Scottish Football - Why?

[deevlash]

Devilstreak said:

This comes up all the time. But why should they get a pass into the Premier League? Why not the Championship? League 1/2 and work their way up?

And do you think the likes of the London teams would want to travel god knows how many miles to Scotland at the weekend?

I don't think it will ever happen.

You do know we have aeroplanes and airports in Scotland right? The US teams seem to cope with going from LA to New York, I'm sure the poor loves in the premiership could manage an extra 200 miles. There would be sod all away tickets for the fans either, Rangers and Celtic tend to sell out their stadiums anyway.

The reason theyd go into the premiership is also the reason theyd get into the English league in the first place. Sky TV want them in for the ratings. It'll never happen anyway.

[deevlash]

Torquey said:

Devilstreak said:

Plus I think they secretly quite like having no competition for the European places,

And they know they wouldnt last 5 mins in the premier league thus getting zero recognition after 2 or 3 seasons.

At first yes, but the Old Firm plus Sky TV cash would make them very big within a few years. Anyone who thinks the likes of Birmingham City would be bigger teams than Rangers and Celtic after 2 or 3 seasons is just a tool.

[chrisj_abz]

The whole Rangers & Celtic thing to the premiership is purely down to money, the Old Firm see the millions awash in the premiership and want a slice of it.

As an Aberdeen fan I have absolutely no interest in seeing my team playing in the English leagues or in a British league.

What needs to happen up here is a complete overhaul of the game, we currently have 3 seperate governing bodies (SFA, SPL and SFL) and the SPL is set up mostly to benefit two clubs with the vast majority of money from our tv deal given to the top two clubs.

The argument for that is that Rangers and Celtic are on tv most of the time but without the rest of the league to play, I cant see 36 Old firm games being much of an interest for Sky or ESPN.

[North West Tom]

My mate's a Celtic fan, and he thinks that if Celtic were in the Prem, they'd get into the Champions League.

They'd be lucky to finish above mid-table. Why don't they stay up there where they're enough guaranteed a CL spot?

[Russ35]

North West Tom said:

My mate's a Celtic fan, and he thinks that if Celtic were in the Prem, they'd get into the Champions League.

They'd be lucky to finish above mid-table. Why don't they stay up there where they're enough guaranteed a CL spot?

Don't forget the vast difference in TV money between the PL and SPL. You make a minimum of £40m for just being in the PL where as in the SPL Rangers and Celtic only make a few million. The money they make from being in CL is still less than what they would make just being in the PL.

Last year Portsmouth made £31m from the PL for finishing bottom + their normal income source (tickets, shirts etc)
http://www.sportingintelligence.com/2010/05/16/the...

[Dracoro]

I think it's quite impractical, purely in geographical terms.

Many clubs (and fans) aren't rich to to travel great distances every game isn't feasible. Look at a map of the UK, there's quite a gulf in distance between most English clubs and the Scottish ones. There are some clubs "inbetween" (carlisle, tyneside etc.)

Imagine a team like St Johnstone, Aberdeen, Dundee etc. having to play Brighton, Pompey, Southampton, Plymouth, Exeter, Bournemouth and so on. That's a mega distance for both sides. It' enough of a journey to go from even the London clubs (Palace, Charlton, Brentford and so on) to northern clubs to your Hulls, Yorks, Bradfords etc.

It would only end up costing clubs more money and half the games they would hardly have any away fans. It would only work for Celtic and Rangers but even they probably wouldn't want to be that much on the road every other week and nor would other clubs, however large.

Of course there's an inbalance in the Scottish Premier but that's the way it is. The most "workable" (not that it is) would be for some of the further northern clubs to play in Scotland, e.g. Newcastle, Sunderland, Middlesborough, Carlisle, Hartlepool and so on.

Edited by Dracoro on Thursday 28th October 19:05

[anonymous-user]

North West Tom said:

My mate's a Celtic fan, and he thinks that if Celtic were in the Prem, they'd get into the Champions League.

They'd be lucky to finish above mid-table. Why don't they stay up there where they're enough guaranteed a CL spot?

About £40 million extra in SKY TV money.
A chance to play quality opposition.
An opportunity to buy better players.

Edited by el stovey on Thursday 28th October 19:31

[Olivera]

Dracoro said:

I think it's quite impractical, purely in geographical terms.

Many clubs (and fans) aren't rich to to travel great distances every game isn't feasible. Look at a map of the UK, there's quite a gulf in distance between most English clubs and the Scottish ones. There are some clubs "inbetween" (carlisle, tyneside etc.)

...

Edited by Dracoro on Thursday 28th October 19:05

Eh? Theres little in it distance wise from London to Glasgow and London to Newcastle (or anywhere else in the North East). The hardcore away fans would still travel, and it makes little difference to the teams as they will fly anyway. And yes Glasgow does have an airport, in fact 2 of

The Old Firm would certainly love to play in the Premiership, but its unlikely to ever be allowed by FIFA, despite other anomalies such as Cardiff playing in the English leagues. I reckon they would be totally outclassed if it were to happen, but given a few years and Sky TV money they would be up there with the big guns.

