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dirty boy
12,771 posts
78 months
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Someone name the last time Roy Hodgson had a team that dominated posession in a game.... Right, now you've all answered that one, you'll see start to see a pattern. Tell me how many games we've lost under Roy Hodgson. Tell me whether we've come top of our group. Tell me, if you were a Chelsea fan, would you have been pleased to win the CL? Good... All adds up doesn't it? Yes, we allow shots, but it's calculated risk isn't it? Keep the two banks of four tight, restricts them to shots from distance, they're still dangerous, but how often have you seen an opposition player have a one-on-one situation with our keeper? The tactics are sound. Lose Milner from the start, and Johnson will have a nightmare, as would our defence, unless playing three centre backs (very doubtful) Milner does his job brilliantly. From the bench we have Walcott (pace) Ox (pace) Defoe (great finisher) Carroll (great in the air) what a great bunch of 'game changers' should you require a slight change in tactics. I think we're doing fine, just get it out of your heads that you should be expecting more than 3 passes in a row, and you'll enjoy it. And the tit who mentioned Lescott should be dropped  brilliant! And replace him with who exactly? And in any case, he's done very well indeed.
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Blackpuddin
4,803 posts
74 months
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vonuber said: BrabusMog said: He's lucky the ukraininan didn't take a tumble. Yes you're right, it would have been the first recorded example of someone tripping someone up with their head.
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Blackpuddin
4,803 posts
74 months
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hornetrider said: Blackpuddin said: The mention of Lampard reminds me how much we're missing him. I reckon he would have been brilliant out there. Are you taking the piss? The reason we're in the quarters is because he's sunning his fat ass on the beach with his wag, and Parker is playing the enforcer. Lampard was much more than an enforcer in the CL final. I'm not a Chelsea fan btw.
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paulrockliffe
2,694 posts
96 months
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Blackpuddin said: Yes you're right, it would have been the first recorded example of someone tripping someone up with their head. I'm sure a goal keeper will have done it before, but Parker did get the ball!
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hornetrider
40,803 posts
74 months
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Blackpuddin said: Lampard was much more than an enforcer in the CL final. I'm not a Chelsea fan btw. Yeah. My point is we need an enforcer in the team to let Gerrard do his thing. This is why Gerrard/Lampard never worked.
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Blackpuddin
4,803 posts
74 months
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hornetrider said: Blackpuddin said: Lampard was much more than an enforcer in the CL final. I'm not a Chelsea fan btw. Yeah. My point is we need an enforcer in the team to let Gerrard do his thing. This is why Gerrard/Lampard never worked. fair comment
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schmalex
8,683 posts
75 months
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andyjo1982 said: schmalex said: I don't understand why the FA doesn't compel the top Premiership clubs to play training matches against the England team in the 12 month build up to a major international tournament (yes, I know that some of the clubs will lose some of their players to the national side). A decent Premiership club would act as a real training test for our national squad, as they train week in, week out to play as a team. I wonder what the coaches of the international players who play for these Premier league clubs would say to that? Do you think Holland would let RVP play for Arsenal against England in a friendly? And imagine if a player done a cruciate or another long term serious injury? I also think the top premier league teams have just about as many games as they can handle in a season. Even the likes of Stoke played over 55 games last season... No chance i'm afraid... You can easily make it a condition of entry for them to play in the EPL. If the players want the money and stardom that come with being part of one of the best clubs, playing in one of the best leagues in world, the cost is that they are compelled to help train the national team. Regarding the number of games, I am sure one or two per top team (even playing a majority reserve team) isn't beyond the scope of most of them. We need to invest in sport right from a young age, but I believe that we also need to invest in our, then current, national squad to ensure that we firmly position ourselves at the top of the pile internationally. It's clear to me that individual talent just isn't enough to take us far enough through competitions.
