.
DuncanM said:
Blue62 said:
DuncanM said:
I'm going to make a prediction, Southampton to finish higher than Everton next season.
Something is very right at Southampton as a club, and I really don't think losing Koeman, after losing Pochettino, is going to change that.
Southampton is working as a club, I think that counts for a lot.
I hope you win the league and we come second and win the FA Cup!Something is very right at Southampton as a club, and I really don't think losing Koeman, after losing Pochettino, is going to change that.
Southampton is working as a club, I think that counts for a lot.
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