[deevlash]

Olivera said:

Dracoro said:

I think it's quite impractical, purely in geographical terms.

Many clubs (and fans) aren't rich to to travel great distances every game isn't feasible. Look at a map of the UK, there's quite a gulf in distance between most English clubs and the Scottish ones. There are some clubs "inbetween" (carlisle, tyneside etc.)

...

Edited by Dracoro on Thursday 28th October 19:05

Eh? Theres little in it distance wise from London to Glasgow and London to Newcastle (or anywhere else in the North East). The hardcore away fans would still travel, and it makes little difference to the teams as they will fly anyway. And yes Glasgow does have an airport, in fact 2 of

The Old Firm would certainly love to play in the Premiership, but its unlikely to ever be allowed by FIFA, despite other anomalies such as Cardiff playing in the English leagues. I reckon they would be totally outclassed if it were to happen, but given a few years and Sky TV money they would be up there with the big guns.

Aberdeen has an airport too, I do think it's funny how southernerns think that if you leave London its all barren wastelands filled with Yokels.

[GG89]

I'm a rangers fan and I would quite like the old firm to join the premier league or
Lower league and build our way up. Within 5 - 10 years IMO they would be easily in the last quarter the premiership table with the massive fan base of both teams and the money injection from being in the premiership. Doubt it will ever happen due to the impracticality of it and the fact it would fk up the rest of the Scottish football.

Edited by GG89 on Thursday 28th October 19:55

[GG89]

Torquey said:

Devilstreak said:

Plus I think they secretly quite like having no competition for the European places,

And they know they wouldnt last 5 mins in the premier league thus getting zero recognition after 2 or 3 seasons.

Just to add, you sir are an utter tool. What do you expect would be the case? that the old firm would keep the current teams they have and try and compete?

the difference in sponsorship money in the PL compared to the SPL is absolutely huge.

[Dan_1981]

GG89 said:

Torquey said:

Devilstreak said:

Plus I think they secretly quite like having no competition for the European places,

And they know they wouldnt last 5 mins in the premier league thus getting zero recognition after 2 or 3 seasons.

Just to add, you sir are an utter tool. What do you expect would be the case? that the old firm would keep the current teams they have and try and compete?

the difference in sponsorship money in the PL compared to the SPL is absolutely huge.

Yes it is. But the old firm would have to get to the Premiership before they could take advantage of all that lovely money.

I'm sure Chesterfield could have a go at staying in the Premiership if someone magically floated them into it.

[Dan_1981]

deevlash said:

Olivera said:

Dracoro said:

I think it's quite impractical, purely in geographical terms.

Many clubs (and fans) aren't rich to to travel great distances every game isn't feasible. Look at a map of the UK, there's quite a gulf in distance between most English clubs and the Scottish ones. There are some clubs "inbetween" (carlisle, tyneside etc.)

...

Edited by Dracoro on Thursday 28th October 19:05

Eh? Theres little in it distance wise from London to Glasgow and London to Newcastle (or anywhere else in the North East). The hardcore away fans would still travel, and it makes little difference to the teams as they will fly anyway. And yes Glasgow does have an airport, in fact 2 of

The Old Firm would certainly love to play in the Premiership, but its unlikely to ever be allowed by FIFA, despite other anomalies such as Cardiff playing in the English leagues. I reckon they would be totally outclassed if it were to happen, but given a few years and Sky TV money they would be up there with the big guns.

Aberdeen has an airport too, I do think it's funny how southernerns think that if you leave London its all barren wastelands filled with Yokels.

The top teams may very well be able to fly 18 players, numerous physios, coaches and various other staff on private jets all over the country..... Plymouth Argyle on the other hand might not have the funds to do it.

Infact I'd be surpised if many of the clubs outside the premiership had the funds to fly teams around the country. Because as per my previous post if Rangers and Celtic were let into the English leagues they'd have to start outside the Premiership, and so would have to be playing teams who had to do a 15 hour coach trip from the south coast.

[anonymous-user]

Dan_1981 said:

GG89 said:

Torquey said:

Devilstreak said:

Plus I think they secretly quite like having no competition for the European places,

And they know they wouldnt last 5 mins in the premier league thus getting zero recognition after 2 or 3 seasons.

Just to add, you sir are an utter tool. What do you expect would be the case? that the old firm would keep the current teams they have and try and compete?

the difference in sponsorship money in the PL compared to the SPL is absolutely huge.

Yes it is. But the old firm would have to get to the Premiership before they could take advantage of all that lovely money.

I'm sure Chesterfield could have a go at staying in the Premiership if someone magically floated them into it.