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andyjo1982
4,162 posts
79 months
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schmalex said: andyjo1982 said: schmalex said: I don't understand why the FA doesn't compel the top Premiership clubs to play training matches against the England team in the 12 month build up to a major international tournament (yes, I know that some of the clubs will lose some of their players to the national side). A decent Premiership club would act as a real training test for our national squad, as they train week in, week out to play as a team. I wonder what the coaches of the international players who play for these Premier league clubs would say to that? Do you think Holland would let RVP play for Arsenal against England in a friendly? And imagine if a player done a cruciate or another long term serious injury? I also think the top premier league teams have just about as many games as they can handle in a season. Even the likes of Stoke played over 55 games last season... No chance i'm afraid... You can easily make it a condition of entry for them to play in the EPL. If the players want the money and stardom that come with being part of one of the best clubs, playing in one of the best leagues in world, the cost is that they are compelled to help train the national team. Regarding the number of games, I am sure one or two per top team (even playing a majority reserve team) isn't beyond the scope of most of them. We need to invest in sport right from a young age, but I believe that we also need to invest in our, then current, national squad to ensure that we firmly position ourselves at the top of the pile internationally. It's clear to me that individual talent just isn't enough to take us far enough through competitions. And who would pay compensation for injuries? I think it would be pretty pointless playing friendlies against ressie teams. Also, its pretty difficult getting a full squad together for friendlies as it is, so many players pull out on the a day or 2 before the game with a thigh strain etc, to then play at the weekend 3 or 4 days later. Its a good idea, but I don't think it would ever happen.
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London424
2,742 posts
44 months
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dirty boy said: Someone name the last time Roy Hodgson had a team that dominated posession in a game.... Right, now you've all answered that one, you'll see start to see a pattern. Tell me how many games we've lost under Roy Hodgson. Tell me whether we've come top of our group. Tell me, if you were a Chelsea fan, would you have been pleased to win the CL? Good... All adds up doesn't it? Yes, we allow shots, but it's calculated risk isn't it? Keep the two banks of four tight, restricts them to shots from distance, they're still dangerous, but how often have you seen an opposition player have a one-on-one situation with our keeper? The tactics are sound. Lose Milner from the start, and Johnson will have a nightmare, as would our defence, unless playing three centre backs (very doubtful) Milner does his job brilliantly. From the bench we have Walcott (pace) Ox (pace) Defoe (great finisher) Carroll (great in the air) what a great bunch of 'game changers' should you require a slight change in tactics. I think we're doing fine, just get it out of your heads that you should be expecting more than 3 passes in a row, and you'll enjoy it. And the tit who mentioned Lescott should be dropped brilliant! And replace him with who exactly? And in any case, he's done very well indeed. And this is exactly what everyone needs to realise. We won't see england keep the ball, we will defend. We will play for a counter attack or a set piece. The quicker everyone accepts it the easier it is to watch. If you are expecting us to dominate possession and play a team off the park you'll just be frustrated and disappointed.
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Nom de ploom
2,395 posts
43 months
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lescotts' defending has been ok his distribution terrible...ferdinand is a class above at distribution for example.
why can't we expect to put more than three passes together? putting one pass together for Lescott / johnson and recently milner seems to be a big enough challenge...it makes us defensive if we can't keep the ball....hence thats why we are defensive...
if you havn't got or can't keep the ball you have to defend...
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Blackpuddin
4,803 posts
74 months
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This is the point, I agree with previous posters that we're playing to our strengths and the defensive tactic is working for now but the basic question still has to be asked: why is the first touch of almost every English player so poor? That's why we lose the ball so often. Surely this must be fixable, given the right training? Even Continental internationals don't seem to have this problem, let alone the South Americans.
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m3sye
7,092 posts
70 months
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More praise for Johnson - By Guy Mowbray
GLEN JOHNSON (RIGHT-BACK) - 7
Guy's view: I have been so impressed by the defensive side to his game at this tournament and once again he showed great awareness by chasing from the right into the middle to cover when needed.
Pretty much everywhere I have read people have been complimenting how Johnson has played apart from the usual fans who cant accept people can improve as players.
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Blackpuddin
4,803 posts
74 months
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I think he's doing all right but I can't quite get over the suspicion that he's a frustrated forward.
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jcremonini
526 posts
36 months
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I guess I'll be alone in the following view too......
I am somewhat disappointed we have managed to qualify. Yes, I'd love to see a good England team doing well but not a mediocre one. 2 years ago, with the demise of Sir David, we were led to believe we would see a new look, younger England. Now look what we have - the future of England football is in the distinctly average hands of Young, Wellbeck, Walcott, Milner. It's hardly going to send shivers through the spine of the rest of world football is it ?
We are devoid of the ability to keep the ball, we are devoid of the ability to beat players. We resort to the very game that goes back to the woeful Ron Greenwood era. It's 2012, not 1980.
So - we do well in this tournament . Then what ? I know the answer - nothing, the FA will feeling distinctly pleased, sit back on their haunches and allow mundanity to continue.
Slightly cruel, maybe, but I would rather see England humiliated (slightly) and come home early. The purpose being that those billions of pounds in revenue flowing through the FA coffers would somehow serve to fund academies where the sort of footballers the (so-called) best league in the world are producing are more akin to the Silvas and Messis of the world than the Carlton Palmers we are STILL producing.
Sometimes, short term pain = long term gain.
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andyjo1982
4,162 posts
79 months
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jcremonini said: I guess I'll be alone in the following view too......
I am somewhat disappointed we have managed to qualify. Yes, I'd love to see a good England team doing well but not a mediocre one. 2 years ago, with the demise of Sir David, we were led to believe we would see a new look, younger England. Now look what we have - the future of England football is in the distinctly average hands of Young, Wellbeck, Walcott, Milner. It's hardly going to send shivers through the spine of the rest of world football is it ?
We are devoid of the ability to keep the ball, we are devoid of the ability to beat players. We resort to the very game that goes back to the woeful Ron Greenwood era. It's 2012, not 1980.
So - we do well in this tournament . Then what ? I know the answer - nothing, the FA will feeling distinctly pleased, sit back on their haunches and allow mundanity to continue.
Slightly cruel, maybe, but I would rather see England humiliated (slightly) and come home early. The purpose being that those billions of pounds in revenue flowing through the FA coffers would somehow serve to fund academies where the sort of footballers the (so-called) best league in the world are producing are more akin to the Silvas and Messis of the world than the Carlton Palmers we are STILL producing.
Sometimes, short term pain = long term gain. Excellent. Lets all just judge Hodgson on 5 weeks work... You're not even giving him and his coaching staff a chance. This tournament has already been written off, publicly, numerous times. However, while we're out there, we're doing the best with what we've got. Bare in mind that we are mssing probably 7 or 8 players who would've made the squad. So what if we're playing defensive, unattractive football, I wouldn't give a s  t if we won this competition playing this way, and I doubt the Greeks think back about how unattractive to watch they were when they won it. The likes of Messi, even Silva, Ronaldo, etc, they don't come along very often, and not for the same country. Thats why we've seen Spain dominate for a few years, why France did it 12 years ago, and Brazil come and go. I hope the FA give Hodgson plenty of time. He's got them giving 100% and playing with pride and I really think he can improve the way we play.
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fatpasty
1,560 posts
35 months
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dirty boy said: Someone name the last time Roy Hodgson had a team that dominated posession in a game.... Right, now you've all answered that one, you'll see start to see a pattern. Tell me how many games we've lost under Roy Hodgson. Tell me whether we've come top of our group. Tell me, if you were a Chelsea fan, would you have been pleased to win the CL? Good... All adds up doesn't it? Yes, we allow shots, but it's calculated risk isn't it? Keep the two banks of four tight, restricts them to shots from distance, they're still dangerous, but how often have you seen an opposition player have a one-on-one situation with our keeper? The tactics are sound. Lose Milner from the start, and Johnson will have a nightmare, as would our defence, unless playing three centre backs (very doubtful) Milner does his job brilliantly. From the bench we have Walcott (pace) Ox (pace) Defoe (great finisher) Carroll (great in the air) what a great bunch of 'game changers' should you require a slight change in tactics. I think we're doing fine, just get it out of your heads that you should be expecting more than 3 passes in a row, and you'll enjoy it. And the tit who mentioned Lescott should be dropped brilliant! And replace him with who exactly? And in any case, he's done very well indeed. Agree with this. Someone seeing it from a footballing view point.