Chesterfield would be relegated straight away.

Rangers and Celtic are both massive clubs. They could survive in the premiership right now. Another 40 million would make them solid Premiership sides.

[Hugo a Gogo]

Dan_1981 said:

GG89 said:

Torquey said:

Devilstreak said:

Plus I think they secretly quite like having no competition for the European places,

And they know they wouldnt last 5 mins in the premier league thus getting zero recognition after 2 or 3 seasons.

Just to add, you sir are an utter tool. What do you expect would be the case? that the old firm would keep the current teams they have and try and compete?

the difference in sponsorship money in the PL compared to the SPL is absolutely huge.

Yes it is. But the old firm would have to get to the Premiership before they could take advantage of all that lovely money.

I'm sure Chesterfield could have a go at staying in the Premiership if someone magically floated them into it.

Chesterfield have how many fans going to their stadium every week or buying replica shirts every year?

[Hawmaws]

The other thing to consider is the old firm's "ex-pat" support. Rangers and Celtic probably have more hard-core fans living near London than most London clubs. They would have no trouble at all to fill their travelling allocation in most English grounds.

[Dracoro]

Olivera said:

Dracoro said:

I think it's quite impractical, purely in geographical terms.

Many clubs (and fans) aren't rich to to travel great distances every game isn't feasible. Look at a map of the UK, there's quite a gulf in distance between most English clubs and the Scottish ones. There are some clubs "inbetween" (carlisle, tyneside etc.)

...

Eh? Theres little in it distance wise from London to Glasgow and London to Newcastle (or anywhere else in the North East). The hardcore away fans would still travel, and it makes little difference to the teams as they will fly anyway. And yes Glasgow does have an airport, in fact 2 of

London to Newcastle is 250 miles. It's 350 to Glasgow, 400 to Aberdeen. That's hardly "little in it". The straw that breaks the camels back has gotta be somewhere. I suspect it's bad enough going to Newcastle (and vice versa), let alone another 100 or 150 miles.

Note that all the miles quotes are as the crow flies, add 10/20% for the real distances.

Many footy fans travel by coach. How does the cost differ between getting a coach or a plane. Is train much different?

Say if Arsenal are playing Rangers and have 5/10k fans wanting to travel up on a saturday morning. A jumbo is what 500 odd seats, thats 20 jumbos needing to fly from one of the London airports to Glasgow. And vice versa, many times a season. The one off game, yes (people travel different ways, the night before etc.) but many many times a season, I'm not so sure.

As I say, I'm sure it "could" sort of work for Rangers & Celtic, but not really for the rest of the division and not for the poorer England clubs that would have little or no away support in the Scotland games.

Edited by Dracoro on Thursday 28th October 21:51

[Dracoro]

deevlash said:

Olivera said:

Dracoro said:

I think it's quite impractical, purely in geographical terms.

Many clubs (and fans) aren't rich to to travel great distances every game isn't feasible. Look at a map of the UK, there's quite a gulf in distance between most English clubs and the Scottish ones. There are some clubs "inbetween" (carlisle, tyneside etc.)

...

Edited by Dracoro on Thursday 28th October 19:05

Eh? Theres little in it distance wise from London to Glasgow and London to Newcastle (or anywhere else in the North East). The hardcore away fans would still travel, and it makes little difference to the teams as they will fly anyway. And yes Glasgow does have an airport, in fact 2 of

The Old Firm would certainly love to play in the Premiership, but its unlikely to ever be allowed by FIFA, despite other anomalies such as Cardiff playing in the English leagues. I reckon they would be totally outclassed if it were to happen, but given a few years and Sky TV money they would be up there with the big guns.

Aberdeen has an airport too, I do think it's funny how southernerns think that if you leave London its all barren wastelands filled with Yokels.

No-one said anything about "barren wastelands". I could equally say all those north of London evidently have chips on shoulders about the north/south thing

Anyway, who said I was a southerner?

[Smart Mart]

Then there's the next question, where do you put them when they are admitted?

As a supporter of a League One team who have fought for 115 years to get to this (our highest ever level), I'd feel very aggreived whatever size the club, that someone just got parachuted in ahead of us.

Put them in the Blue Square Premier and the Blue Square South & North would be unhappy. Any lower and it wouldn't really be worth them doing it.

The best idea I've seen is for Scotland to revert to two divisions and have a big promotion/relegation turnover, maybe even bottom six and top six swap over, possibly with playoffs. This would give a fair amount of the Div 2 teams a chance to reach the Div 1 each season.

[Dracoro]

As to where you would put them, I think the solution would be (reasonably) simple.

We all know "roughly" how good the team are, so have a play off. e.g. 3 teams down from PL, top 1 from Championship and the next 2 join Rangers & Celtic in the play offs.

Edited by Dracoro on Thursday 28th October 22:15