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jcremonini
526 posts
36 months
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andyjo1982 said: jcremonini said: I guess I'll be alone in the following view too......
I am somewhat disappointed we have managed to qualify. Yes, I'd love to see a good England team doing well but not a mediocre one. 2 years ago, with the demise of Sir David, we were led to believe we would see a new look, younger England. Now look what we have - the future of England football is in the distinctly average hands of Young, Wellbeck, Walcott, Milner. It's hardly going to send shivers through the spine of the rest of world football is it ?
We are devoid of the ability to keep the ball, we are devoid of the ability to beat players. We resort to the very game that goes back to the woeful Ron Greenwood era. It's 2012, not 1980.
So - we do well in this tournament . Then what ? I know the answer - nothing, the FA will feeling distinctly pleased, sit back on their haunches and allow mundanity to continue.
Slightly cruel, maybe, but I would rather see England humiliated (slightly) and come home early. The purpose being that those billions of pounds in revenue flowing through the FA coffers would somehow serve to fund academies where the sort of footballers the (so-called) best league in the world are producing are more akin to the Silvas and Messis of the world than the Carlton Palmers we are STILL producing.
Sometimes, short term pain = long term gain. Excellent. Lets all just judge Hodgson on 5 weeks work... You're not even giving him and his coaching staff a chance. This tournament has already been written off, publicly, numerous times. However, while we're out there, we're doing the best with what we've got. Bare in mind that we are mssing probably 7 or 8 players who would've made the squad. So what if we're playing defensive, unattractive football, I wouldn't give a s t if we won this competition playing this way, and I doubt the Greeks think back about how unattractive to watch they were when they won it. The likes of Messi, even Silva, Ronaldo, etc, they don't come along very often, and not for the same country. Thats why we've seen Spain dominate for a few years, why France did it 12 years ago, and Brazil come and go. I hope the FA give Hodgson plenty of time. He's got them giving 100% and playing with pride and I really think he can improve the way we play. Please read what I have said. If you did, you'll see I am suggesting it is the quality of the players which is the problem, not the quality of the manager (who I made no reference to). No manager is going to be able to change or improve on skills that have been instilled as 14 year olds. 7 or 8 players - no we were not. We missed Lampard and Ferdinand who are on their way out of football anyway. I'll give you Cahill as he is probably a player worth keeping. Ask yourself this question - name me an England player who would walk into France, Spain, Germany or Italy ?
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Black can man
10,977 posts
37 months
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jcremonini said: Please read what I have said. If you did, you'll see I am suggesting it is the quality of the players which is the problem, not the quality of the manager (who I made no reference to). No manager is going to be able to change or improve on skills that have been instilled as 14 year olds.
7 or 8 players - no we were not. We missed Lampard and Ferdinand who are on their way out of football anyway. I'll give you Cahill as he is probably a player worth keeping.
Ask yourself this question - name me an England player who would walk into France, Spain, Germany or Italy ? Ashley Cole would be the only player good enough to play the above mentioned teams , imho of course
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tonker
43,840 posts
117 months
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Gerrard would. Terry would be in any of those teams - he's at least as good as what they have. And Cole is the equivalent of Lahm, who is supposedly the best left back on the planet. Rooney would be in those teams as much as their usual players. Ferdinand would have been, 8 years ago. If we can include past England players, may I suggest Michael Ricketts and Geoff Thomas..... 
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Black can man
10,977 posts
37 months
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tonker said: Gerrard would. Terry would be in any of those teams - he's at least as good as what they have. And Cole is the equivalent of Lahm, who is supposedly the best left back on the planet. Rooney would be in those teams as much as their usual players. Ferdinand would have been, 8 years ago. If we can include past England players, may I suggest Michael Ricketts and Geoff Thomas..... May as well put Milner in too if you think this lot above are good enough
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